The Myths of “Ending Demand” for Prostitution

[susi]

The Myths of “Ending Demand” for Prostitution

Conservative MP Joy Smith’s public campaign to criminalize the purchase of sexual services reflects a troubling global campaign to “end demand” for prostitution. “End demand” campaigns are premised on an absolutist view of prostitution as exploitation, wherein all sex workers are cast as victims, and all clients as perpetrators. This panel will address the harmful consequences of “end demand” strategies, with a view to advancing alternative social and legal policies that can make a difference for socially marginalized workers in and beyond the sex industry.

An interdisciplinary panel discussion with:



Susan Davis

Current sex worker of 25 years; Development coordinator, West Coast cooperative of Sex Industry Professionals, Vancouver



Kara Gillies

Representative, Maggie’s: Toronto Sex Workers Action Project



Ummni Khan

Assistant Professor, Department of Law, Carleton University



Emilie Laliberte

Director-General, Chez Stella, l’aime de Maimie, Montréal



Emily van der Meulen

Assistant Professor, Dept. of Criminal Justice& Criminology, Ryerson University



Moderated by Lisa Kelly, S.J.D. Candidate, Harvard Law School

Introduction by Rebecca Cook, University of Toronto, Faculty of Law

Thursday, Oct. 20, 2011,

4:30-6:00pm

Moot Court Room, Flavelle House

University of Toronto, Faculty of Law

78 Queen’s Park, Toronto, Ontario



Sponsored by:The International Reproductive and Sexual Health Law Programme, Faculty of Law, University of Toronto (reprohealth.law@utoronto.ca).​

 

[Monet]

no client representatives?

 

[shyboy123]

Can you imagine if WIVES and GF's had to supply all the sex their husbands and boyfriends wanted??

They'd be calling SP's on their SO's behalf!

Haha Ms Sarah that was brilliant

 

[susi]

no client representatives?

i absolutely agree, once again people discussing another group without that group present. i will be making a statement about it in my opening remarks. as sex workers we know the consequences of exclusion and i hope to adress that.

on a higher note, there is a project underway known as the "sex work policy project" and will be engaging workers, staff, business owners, consumers, police, city staff and greater systems that interact with sex workers all across canada so there will be a chance for consumers to be included there. there is also a larger project amping up related to indoor sex work and will include consumers, workers, business owners and staff as well.

i realize it has been a long time coming but the john's voice research through sfu has gone a long way to bolster support for inclusion of consumers and it seems like that it finally starting to play out in real tangible ways.

rest assured, i have your backs and have been pushing for years along these lines and will not ease up. i know it's one thing for a woman to speak on your behalf and another thing altogether to hear from you directly.

there is alot of risk attached to being out of the closet as a consumer. we are working to ensure that it's confidential and safe for people to take part and hope that our being part of the planning process along with john's voice researchers will ensure everyone can have their say.

cheers! love susie

 

[storm rider]

Have at em Susi :thumb:

SR

 

[shyboy123]

there is alot of risk attached to being out of the closet as a consumer. we are working to ensure that it's confidential and safe for people to take part and hope that our being part of the planning process along with john's voice researchers will ensure everyone can have their say.

cheers! love susie

Way to go Susi,

I've always really felt that it is a shame this whole industry is so controversial. I wish that it could be setup and judged in a two-tier system like the pharmacy business. Well maybe not like the pharmacy business, but in a way that removed the stigma of hookers and johns (I detest both those terms) and put into the perspective of two consenting adults. There will always be the underbelly of this biz with pimps, violence, underage or exploited girls, drugs etc. and I really wish it could be divided up so that the whole lot was not judged only by the bad elements.

I don't think it will ever be socially accepted like a man going to a chiropractor for sore back or a BJ with the same lack of judgement, or a girl working as a barrista or giving massages with happy ending with no concerns - But it sure would be great if there was a bit more a legitimate component to it so that MP's were not always raided or all this militant conservatives trying to make it their life's work to shut down buying and selling sex. It's the world's oldest profession, it's not going to go away because of some legislation. That's pretty narrow minded. These groups should focus on the bad elements, and work with the more up to snuff parts of the biz to help girls that want help, and not make life miserable for everyone.

 

[westcoast555]

Way to go Susi,

I've always really felt that it is a shame this whole industry is so controversial. I wish that it could be setup and judged in a two-tier system like the pharmacy business. Well maybe not like the pharmacy business, but in a way that removed the stigma of hookers and johns (I detest both those terms) and put into the perspective of two consenting adults. There will always be the underbelly of this biz with pimps, violence, underage or exploited girls, drugs etc. and I really wish it could be divided up so that the whole lot was not judged only by the bad elements.

I don't think it will ever be socially accepted like a man going to a chiropractor for sore back or a BJ with the same lack of judgement, or a girl working as a barrista or giving massages with happy ending with no concerns - But it sure would be great if there was a bit more a legitimate component to it so that MP's were not always raided or all this militant conservatives trying to make it their life's work to shut down buying and selling sex. It's the world's oldest profession, it's not going to go away because of some legislation. That's pretty narrow minded. These groups should focus on the bad elements, and work with the more up to snuff parts of the biz to help girls that want help, and not make life miserable for everyone.

Agreed.. and good for Susi for fighting this politically. Not only is it utterly futile and a waste of money and court time to try and eradicate prostitution - it is genuinely harmful to all those involved. This is important for sensible people who may not approve of prostitution to keep in mind. It's a freedom issue, it's a health issue and it's an effective law enforcement issue.

Women in the trade only get more and more marginalized by over reaching moralistic laws about what consenting adults do in private. It's very important to remember something that came up in the video susi posted a while back that featured an interview with a Swedish sex worker who was discussing their idiotic laws. She noted that in cases where there is coercion, abuse, or underage girls involved... the information given to the police frequently comes from clients. Contrary to what abolitionist, puritan ideologues will try to claim - most 'johns' are just decent, regular guys who are not abusive. They often blow the whistle on abusive situations and intervene on the girls' behalf.

The other thing that is insane is the idea that due to the success of the 'Nordic model' - prostitution has declined sharply and been more or less 'eradicated'. I assure you it's simply gone farther underground and is happening behind closed doors. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool. Men, women, sex, and money and the dynamic between them don't change.

I can't believe in this day and age we still have puritan abolitionists. And they still do their best to make life miserable for all involved.

Yes, there is some abuse and trafficking going on... if there were more legal outlets... you wouldn't have it - just like the drug trade. And if sex is done safely between consenting adults with no coercion... it's not harmful.

This Conservative MP needs to get a life. Some thing never change. We'll always have prostitution, we'll always have puritans trying to eradicate it, and they'll always fail. They will succeed in eroding people's freedoms, passing harmful and bad laws and spreading mistruth. It's up to us to stop them.

 

[Jessikaxxx]

Dear Susi,
Once again I admire your commitment and tireless involvement to pursue safe and sane conditions for us ladies and gents.
Im very thankful that youre my colleague as well as my friend.
xoxox,
jxxx

 

[the old maxx50]

Ok so why is there no representation by johns

WE all know the reality of why johns seek sex , they are varied and diverse ... and sex is not the only reason So part of there argument fall apart right there ..
and enforcement . There is know law that can restrict who a person associates with for companionship .

I am available to speak as the voice of one john .

 

[Cock Throppled]

To everyone on this board, I hope you realize and appreciate how hard Susi works on behalf of escorts and keeping prostitution safe for women employed in the industry.

I have never met a more tireless or selfless woman who sacrifices so much time, energy and income to work on behalf of men and women without asking anything in return.

Well done Susi.

 

[Umbras]

To everyone on this board, I hope you realize and appreciate how hard Susi works on behalf of escorts and keeping prostitution safe for women employed in the industry.

I have never met a more tireless or selfless woman who sacrifices so much time, energy and income to work on behalf of men and women without asking anything in return.

Well done Susi.

+1 :clap2:

 

[Bad Santa]

Once again Thank You Susi! You are a gift to us!

 

[susi]

thanks everyone!! old maxx ...pm me please, there are reporters and people standing by looking for consumers to talk to/hear from. if you are serious, i can set up some opportunities for you....? lecture out at UBC coming up too....

tommorrow the missing women's commission starts...i am the only sex worker testifying. over the years the BCCEC- one of the groups i belong too have done research and collected evidence from hundreds of male, female and trans sex workers across bc. much of this research and evidence is about police, violence and other barriers preventing workers on the street from accessing meaningful supports...exactly the focus of the commission, what exactly was it that allowed this to happen...

some of the workers who took part in our projects are now dead. in fact of the development team of the canada's first sex worker coop, 10 people, 4 are dead. it one of the hardest parts of the work i do, people dying before anything changes...it just makes it feel all the more urgent every time it happens...

i am obligated to deliver this evidence on their behalf and so did not with draw from the commission.
it's going to be a bit rough and i have been preparing for a month. honestly, i am kind of glad it's me and not workers who are still at risk on the street. the questions are brutal and extremely hard to answer even for me. people can come down and watch, there are 120 seats for spectators...

anyway, dr.lowman goes first and then me so i am told...not sure exactly when i will begin but i am assuming this week. ..wish me luck, i hope the protesters aren't mean to me...some of the feminazi's are fanatical and borderline violent towards me....ugh....at least this will mean closure for me and i can finally put those days behind me...20 years later....

love susieXXXO

 

[uncleg]

susi...........once you get a better idea of when you are appearing why not post it here. Maybe a few people will be able to make it by and at least offer some moral support.

 

[HaywoodJabloemy]

Just in case this hasn't already been mentioned somewhere on this board -- Joy Smith has, at least temporarily, backed off her proposal to make it a crime to pay for sex.
http://www.montrealgazette.com/news...trafficking+outside+Canada/5542505/story.html

... what the bill won't do is enact a Nordic model of prostitution, which views women who sell sex as victims and the men who buy sex as the criminals...

Smith's national strategy ... included going after the buyers and last July she said she intended to use her next private member's bill to do so.

It is likely if a law to charge the buyers of sex ever appears it will come from cabinet rather than the backbench, so the changes can be better supported with programs and money.

... there is a project underway known as the "sex work policy project" and will be engaging workers, staff, business owners, consumers, police, city staff and greater systems that interact with sex workers all across canada so there will be a chance for consumers to be included there. there is also a larger project amping up related to indoor sex work and will include consumers, workers, business owners and staff as well...

That sounds promising. I'm glad you're on our side. Please keep up the good work. I think it is unavoidable that the truth and reality will win in the end, no matter how eager the media in Canada sometimes seems to be to believe the liars and myth-makers like Joy Smith. And I think the tide will irreversibly turn against them as more people understand that this isn't some kind of nebulous evil to combat, but thousands of real people just earning a living like any other business.

 

[myselftheother]

Susi, and those who advocate for sex worker rights and freedoms, and safety....thank you for speaking up for us clients too. The silly idea of ending demand is like ending the demand for air and food. This is just more of the religious right and the pious who can't just live and let live and leave us out of your social norm wonderland.

Making laws of prohibition only leads to more prosecution, isolation and discrimination of those who want to have freedoms to choose for ourselves what's right for us all. Feminazi groups, religulous right groups, church ladies and those who are just wanna be righeous, please go find real problems, not imagined.

 

[HaywoodJabloemy]

... The silly idea of ending demand is like ending the demand for air and food ...

I think you may be getting at the root of the problem that exists in the minds of these people. It is what unites the two extremist strange bedfellows on the same side in this fight, the religious zealots and the misguided element of anti-sex feminists. They both seem to think sex drive (apparently the male one in particular) is not an instinct, but some kind of personality trait introduced by external evil societal forces, with the religious zealots identifying the force as Satan. I think it's the same basic idea that religious fundamentalists also use to reject evolution and accepting homosexuals. To them, people can't be evolved intelligent animals born with animal-like instincts such as sex drive, but are something completely separate and different from animals, and naturally asexual.

 

[AngelaAurora]

Has anyone seen the letter in the most recent addition of the Georgia Straight? That letter needs a good rebuttal. Also, susie if you need support at the enquiry I would be willing to attend with you.

 

[Pantherdash]

Has anyone seen the letter in the most recent addition of the Georgia Straight? That letter needs a good rebuttal. Also, susie if you need support at the enquiry I would be willing to attend with you.

Maybe if you provide a link to said letter we might provide the desired rebuttal faster than you think. Or we could also hire a private detective to find it...

Panther

 

[myselftheother]

Maybe if you provide a link to said letter we might provide the desired rebuttal faster than you think. Or we could also hire a private detective to find it...

Panther

AA has a point, someone who is eloquent and who can spell can pen an anonymous letter rebuttal to the GS.