The evil Bogeyman that is Climate Change

storm rider

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Dec 6, 2008
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Sadly, that's what the right wing in North America has become. Poorly educated folks who distrust scientists and really anyone with an education.

They get all of their information from youtube, conspiracy sites and Sean Hannity, and just keep regurgitating that crap into their crazy echo chamber.

In-between, they nominate ignoramuses like Trump, Scheer and Kenney to lead them, because they figure the less education one has, the smarter he must be.

Next, they'll bring up the climategate canard.

If they ever need heart surgery, maybe they should get some guy with a youtube video to perform it.
Well good for you for feeding off the Socialist koolaid you have been spoon fed all of your life.....from when you went through the education system and got socially engineered.....good on you for giving up independant thought....being free of the ravages of acutally thinking about something must be nice.

Will ANY tax actually lower emissions?Did the Air Care program introduced in the Lower Mainland actually "clean the air"?......it is a solid FUCK NO to both of those questions because people still drive shit cars because they cant afford better ones and they also have to foolishly heat their homes in winter as well as selfishly use hot water to bathe in each day or do laundry or the dishes.

With regards to your referrence to right wing politicians .....well currently in Alberta I would HAPPILY choose a DRUNKEN and DEMENTED Ralph Klein over a Sober and Sane Rachel Notley......under the former Alberta would not have added 40,000+ public sector unionized government workers when going through the worst downturn since the Lieberal inflicted recession DUE to the NEP......the NDP does that though and piles on the spending and just adds to DEBT....after all they dont have to pay for it and they dont care....tis the way of Socialism.

SR
 

clu

Active member
Oct 3, 2010
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Well good for you for feeding off the Socialist koolaid you have been spoon fed all of your life.....from when you went through the education system and got socially engineered.....good on you for giving up independant thought....being free of the ravages of acutally thinking about something must be nice.
50 people say they see John Doe shoot Jack Smith in broad daylight, but one person says "no, he was with me all day" and you pride yourself as a "free thinker" and not a sheep because you believe that alibi?

Educated people created this world of technology and comfort you live in. Give them a little credit for figuring out things you likely would not. If you think learning math and logic is brainwashing then I think I see your problem. The fundamental basis of science is to keep an open mind and accept the results before your eyes even if you want it not to be true.

And even if every dollar of "carbon tax" was used to pay for politicians' Vegas getaways it'd make it a waste and them hypocrites for sure, but it still doesn't invalidate the overwhelming data that man made climate change is happening and has pushed things beyond any historically stable equilibrium.
 

Ray

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Dec 21, 2005
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from when you went through the education system and got socially engineered.....good on you for giving up independant thought....being free of the ravages of acutally thinking about something must be nice.
Are you insinuating you never made it through school? Because that would certainly explain a lot.
 

Quarter Mile'r

Injected and Blown
May 17, 2005
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With regards to your referrence to right wing politicians .....well currently in Alberta I would HAPPILY choose a DRUNKEN and DEMENTED Ralph Klein over a Sober and Sane Rachel Notley......under the former Alberta would not have added 40,000+ public sector unionized government workers when going through the worst downturn since the Lieberal inflicted recession DUE to the NEP......the NDP does that though and piles on the spending and just adds to DEBT....after all they dont have to pay for it and they dont care....tis the way of Socialism.

SR
Those same unionized jobs you refer to will still be there when your beloved right wing commi upc's come back to power.

Then what SR? You going to blame "your" buddies for not getting rid of them?
Those same folks you so love SR, what have they done for you lately, that is when they were in power.
DId they knock on your door and give you a tax break for a few measely dollars just to con your ass into
voting for them. Cuz if you haven't been "socially" educated then you are the fools, fool for believing their bullshit
and are guiltiest of all for taking that carrot that is dangled in front of your nose.

Did your taxes go up significantly cuz Notley's running the show? I doubt it's any worse than when
your buddies were in power. The only thing about the Klein era that kept him shitfaced and stupid is he
didn't give a shit either and was rolling in the tax revenue made from the high price of oil.

So I suppose that money should still be there to afford those 40,000 plus union jobs you say Notley added into
the work place. Or did that money "magically disappear so that you can call it a burden on the tax payer.
I doubt she would do that if the money wasn't there to pay for those jobs or she would have blatantly
committed political suicide. My suspicion is that all that money was wasted in one way or another like
Progressive cons usually do.............pay off their favourite buddy for favours rendered.
Instead of creating jobs with it. :rolleyes:


Wise up Jack, since when did the Ralph Klein's of history not add to the DEBT either.



.......................QM'r
 

overdone

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Apr 26, 2007
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Overdone, crookedmember is correct, BC has reduced its GHG emissions.

You are simply looking at gasoline and diesel sales, not carbon footprint.
no, they haven't

the Sierra Club disagree

https://sierraclub.bc.ca/bcs-greenhouse-gas-emissions-risen-four-of-last-five-years/

"The provincial government quietly updated its greenhouse gas inventory on the eve of the December holiday season, showing that emissions were higher in 2015 than in 2010 and have risen in four of the last five years."

or are they crackpots too?
 

FreeG

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Dec 25, 2015
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I guess you are not aware of "Cimate Gate" when tens of thousands of emails were leaked that exposed that a vast majority of "Climate Scientists" colluded with each other to falsify data/omit data and act togeather to discredit any other scientists who voiced discontent or were skeptical of the findings and thusly got labelled as a "Denier" which is pretty much akin to being called a "Heretic" during the Spanish Inquisition.

During the Middle Ages warming period CO2 levels were 8000 PPM....currently the planet sits at less than 400 PPM and that is after the Industrial Revolution......and a very large part of the world has not gotten the benefits of the Industrial Revolution.

When Climate Gate happened and the charlatans were exposed it was called "Global Warming".....now it is called "Climate Change"....and it is a sham.

Canadians will get hit with a National carbon tax and it will rise to $50 a ton 3 years AFTER the results of the next Federal election and at the same time this Carbon Tax will NOT lower emissions and Canada will not reach the Paris Climate agreement targets......one of the most IMPORTANT questions that needs to be asked of the incumbant Federal government....of the selfie king feminist is "Will your government spend tax payer money to buy carbon emission credits from other countries to meet Canada's climate change goals?"......and good fucking luck getting a yes/no answer on that question.....it would be dodged with the usual Lieberal rhetoric that is wordy and fancy and answers jack shit.

SR
Ray already provided the debunk on "Climate Gate". I read through some of the emails - the ones I read were simply frustrated musings of a researcher trying to model data that had a lot of noise and errors. Which is pretty much what EVERY researcher has to do when trying to model real-world data. NOTHING EXACTLY matches a mathematical model... but those models are STILL extremely useful to predict approximately what will happen.

Take something simple like steel. (great stuff, steel - strong, highly recycleable, comparatively easy to mine/manufacture/weld) Now, at what pressure will a bar of steel permanently deform? You could do it experimentally, but how about something like a bridge or building? You have to model the interactions of all that steel (and concrete, etc) to approximate the loads the building can withstand, then add a safety factor, because steel varies from mill run to mill run, and even in a single run, the structures can vary and you'll never know EXACTLY when that steel will fail.

Same with climate modeling - the average temp isn't going to rise EXACTLY as predicted, but the modeling provides a good approximation of what it will do over time.

"Global Warming" vs "Climate Change" - Climate change is a FAR more accurate term. Not EVERY place will permanently warm, not every place will suffer. But on the whole, the avg temp of the world is expected to rise. Most alarmingly, the poles are expected to warm the most, which melts the ice and causes seawater change. If you live in Alberta, you're lucky and this won't affect you. If you're one of the 60-70% of the world population that lives w/in 100mi of the coastlines, you will be affected.

CO2 levels at 8000ppm in the Middle Ages? 20x's current levels? C'mon man, does that even make sense? When you read a value like that, you have to be skeptical. In my opinion, EVERYONE should be a skeptic. Yes, we should question how/why we think the climate will change, how the chemistry & environment works (its amazing how many smart people I run into that don't understand why CO2 causes warming, or that methane has an even greater effect, so Sybian try not to let your cows fart so much, k? Thx... :) Being a skeptic means you have to dig a little and do some research. So feel free to watch Youtube vids, but question what they're saying just as much as you question what 1000's of scientists are saying.
Most animosity towards skeptical scientists come down to (in my opinion) ego and poor workmanship, which are traits inherent in every trade and have existed between very smart scientists for 100's of years. So anytime you see scientists bashing each other, try to see thru the ego & workmanship to get to the root.

As I've written before, its not the climate change itself that's of concern, its the RATE at which its occurring. Modern mankind has existed for 1000's of years in RELATIVELY stable environment. Some places have turned to desert (like places in Iraq that were the starting area of large societies), some have turned to forest, some have been swallowed up by ice, some not. Our current, modern society relies on a pretty stable environment so everyone can have food and we don't have too many natural disasters that further suck away money that doesn't exist. As that environment changes more & more rapidly and unpredicabtly, it adds further challenge to society and further risk of a major calamity causing a breakdown.

As others have stated ("follow the money"), many opponents to Climate Change (and the means to slow it down) seem to me to be more protective of their status and way of life. But I see it the other way - introducing various means to slow down Climate Change provides new opportunities to industry and innovation. I don't think too many people currently lament the demise of horse-drawn carriages in 2018, but I'm sure records would reflect a lot more resistance in 1918. Similarly, in 50+ years time, people may look back and wonder why anyone would fight this.
 

sybian

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Dec 23, 2014
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My cows don't fart....they're much to polite.
I've seen the social media bullshit about methane produced by livestock....yet nobody talks about the billions of pounds of methane created by garbage dumps...
To me, there is a difference between gases produced from natural sources...and the ones produced from not so natural.
Food as a whole must be produced, and will create a footprint of some kind....yet comparing it to a canyon filled up with human waste ,that will decompose for hundreds of years....organic matter, mixing with plastics, acids, solvents, and whatever else, becoming a toxic nightmare.
Fantastic post FreeG....we all want to live in this century, and want clean water, and soils.....there is no easy answer.
 

80watts

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May 20, 2004
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The 2 stories on the Koch brothers. So the real reason they are in the climate denial is so that they can become richer. Richer though not following environmental rules to make their products. After all, trying to clean up pollution they made should be someones else's problem. So it doesn't cost them money to clean up, so they make more profit....

Those 2 idiots and their offspring should be made to live in the toxic waste dumps they create. After all they can afford to have the doctors treat the cancer that they will eventually get from those toxic waste dumps.

Well maybe Karma will get them or some ISIS terrorist.

Sometimes I think there should be a law for owners and politicians to spend time breathing the air that come out of smokestacks and bathe downstream in the waters of industrial plants.....

But is the same old story over and over again, industrialists just pick up and move the factory to another place, letting the locals deal with the toxic waste dump that was left behind. And they still keep making money.. Eventually there will be no place on earth to go that isn't an environmental disaster, all because some rich asshole wants to make money.....

Saw a art picture with a picture of a native women with the caption that went like this "So when the last plant has died, white men will then figure out that they can't eat their money" . It was a quote by a famous Indian Chief.


Back to climate change, the Atlantic conveyor belt (brings warm water to Europe) and the jet stream have a big impact on the climate. The jet stream is doing some unusual things. And the fear for the Atlantic conveyor belt is cool fresh water (from melting ice) pushing the warm salt water down, thus sending a cooling current to Europe.
 

LM987

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Dec 28, 2015
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Based on elevations where water plant & marine fossils are found, I would assume that the water levels were MUCH higher many many years ago.
Take the New Mexico are that was underwater at some point in time.
So all that water must have come from some place ( ice at the poles melting), and gone somewhere ( current ice at the poles), so just maybe this climate change is a cyclical thing.
It could be the earth's method of cleansing a virus ( humans) from it's body, much like human's temperature goes up to kill nasty things in our bodies.

I've heard there are a few books out there that also talk about rising water levels at an alarming rate in the past.

Kinda like trying to fight what is happening in Hawaii right now. That is on a really small scale to what Mother Nature can do, and human's can't do a thing about what's happening on the Big Island. Heck that is how the other islands there were created.
 

FreeG

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Dec 25, 2015
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^ Don't forget that the continents have moved (vertically as well as across) quite a bit over millions of years. So New Mexico was likely underwater as a potential combo of that portion of North America (maybe before 2 plates pushed together to form the Rockies) being lower and less snow/ice at the poles.

People point out indications that Earth was much warmer back in the dinosaur ages. Likely true if evidence has been interpreted correctly ....but not necessarily good for us and our current way of life. I'm not talking about ski resorts either: multiple large agricultural areas rely on melting snowpack to turn into streams to water crops - when that snowpack doesn't build every year (or build as much), water has to be taken from somewhere else. Water in general WILL be distributed elsewhere if its not falling as snow in the mountains (consider: as temps rise, so does evaporation) but where it falls in the future may not be where we want it to fall, or at the rate/consistency we can handle (eg flash floods, torrential downpours, etc). This might necessitate additional damns to hold water if its not being held as snowpack, for example.
 

storm rider

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Dec 6, 2008
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Lots of replies and lots of stupidity.When it comes down to Brass Tacks the idea of Government (be it ANY Government in ANY Country and this INCLUDES the Socialist embodiament of the United Nations) that they can act as a fucking thermostat for the planet is a joke.It is sheer Liberal ARROGANCE to suggest this......that the populace on this planet can CONTROL the temperature of the planet is lunacy.

The populace on the planet has been in existence for thousands of years and only partially industrialized for the last 100 years and the planet has been around for BILLIONS of years and through ALL of that time the "climate" has changed....at one time ALL of North America was covered in a glacier that was 300 feet thick.There is a large piece of "mountain" southwest of Calgary that weighs 500 tons if not more and it was ripped apart from a mountain by a glacier and when the glacier receeded it did not have the strength to bring it back so it got left out in the prairie as a "glacial erratic".

The next step in the bullshit sham of "Climate Change" WILL be the buying/selling of "carbon credits".....Canada does not hit it's "Climate Change" goals under the Paris agreement....no problem....Canada buys "carbon credits" from Brazil or Ecuadaor or a plethora of shitty under developed countries in Afrika.....and BAM.....Canada meets it "pledge".....and sends BILLIONS of TAX PAYER money to other countries......does Canada ACTUALLY reduce it's emissions....well not in the physical sense BUT yes on paper.


SR
 

sybian

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Dec 23, 2014
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Hasn't there been at least two extinction events, that we know of?...and I'm pretty sure both have wiped out 95% of life on the planet.
Now....what was it that caused them?


Oh right.....a drastic change in climate.
 

80watts

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May 20, 2004
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You know if you talk to any one about improving the environment/climate change or doing something for the next generation like (balancing federal budgets etc) so the next generation won't have to pay for our mistakes. The first response from other people is "fuxk you" or "I'm going to do what I want to do". People still litter and throw garbage/cigarettes out of their cars on the highway so they don't stink up their cars.

A friend of mine a few weeks ago in a discussion described the human race as locusts/virus sucking up the earths supply and polluting everything and giving nothing back to nature. For us humans its take, take, take and then move on to another place where they can do it all over again. Unfortunately we have run out of places to go that are clean and unpolluted.

The carbon tax is just that a tax ( that 's a money earning enterprise for the government). Yes it might have some people stop and try to help the environment out; but their are many more who won't listen and will continue on as they are, and with the growing population of the world, the ones that try to help won't succeed. Industry back in the 90s said they will try to meet the standards, did nothing and Canada did not meet the projected goals of the Paris accord, because business/industry was only trying to make a profit. So disappointing.

Just remember as it gets hotter, more people will just turn on their ACs to cool down. Now all that does is increase the amount of heat in the local area. Because the heat is transferred outside into the hot /warm air.

So bend over and kiss your ass goodbye....

And humans should be at the top of the next species to be exterminated, not because of climate change but because of how we treat each other. Human Rights, Human dignity words only. If you think it is your right to breath clean air and drink clean water; most of that air is dirty with industrial contaminates, not enough today to harm you, but long time exposure will do you in.
 

clu

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@Storm rider: stupidity is shutting down funding for wind farms and other clean energy sources and saying you're going to bring back coal.

I don't doubt that carbon taxes etc. will be abused and misappropriated. The execution is bad, but it doesn't invalidate the premise.

And sure climate varies wildly on geological scales, but you're still not getting it: freeing this much carbon into the atmosphere is putting us on the road to the climate that triggered one of those extinction level events in the planet's history. And maybe humanity will even survive that, thanks to intellect and technology, but it's not going to be pretty and a lot of people are going to suffer. Even way more than people already suffer on this planet.

And I get it that that's fine by you. And maybe you're right that politicians are giving it lip service. To my mind though the right thing to do is hold them accountable and make them enact real, constructive change in environmental policy, and take them to task.

Hell, I'll even throw you a bone: Trudeau is being two-faced about this. How can you be progressive and yet say "yeah, but first we need more oil, you know, to hold us over." It's like the bank heist movies where the criminal just needs one more score before they can retire and go straight. Ethically dubious.
 

Vpete

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Oct 29, 2017
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Re: 80watts post

This is the correct response and I wish there was a like button.

Serisouly why are people so threatened by climate change as an issue that they have to do everything to fight the science? You can’t pick and choose when science is an acceptable for of information or not. It’s science and the best, follow a practice to provide clear and accurate data.

The data says something is not right. There are theories, those are being tested and some are being prove. Right and some wrong. Take the ozone hole- dealing with CFCs has helped shrink it since discovery in the 80s. Is that bad?

The earth will do it’s thing but thinking that 6 billion plus people who use more resources than any other species ever is not having an effect? Well that’s a theory i’d like to see some research and scientific approach on.
 

storm rider

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Dec 6, 2008
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@Storm rider: stupidity is shutting down funding for wind farms and other clean energy sources and saying you're going to bring back coal.

I don't doubt that carbon taxes etc. will be abused and misappropriated. The execution is bad, but it doesn't invalidate the premise.

And sure climate varies wildly on geological scales, but you're still not getting it: freeing this much carbon into the atmosphere is putting us on the road to the climate that triggered one of those extinction level events in the planet's history. And maybe humanity will even survive that, thanks to intellect and technology, but it's not going to be pretty and a lot of people are going to suffer. Even way more than people already suffer on this planet.

And I get it that that's fine by you. And maybe you're right that politicians are giving it lip service. To my mind though the right thing to do is hold them accountable and make them enact real, constructive change in environmental policy, and take them to task.

Hell, I'll even throw you a bone: Trudeau is being two-faced about this. How can you be progressive and yet say "yeah, but first we need more oil, you know, to hold us over." It's like the bank heist movies where the criminal just needs one more score before they can retire and go straight. Ethically dubious.
Canada's ENTIRE policy for "Climate Change" under both Trudeau and his Minister "Climate Barbie" is a fucking joke.Canada produces 2% of the evil Green House Gasses and at the same time Canada's Northern Boreal Forrest cleans up 50% of the ENTIRE emissions of the WORLD for those same EVIL emissions.

As I have said previously it is a SHAM and it will play out to a wealth transfer...from the rich countries in the west paying money to the under developed countries in the east.It has nothing to do with saving the planet.It is a wealth transfer vie a Socialist agenda via the United Nations.

SR
 

sybian

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Dec 23, 2014
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I know that this is stupid......when a large transformer is deemed out of service due to leaking oils, and pollution concerns, it isn't dismantled, or recycled.
It's replaced with new technology by BC Hydro, that is less harmful to the planet....then the old transformer, that weighs tens of tons....I'm not talking about the little guys on every hydro pole.....is sold to India, or some other country, and is put back into service....and every year gets older, and keeps polluting.
So Canada may be cleaning up its act....but it isn't helping things when it comes to the worlds pollution footprint.
This practice is said to be rampant in the industrial world, and their profit margins.
 

Amuse0ne

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Jun 29, 2015
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It's the same with asbestos laden retired ferries being shipped to Fiji and put back in service. I'm sure that they will continue to maintain a responsible monthly inspection & upkeep program of encapsulated ACM's.
 

JoeSmith6

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Nov 6, 2017
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I can't believe the environmental ignorance on the site. As Canadians you should be more environmentally aware of this global cataspophy that if we do nothing will end life on this planet as we know it. Your Priminister Justin is well aware of the situation and is taking serious steps to avert this cataspophy unlike Trump who's ignorance is just mind blowing.

California Joe
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