The Future Canadian Economy

[80watts]

What do you see in the future for the Canadian economy?
I see hydrogen being more accepted and used due to the high cost of batteries which use rare earth metals. The rare earth metals mean battery production is limited.
Moving fresh water to high population areas. Fresh water can be turned into hydrogen with electricity.
Better transportation. High speed trains between Canadian cities (mega project in the making).
Electric planes.
Lightweight material. Carbon fibre, titanium, aluminum etc.
Chemistry of hydrocarbons from the oil fields using the heavy oil of the tar-sands, into useful chemicals and plastics of tomorrow.
More greenhouses on the prairies to grow veggies in winter. California is gonna be hard pushed to supply when its water is running out from lake Mead.
Big desalination plants at the ocean to supply fresh water inland for crops and hydrogen generation.
Pipelines of water and fuel to go across Canada despite the environmental disagreement of tree huggers. Money will trump the drawback of stupid reason for opposing pipelines. Another case of he who yells/pickets the most gets the stoppage of innovation.
Hydrogen made from electricity stored onsite for vehicles. whether fuel cell or ICE.
Must be supported by Canadian banks, not outside money.
The problem land right aways etc will cost trillions.

 

[Ray]

I do not see high speed trains connecting cities. Way too expensive, we don't have enough of a population to pay for it.
I also foresee our country going bankrupt. The spending levels are far beyond what is sustainable. This is not a dig at any particular political party.
I see a lot more homeless people within the next 10 years. The average worker is not being paid enough to buy or rent a property.

 

[wakka wakka]

I do not see high speed trains connecting cities. Way too expensive, we don't have enough of a population to pay for it.

That's why the Liberals want to bring in half a million immigrants per year... The future is nice for the rich, but not so nice for the poor.

 

[hsilvers]

What do you see in the future for the Canadian economy?
I see hydrogen being more accepted and used due to the high cost of batteries which use rare earth metals. The rare earth metals mean battery production is limited.
Moving fresh water to high population areas. Fresh water can be turned into hydrogen with electricity.
Better transportation. High speed trains between Canadian cities (mega project in the making).
Electric planes.
Lightweight material. Carbon fibre, titanium, aluminum etc.
Chemistry of hydrocarbons from the oil fields using the heavy oil of the tar-sands, into useful chemicals and plastics of tomorrow.
More greenhouses on the prairies to grow veggies in winter. California is gonna be hard pushed to supply when its water is running out from lake Mead.
Big desalination plants at the ocean to supply fresh water inland for crops and hydrogen generation.
Pipelines of water and fuel to go across Canada despite the environmental disagreement of tree huggers. Money will trump the drawback of stupid reason for opposing pipelines. Another case of he who yells/pickets the most gets the stoppage of innovation.
Hydrogen made from electricity stored onsite for vehicles. whether fuel cell or ICE.
Must be supported by Canadian banks, not outside money.
The problem land right aways etc will cost trillions.

I agree - there are incredible developments going worldwide in the development of what is called the Hydrogen economy and there are already a number of Canadian companies participating

 

[LLLurkJ2]

What do you see in the future for the Canadian economy?
I see hydrogen being more accepted and used due to the high cost of batteries which use rare earth metals. The rare earth metals mean battery production is limited.
Moving fresh water to high population areas. Fresh water can be turned into hydrogen with electricity.
Better transportation. High speed trains between Canadian cities (mega project in the making).
Electric planes.
Lightweight material. Carbon fibre, titanium, aluminum etc.
Chemistry of hydrocarbons from the oil fields using the heavy oil of the tar-sands, into useful chemicals and plastics of tomorrow.
More greenhouses on the prairies to grow veggies in winter. California is gonna be hard pushed to supply when its water is running out from lake Mead.
Big desalination plants at the ocean to supply fresh water inland for crops and hydrogen generation.
Pipelines of water and fuel to go across Canada despite the environmental disagreement of tree huggers. Money will trump the drawback of stupid reason for opposing pipelines. Another case of he who yells/pickets the most gets the stoppage of innovation.
Hydrogen made from electricity stored onsite for vehicles. whether fuel cell or ICE.
Must be supported by Canadian banks, not outside money.
The problem land right aways etc will cost trillions.

There is no sense making hydrogen if electricty direct can be used. It should be an electrified freight rail system, across the praries and norther n ON at least. Would cut cost of things if done right. Needs to be automated in load/unload though.

 

[Crookedmember]

An interesting take on the booming Canadian economy from Bloomberg.


Trudeau Diversified Canada's Economy Like No One Before

 

[80watts]

I don’t see hydrogen as a good plan for personal transportation. It makes sense for public transportation or delivery services where there can be a single refuelling point to minimize the number of new stations needed. Electric makes most sense for personal transportation as greater number of smaller batteries can be used (rather than the current trend of getting the longest range possible and rarely using the huge battery capacity) AND refuelling electric vehicles can be done at home or in cheap neighborhood charging stations.
Seriously, forget hydrogen for personal transport, it’s just silly.

The idea is to replace Carbon burning fuels. Electrics are a stop gap for now; due to the limited availability of raw rare earth metals and the element lithium (to make batteries). Electric vehicles can't replace all the ICE (internal combustion engines- referring to fossil fuel burning) on the road today, because there are not resources to make the batteries. Today there is not enough grid infrastructure to accommodate the amount of energy that is burned by fossil fuel ICE by vehicles on the road today. If the grid was connected enough. Eg. Canada has more connections to the states then across the provinces.

Alot of people don't like hydrogen because of the Hindenburg (it might blow up). Popular Mechanics did a article on the Hindenburg. The pictures of the burning airship were red and orange. Hydrogen burns blue. The conclusion was the burning parts were part of the epoxy glue that caused the fire. Today we have much better technology to control and hold compressed hydrogen.

It is no different from using propane vehicles. Toyota has come out with a hydrogen vehicle.

For renewable energy like solar and wind turbines, very big battery banks will be needed to store power for when solar and wind are not working. Elon Musk chose batteries for his Tesla cars because batteries were more efficient during converting (Solar to charging battery) types of energy.

The reality is that it will be a combination of both hydrogen and batteries.

Another big energy provider will be nuclear. Peoples convivence vs Peoples Fear.

 

[bmallard]

due to the limited availability of raw rare earth metals and the element lithium (to make batteries).

Rare earth metals - non-issue. Perhaps if we kept using the 1st gen batteries, but technology has improved a lot since.

"While some Toyota hybrids sold in Europe are still equipped with NiMH batteries, the vast majority of hybrid and electric vehicles today are equipped with Li-ion batteries… which do not contain rare earths."

We're making massive strides in extracting lithium from seawater, affordably.

Much to the upset of many, EVs are here to stay. Toyota is in deep trouble, they bet on a losing horse, and then doubled down. Now they're finding themselves losing customers to other manufacturers, because they're playing catchup and have no enticing EV offering.

 

[appleomac]

Toyota is in deep trouble, they bet on a losing horse, and then doubled down. Now they're finding themselves losing customers to other manufacturers, because they're playing catchup and have no enticing EV offering.

Toyota will be just fine. Their hybrids, generally, are still some of the best when it comes to fuel efficiency. And, they have their R&D hands in both hydrogen fuel cell vehicles and solid state batteries - and it's solid state batteries that's going to make EV's more palatable for those (which is still many many many people) that have range anxiety. No one can realistically predict who or what tech will be the winners or losers when it comes to EV's: EV's are still "new" and the tech when it comes to batteries are a) getting better and b) evolving. In addition to range anxiety, the average consumer (I would imagine) is hesitant on EV's simply because they don't know when the "improvement curve" will flatten. I bought a very early PHEV made by a particular car brand - not two years later, the current model year version has much greater all EV range. Now, I still have my PHEV, what that will do for my resell value I haven't a clue. But, for the average consumer their "new" PHEV/EV obsolescing rapidly is a very very real concern - considering PHEV/EV vis a vis ICE equivalents cost alot more.

 

[white Ninja]

We are living in a very interesting era .

First of all tree huggers will always win when it comes to the pipeline because we are living in the PC era & that is a very public issue , which means he who screams the loudest wins .

as far as Hydrogen as a power source goes ,
some things will never change . Meaning corporations power and money is controlled mostly my conservative /republican minded individuals , who stand to make a fuck of a lot more money by making sure everything stays the same ( Oil, Gas, Electricity etc ) until there is no more left . These are the same people who don’t give a flying fuck about the environment, it’s all about money , so good luck w that .

As far as our economy goes , for many years now, British Columbia’s biggest money making import / export has been property taxes . So BC will continue to push a developer agenda and real estate will continue to rise much faster than wages .
There is literally Zero reason for developers to build rentals anymore and the old rental buildings will continue to be knocked down to build condos , so, pretty easy to figure out the future there .

Canada as a country has always boosted tourism and trading by keeping its dollar low , don’t need to be whodini to see the future there either.

 

[Bridge]

More greenhouses on the prairies to grow veggies in winter. California is gonna be hard pushed to supply when its water is running out from lake Mead.

The US may well be demanding water from Canada. Will we supply it?

 

[JimDandy]

More greenhouses on the prairies to grow veggies in winter. California is gonna be hard pushed to supply when its water is running out from lake Mead.

The US may well be demanding water from Canada. Will we supply it?

If water shortages become bad enough in the US I could see some right wing party in the US that promised to take our water if necessary, getting into power. Just look at people like Trump and DeSantos and just how popular their right wing agenda is in their respective jurisdictions to imagine what might be possible in a future US.

JD

 

[westwoody]

NAWAPA
A plan by the US to take our water concocted in the 1950s. It’s no joke.
The Americans called it an “Alliance” but it was nothing but a plan to take our water. In return Canada got… nothing.

 

[licks2nite]

For everybody concerned about carbon. Worldwide the shipping industry produces more CO2 than all the world’s land traffic. A nuclear powered shipping industry would cut carbon over 50%. The technology exists highly developed in the US Navy. The reactors built by profit motivated civilian corporations.

 

[80watts]

More greenhouses on the prairies to grow veggies in winter. California is gonna be hard pushed to supply when its water is running out from lake Mead.

The US may well be demanding water from Canada. Will we supply it?

There was a plan to siphon off the great lakes (not a great plan). But in reality California should go into desalination plants to provide water for their crops, alleviating the need for Colorado river supply. The energy could come from the desert through wind and solar farms.

But the states are going to fuck themselves with the fracking for oil and gas. Already there are people who have gas coming out of their water wells.

 

[80watts]

For everybody concerned about carbon. Worldwide the shipping industry produces more CO2 than all the world’s land traffic. A nuclear powered shipping industry would cut carbon over 50%. The technology exists highly developed in the US Navy. The reactors built by profit motivated civilian corporations.

Although the idea of a nuclear ship for the unlimited power sits well with me; the problem with this is security of nuclear fuel, its just too mobile and easy to attack. Look how many cargo ship gets taken by pirates. Now think about organized pirates who want to get at nuclear fuel. Bear in mind the rumors of the US falling back in patrolling the sea lanes, it makes piracy more likely to happen off Somalia and around Malaysia.

There are just too many fractions around the world that mean humanity too much harm, due to their limited world view.

On the other side of the coin, corporations are all about profits, and the first thing that is cut is maintenance. And the key thing to the nuclear pile is the maintenance it needs. All you have to do is look at hotel chains and the lack of maintenance they do in order to save money to increase the profits. Go into the bowel of an hotel and you can see the lack of maintenance, dark hallways and broken plumbing fixtures. The older a ship gets the more maintenance it requires. And its not like today engineers design things to last 1000 years. No they design things to fall apart in 5-7 years , just like any car (electric or ICE) on the road today. What used to be simple car parts are now complex car parts. (eg. diode on alternator goes, so instead of replacing a 50 cent diode, you pay for a new alternator costing you 150.00). The system is rigged against itself in so many ways when you want profit.

Reactors built by profit motivated companies?? Give your head a shake, they will build it with the cheapest materials they can find and then pile you with paperwork saying that the tin they are using is way better than the strong steel that is required by science and physics.

So after 15 year or so, you have poorly maintained nuclear ships that are a security hazard at the best of times. Fucken scary...

I guess it will go the way of gold mines from Colorado, mine the gold and leave toxic waste dumps for the taxpayer to clean up. The owners make mass profits and drain the money from the companies through other companies leaving behind a shell company with no assets to help clean up the mess.

 

[Bridge]

"Pipelines of water and fuel to go across Canada despite the environmental disagreement of tree huggers. Money will trump the drawback of stupid reason for opposing pipelines. Another case of he who yells/pickets the most gets the stoppage of innovation."

The "tree huggers" might have a point even though their actions put many people's backs up. Climate change is already causing us to spend billions on cleaning up after floods, fires, and spills. The opportunity cost of this is that we could have spent a great deal more on social services, healthcare, and education.

Innovation and green innovation is important, but it allows us to sidestep our continued consumption, which is pushing us beyond the planet's ecological boundaries. Is the answer therefore to move to a sharing economy where we can consume and produce less?

Granted this has some fundamental social and political implications that push us away from neo-liberalism, but is improved wellbeing for future generations not important?

 

[overdone]

An interesting take on the booming Canadian economy from Bloomberg.


Trudeau Diversified Canada's Economy Like No One Before

lol, interesting?

more like delusional

go look at the real numbers, that actually matter, Canada/Trudeau has done nothing but make everyone poorer, much pooer

Alberta has the best GDP in Canada, it is ranked among the worst states in the US now

it's only gotten worse since 2015, the year of the Turd

investment has fled, continues too, bribery and debt is not diversification, it's moronic

it's basic math

just like with the dream of green

physics

unless you get rid of 5 billion people, mostly in China, India, where the biggest overpopulation is, where the morons from the west keep importing the
problem here to "diversify" their economies, which is complete bullshit, diversify means doing a few things well, not Noah's 2 of everything

which is what the morons in the west think

the earth can't handle more than 2-3 billion insatiable humans and be able to replenish the resources yearly

China and India aren't going to stop, been stated numerous times by their leaders, till they are consuming like fat Americans

which will never happen on SCALE with any of the delusions being mentioned here for 2-3 billion

let alone 7 plus billion

get used to being poor with idiots like Trudeau in charge

 

[80watts]

Just talking about Canada here, we do not need battery banks. We already have them, they’re called reservoirs! Major population centres in Canada all benefit from this. Hydro to A lesser extent in Toronto but they have nuclear which also crosses out battery storage as necessary here.

If we add solar to the mix that will just reduce daytime demand on the hydro stations.

Large electric batteries in Canada are a massive waste of resources and will be implemented in few edge cases.

On your comment that electric (assuming you mean for transportation) is a stop gap: wow, 100% wrong. Especially from a personal transportation perspective.

I maintain that hydrogen is a specific solution that will only be sensible for freight or public transportation. The effort to build a widespread network of hydrogen generation/distribution stations is astronomical compared to the effort required to distribute level 2/3 electric charging stations.
Besides the equipment cost also consider the real estate cost. Charging stations are looked at as amenities that businesses welcome and subsidize. Cheap and accessible.

on the other hand, hydrogen filling stations require expensive real estate AND equipment if you want to locate them for the masses to refuel. This only makes sense when you can centralize the filling station for example at a port, a distribution warehouse hub, or a bus depot etc..

Most Reservoirs in Canada do not have pump back capabilities. Meaning they can't use solar from the day to pump back water to the reservoir because they are not set up that way with a holding reservoir after the dam/generators.

Any type of manufacturing needs cheap energy. Cheap energy means abundance of energy.

In Ontario, they have all the dams in the north, but not enough transmission lines to take the power south to Toronto and the major cities in Ontario (located in the south of the province). 60% of Electrical is done by hydro in Canada. The other 40% is by nuclear, natural gas, coal, hydrocarbon fuels, wind, solar and biomass (not in order)
https://www.cer-rec.gc.ca/en/data-a...ncial-territorial-energy-profiles-canada.html

There are more electric transmission lines going to the states then going between the provinces. Canada does not really have a Canadian grid for electricity.
https://www.cer-rec.gc.ca/en/data-a...nternational-power-lines-dashboard/index.html

The problem always will come back to energy storage. If you want to eliminate all carbon (CO2 comes from burning fossil fuels); you will need nuclear, hydro, solar and wind to produce electricity. But where do you store it. Batteries. Currently the best battery is lithium ion batteries. But you are restricted by the amount of lithium in the world. Research is ongoing and there are a few hopeful types of batteries that have greater potential then lithium ion batteries. The biggest drawback to batteries in cars is charge up time. Its not as convenient as gas. Currently there is not enough lithium in the world right now to replace all the gas cars on the road. Currently there is not enough electricity generated in any country to supply all the gas cars that need replacing in those countries. So unless there are better batteries that don't use rare earth metal or lithium, there is only going to be a certain amount of electric cars on the road. Today there are just near 95% of cars that are still gasoline on the road in Canada.

https://www.metalary.com/lithium-price/
The law of supply and demand. Lithium has steadily risen in price from 2000. Well most of its is demand, some of the price increase is the availability of it.

To replace airplanes they have electric planes, which will not have the capacity of todays fuel burning planes. So what do you do to replace planes. You go with high speed trains between major cities. Montreal and Toronto are the only cities in Canada that I know have subways. Every other city in Canada has very bad public transport system, which is why people prefer cars/trucks because its more convenient.

With climate change there is no guarantee that the dams will keep filling with water. Look at the Hoover dam, there has been a drought in that basin for over 20 years and the dam being drained lower and lower every year and use went up and up for the water for irrigation in Arizona and California.

So unless a better battery then the lithium ion battery is found/made, the electric car is a stop gap for private vehicles.

The long term solution will be hydrogen. Although less energy efficient overall then electrical battery vehicles (more steps and energy losses when converting water to hydrogen using solar then solar to battery ), it is sustainable far into the future. If you make the hydrogen from water through electrolysis and not from natural gas as they do right now.

 

[80watts]

lol, interesting?

more like delusional

go look at the real numbers, that actually matter, Canada/Trudeau has done nothing but make everyone poorer, much pooer

Alberta has the best GDP in Canada, it is ranked among the worst states in the US now

it's only gotten worse since 2015, the year of the Turd

investment has fled, continues too, bribery and debt is not diversification, it's moronic

it's basic math

just like with the dream of green

physics

unless you get rid of 5 billion people, mostly in China, India, where the biggest overpopulation is, where the morons from the west keep importing the
problem here to "diversify" their economies, which is complete bullshit, diversify means doing a few things well, not Noah's 2 of everything

which is what the morons in the west think

the earth can't handle more than 2-3 billion insatiable humans and be able to replenish the resources yearly

China and India aren't going to stop, been stated numerous times by their leaders, till they are consuming like fat Americans

which will never happen on SCALE with any of the delusions being mentioned here for 2-3 billion

let alone 7 plus billion

get used to being poor with idiots like Trudeau in charge

A diversified economy is better, no one sector when it fails will bring the rest down, so your economy can still produce.
Underneath all economy is the transportation and energy demands to support the economy.

I think alot of people try to compare America to their country. Canada does not have the population, nor the capital to compete with the US economy. One reason is the natural lay of the land for America. It southern states have relative good weather for most of the year, with only its northern states that actually see snow.

Here in Canada we have to deal with weather, rain, wind, snow and cold in the winter time. Heat is a prime factor in the winter for personal homes or business which have to store merchandise.

In WW2 it was the India economy which brought the British a Victory in WW2. The very fact everyone thinks its was America's economic might that won the war is wrong. India will be the next big economy after China, if China doesn't collapse in the next 15 years due to its rapid growth in the last 20 years. Alot will have to do with young people able to take over the economy. Like the west China is rapidly aging out its workforce.

Yes Canada is encouraging immigration but it wants younger people who will have young families. The baby boomers are all retired in the next 10-15 years. You need someone to wipe their asses in the old folks homes... besides working the economy.
Canada economy is mostly resourced based. Its diversity comes from the big cities and some manufacturing. Ontario used to manufacture cars (autopac) but most of that went away by 2000. Lots of manufacturing has been lost to Mexico, (cheaper labour), especially car parts. There has been a big loss of heavy industrial manufacturing (ships and car and trains) since the late 60s.

A big thing will to tie the provinces to work together, maintain build highways, high speed trains/transportation, and public transportation. Build plastic & chemical factories using crude oil from the oil sands. Where today most of the tar sands is exported just as a raw resources and comes back as finished goods (costing Canadians more). The provinces use to be littered with pulp and paper plants (stinks to high heaven), where now very few operate today. Might have to do with the amount of clearcutting done in the last 30 years. Yes Canada needs sustainable forest and practice like the Scandinavian countries do.

Profits from the oil sands, Albernia should go to the future of Canadians by saving that money, not immediately spending the capital now.

The only way 5 billion are gonna die is by war. War is not good, and starving them is inhumane. If you redistributed the wealth of nations and persons it could feed and clothe over 10 billion adequately. Its just that we in the west don't rob from the rich and give to the poor. And all the laws were designed by the rich to keep them rich. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer.... oh and you have to pay off the politicians otherwise you will loose your fortune and you get taxed to death. See that palace (Casa Loma?) in Toronto for details....

Something to think about every religion and country has its rules about being a good ethical person. But these laws/rules go out the window when you deal with money....