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The end of the Steve Irwin arguments

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Victoria Rose

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Apr 28, 2006
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For the very last time, he did not intentionally provoke the animal that killed him, and the police have determined that from watching the videotape of the entire event:

AP

Published: Tuesday, September 05, 2006

Steve Irwin was videotaped pulling a poisonous stingray barb from his chest in his last moments of life, officials said Tuesday, as tributes poured in for TV's Crocodile Hunter.

Police said there was nothing suspicious about Irwin's death and no evidence he provoked the animal. Irwin, 44, was stabbed through the heart on Monday while snorkeling with a stingray during filming of a new TV program on Australia's Great Barrier Reef.

John Stainton, Irwin's manager who was among the crew on the reef, said the fatal blow was caught on videotape, and described viewing the footage as having the "terrible" experience of watching a friend die.

"It shows that Steve came over the top of the ray and the tail came up, and spiked him here (in the chest), and he pulled it out and the next minute he's gone," Stainton told reporters in Cairns, where Irwin's body was taken for an autopsy.

Queensland state police were holding the tape as evidence for a coroner's inquiry — a standard procedure in high-profile deaths or those caused by other than natural causes.

Experts have said the stingray may have felt trapped between the cameraman and the TV star. Irwin, the popular host of Crocodile Hunter, rose to fame by getting dangerously close to crocodiles, snakes and other beasts. But Queensland Police Superintendent Michael Keating said there was no evidence Irwin threatened or intimidated the stingray, a normally placid species that only deploys its poisonous tail spines as a defense.

Stainton said Irwin was in his element in the Outback, but that he and Irwin had talked about the sea posing threats the star wasn't used to. "If ever he was going to go, we always said it was going to be the ocean," Stainton said. "On land he was agile, quick-thinking, quick-moving and the ocean puts another element there that you have no control over."

Parliament took a break from the business of running the country to pay tribute to Irwin, whose body was being flown home Tuesday from Cairns. No funeral plans were announced but state Premier Peter Beattie said Irwin would be afforded a state funeral if his family agreed.

Irwin's American wife Terri, Bindi and their son Bob, almost 3, returned late Monday from a trekking vacation in Tasmania to Australia Zoo, the wildlife park where the family lived at Beerwah in Queensland's southeast.

At the park, hundreds of people filed past the entrance laying floral bouquets and handwritten condolence messages. Khaki shirts — a trademark of Irwin — were laid out for people to sign. "Mate, you made the world a better place," read one poster left at the gate. "Steve, our hero, our legend, our wildlife warrior," read another. "I thought you were immortal. How I wish that was true," said a third.

The park opened Tuesday because it was what Irwin would have wanted, said Gail Gipp, an animal health employee.

Irwin was propelled to global fame after his TV shows, in which he regularly wrestled with crocodiles and went face-to-face with poisonous snakes and other wild animals, were shown around world on the Discovery Channel.
The network announced plans for a marathon screening of Irwin's work and a wildlife fund in his name.

"Rarely has the world embraced an animal enthusiast and conservationist as they did Steve Irwin," Discovery Networks International President Dawn McCall said in a statement.

Experts differed on the number of human deaths caused by stingrays — anywhere from three to 17 — though they agreed that they were extremely rare.

© Associated Press​

As the article states, Steve Irwin was not as experienced with creatures in the ocean as he was with those in the outback. However, stingrays are ordinarily placid creatures and deaths caused by them are rare. Irwin swam over the creature, presumedly to pass over it, not approach it directly, and it felt trapped between him and the cameraman and defended itself.

If blame is to be laid, it could just as easily have been laid with the cameraman—he was in close proximity to the animal before Steve was. In any case, neither one of them could have predicted what happened. These animals are not ordinarily known to attack like that. It could have just as easily turned on the cameraman, except the cameraman was protected by the camera.

At the time of his death, Steve Irwin was filming a series called The Ocean's Deadliest—the stingray does not fit that description. He may have planned to refer to it with a voiceover as he passed over it in the footage, as all good documentary filmmakers do, but he would have no reason to focus on it in the filming that day because the animal was not a subject for the series.

Now, for the love of God, and for the sake of all reason and respect, please let that end of the argument for once and for all because it's gotten ridiculous. Whatever he did that was controversial in his lifetime, it doesn't matter anymore. The man is dead now.

An eight-year-old girl's heart is broken, as is her mother's, and a little boy will never know his father, because he isn't even three yet. His wife always knew that what they did together was dangerous work, and that was the life she chose when she married him. They worked together as conservationists, she was by his side for many years doing that dangerous, risky work with him and she supported him in it and believed in what he was doing, but that won't make her grief any easier, nor will it make it any easier for her to help her daughter through it.

If all you can do is be ignorant of the facts and blame him for his own death because of the risks he took in his life, then kindly keep your remarks to yourself. You only make them to be mean-spirited because you can't find it in yourself to be kind.

Would you appreciate people making these remarks about you after you were gone if your death was accidental, but people cruelly assumed you deserved it because you took risks in your job when you were alive?

Many, many people do stupid things that many of us wouldn't that lead to their deaths—extreme sports, walking high wires, scaling the sides of skyscrapers, skydiving, base jumping, etc. They weren't doing those for a cause like the conservation of animals—they were doing them for the sheer thrill of risking their lives. Those are the kind of idiots who truly have a death wish, because people like that really stand for nothing—they live for nothing but the brush with death and ultimately to die prematurely, and stupidly. These are people who really do cause their own death, but nobody deserves to die and it's grossly and inhumanly disrespectful to say, or even imply such a thing!

That's not even close to what Steve Irwin was doing—he was living his dream, the way he always did. What happened was an accident—a completely unanticipated and unprovoked accident—plain and simple. He did not intentionally meddle with the animal that killed him and there is film footage to back that up.

The time has come to accept that and end the arguments for once and for all with a respectful silence.
 

Maury Beniowski

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Mar 31, 2004
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The bellyaching isn't quite over yet!

"Crikey, Steve should have left the chuffin' barb in"...

Bangkok Post said:
Yanking ray's barb hastened Irwin's death

Sydney (dpa) - Australian wildlife documentary maker Steve Irwin's final act of ripping a stingray's jagged barb from his chest cut his chances of surviving the underwater wound, experts said Wednesday.

Irwin, 44, died Monday while snorkelling on the Great Barrier Reef when the serrated, venomous tip of a stingray's barb pierced his heart.

"The more you start pulling things around, the more damage you do to yourself," Queensland marine biologist Peter Fenner told The Australian newspaper. "That's against the basic principles and could well have made things worse."

An autopsy on the famed Crocodile Hunter showed the cause of death was the injury to his heart, inflicted by the 20-centimetre-long spike, but did not establish whether it was blood loss, a heart attack or organ damage that took the life of the khaki-clad showman and millionaire zookeeper.

Bryan Fry of Melbourne University's venom research unit concurred with Fenner's view that Irwin would have been better to leave the barb in place.

"To pull the barb out would have taken a lot of force and could do more damage," Fry said.

"The serrations mean it would not slide out like a knife, and pulling it out could have caused more tissue damage. Stingray venom is rarely fatal. The poison is not leaking from the barb. It would have been in him regardless, so it would have made no difference to leave it in."

Only 17 people worldwide are known to have died after contact with stingrays. Irwin, who made his name wrestling crocodiles, is only the second Australian to die from a stingray barb.

The first Australian casualty was 12-year-old Jeff Zahmel, who succumbed to his wounds six days after a barb pierced his heart in 1988 in Queensland. In a bizarre accident, a stingray soared over the dinghy Zahmel was in, stabbing him in the chest as it went. The stingray swished its tail in alarm after brushing the bodies in the boat.

Stingrays are normally placid animals who deploy their deadly barbs only when they feel threatened or cornered. Police who have seized video of the incident said that Irwin had not provoked the stingray but swam near it.
 

hitrack

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Feb 25, 2003
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Just like that other bone head that used Tigers in his act in Vegas got mauled, so was Steves fait with a dangerous creature.

When will people learn that these creatures were not meant to be around man. They are 100% unpredictable. Cute and approachable one minute, deadly the next. They don't reason and think like humans. The stingray doesn't know your filming a shot and if I just swim around and do a couple tricks everyone will be happy and then they'll fukk off and let me be.

Never fukkin ever ever put your face to an animals face, or try to touch it when it's in a corner or has no room behind it to move.
 

OTBn

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Not everyone is as connected to celebrities as others… expressing personal sorrow over the death of a celebrity, to some, appears “out of balance” against the more significant events playing out daily across the world.

That some comments border on the vitriolic is unfortunate; however, to many, Steve Irwin was more the “clowning showman” than the “passionate conservationist/educator”. To many, the apparent risks he took seem at odds with a position as a knowledgeable expert on wildlife. Many are unable to separate the baby-crocodile incident from his other body of work….. hence, to some, he becomes less a person (dieing) and more a caricature of all that is easy to deride.

That he may not have purposely harassed the ray is not particularly significant when one considers the overall risks he took.
 

LonelyGhost

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Apr 26, 2004
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anyone who shoves their mug in front of a camera for any reason,
should not suddenly expect to go quietly into that dark night.

celebrity brings a lot of good things to the celebs, but it also
has the dark side of loss of privacy and derision from people
for whatever reason they have to act that way towards celebs.

no matter what Irwin's reasons for being a (minor) celeb,
whether he was 'acting' or just a goof, whether he was a good
person or an egotistic asswipe, his 'actions' as a 'celeb' will
probably be debated for a long time, for good or for bad.

and we have no one to blame for any of it but ourselves: just
look at how the whole 'Diana' BS is still kept alive every opportunity.

and we can 'blame' the media, but we're the consumers who can't
turn away from this latest fix.
 

visiting

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Oct 23, 2005
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Anita's Massage said:
Rose, people who object to what he did look at it from the animals' point of view. Did the animals really enjoy what he did for them? Would any of us like being surrounded by jumpy strange giants who keep yelling at us and are bothering us, running after us when we try to escape?
Animals don't know what is going on. They have instincts and when they reach the limit they snap.

Actually, I admire the animals from not getting violent more often regarding the crazy things people tend to do to them.

You can protect nature without tyrannizing the animals.

Yes, what he did was cute and entertaining, but do we really have the right to frighten animals in order to be entertained?

So do I understand you call every one with pets, a strange giant? LOL Yeah sure he bothered some, but I am sure some of his residents (or playmates) lived a longer life becuase of him.
 

dr_pepper

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Normally I could give a Rat's Ass about any celebrity's demise/mistakes/personal life/whatever. But I don't think Steve Irwin falls into the typical celebrity category. Right off the bat I'll say he was a hero to my 6 year old son. Yes, boys have lots of heros at that age. Most are hyped up media celebrities that live lives that have nothing to do with reality. They're hopping across the tv/movie screen being chased by pirates or space men. Steve actually did something useful by exposing my kids and I'm sure thousands of others to the wonders of nature. Yes he went a little over the top, but what six year old kid wants to watch a documentary on some snake with some guy droning on in the background. Steve took it and livened it up. Say what you want about his methods, but in the end his message was just as valid and just as sincere AND it got kids listening and watching. How many of you trashing the guy can say you've reached out to a couple hundred thousand kids, brightened their day, and given them some good education to boot. I'm guessing NONE.
 

hornyitalian06

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When people get too close to wild animals, accidents do happen.
 

dirtydan

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OTBn said:
Not everyone is as connected to celebrities as others… expressing personal sorrow over the death of a celebrity, to some, appears “out of balance” against the more significant events playing out daily across the world.
Too often people wrapped themselves up in grieve over a celeb's demise to the extent the death is treated like that of a family member. The lines between reality and fantasy become very blurred.

OTBn said:
That some comments border on the vitriolic is unfortunate; however, to many, Steve Irwin was more the “clowning showman” than the “passionate conservationist/educator”. To many, the apparent risks he took seem at odds with a position as a knowledgeable expert on wildlife. Many are unable to separate the baby-crocodile incident from his other body of work….. hence, to some, he becomes less a person (dieing) and more a caricature of all that is easy to deride.

Given his on-air persona it's hard to have seen Irwin as anything else than a showman. As for the baby incident, it is the most glaring of Irwin's stupid stunts. While he did apologize in a sense, but in the end attempted to justify his actions and made the incident even worse. When one does dangerous things eventually any kids are going to have to learn about it, however feeding a croc while carrying a one month old baby was sheer lunacy.

OTBn said:
That he may not have purposely harassed the ray is not particularly significant when one considers the overall risks he took.
I haven't read all of the posts in all of the threads regarding the death of Irwin, but those I have read I didn't get the sense he deliberately provoked the stingray.
 

kokanee_68

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No disrespect to Irwin but... If you play with fire..sooner or later yer gonna get burnt.
 

dr_pepper

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Methos said:
Folks. Come on! Have you ever watched this guy's show?

This guy tormented animals for fun and profit. Actual conversationists and naturalists do not tease or handle the animals they are observing. They go out of the way to have no contact with them, and no impact on their lives. He went well beyond the fold of any nature photographer and put himself in harms way time after time and did the same to his wife and kid. It was in in nearly every show he did, causing untold panic and pain to those animals he "loved".

There has always been debate on whether any wildlife can truly be observed without some sort of impact..... and following that whether we're seeing their actual behavior or some variance of it because they know we're there. True Irwin was "in their face" - but alot of the show was capturing/relocating animals that were already in harms way. What is a conservationist? How about zoos? - is there overall benefit if people can see these animals without everyone tramping over to Australia to watch them through binoculars, hop on a jeep and go on a safari, or get on a boat and dive in the water with them. What would be the impact of everyone having to see and observe these things first hand? Is it possible to do that without enormously impacting their habitiat. I don't think so. The average person doesn't just want to go see the lion - they want to be able to grab a burger and a shake while they're there as well. So a few 'roos, snakes, spiders, lizards, you name it had a camera and some guy in their face. Better that than those ecosystems be subject to thousands of so called eco tourists each year. Regardless of how eco friendly said tourists are the overall impact to the animals is much less when people aren't trampling through their back yards for a looksee. Like i said alot of the wildlife was being caught or relocated to remove from harms way anyway. His tactics may not have been perfect, everything he filmed was scrutinized by some "Body" who would oversee this activity. I don't recall any legal actions against him.

Where is your proof he did this for fun and profit. And as you said yourself "Have you ever watched this guy's SHOW" - but perhaps you also think Survivor is a Reality show as well. No one should be judging this guy unless they were there first hand seeing what was done behind the scenes and what he has done off screen.
 

CJ Tylers

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While I don't particularily approve of manhandling wild animals, you have to realize that sensational animal shows (Steve Irwin) have pretty much replaced the old trip to the zoo (namely because animal activists have shut down so many) for a good number of people.

Now, while I used to watch Wild America and other nature shows, they were hardly very exciting. It just so happened that I loved animals and that it didn't matter much to me... but then again, I wasn't raised on the 10 second sound byte that the current generation is infantuated with.

The need to teach new generations about the animals in the world is quite pressing, given their care will be in the hands of that generation soon enough. This is a world raised on video games, splashy movies and racaus antics... those old animal shows just can't compete.

Sure, he acted like a clown at times. Yes, he did manhandle the animals. However, he also brought knowledge of them to a generation that finds itself more hooked up to a game boy or computer more often than it finds itself in school studying.

If my incoveniencing a few animals he can create awareness for the rest... and thereby advance conservation... the so be it.

As to his death, I don't think there is anything more than can or needs to be said.
 

JustAGuy

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Victoria Rose said:
.... and a little boy will never know his father, because he isn't even three yet.
Well technically that might be true. But little Bob could well be scarred for life by the memory of being dangled over a crocodile by his reckless father when he was just an infant. So the years of therapy Steve Irwin's son may be looking at down the road may provide some kind of "knowledge" as pertains to dad.
 

dipitydoo

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oh for crying out loud... what is it with this pussy-scared-of-life society we live in?

Therapy this, abuse that, victim this, suffering that, depression this, trauma that... for fucks sake, get real!!

Life is full of risks and that's why society is so miserable now, nobody wants to deal with the fact that living will eventually kill you and everyone's too chicken to accept their resposability. When everything in life is supposed to be all good and enjoyable and no counterparts to that, it means we're living in a fucked up world.
 

JustAGuy

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dipitydoo said:
oh for crying out loud... what is it with this pussy-scared-of-life society we live in?

Therapy this, abuse that, victim this, suffering that, depression this, trauma that... for fucks sake, get real!!

Life is full of risks and that's why society is so miserable now, nobody wants to deal with the fact that living will eventually kill you and everyone's too chicken to accept their resposability. When everything in life is supposed to be all good and enjoyable and no counterparts to that, it means we're living in a fucked up world.
Indeed life is full of risks. I'm well aware of that. But responsible parents don't generally subject their infant children to them. Oh oh, there's that responsibility ('resposability?) thing again only this time it's the parent not acting responsibly. But I'm not a parent so really, what do I know? Maybe doing something like setting a one year old down in a tiger's cage would be seen as "character building" by some folks. :rolleyes:
 

dipitydoo

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JustAGuy said:
Indeed life is full of risks. I'm well aware of that. But responsible parents don't generally subject their infant children to them. Oh oh, there's that responsibility ('resposability?) thing again only this time it's the parent not acting responsibly. But I'm not a parent so really, what do I know? Maybe doing something like setting a one year old down in a tiger's cage would be seen as "character building" by some folks. :rolleyes:
OK JustAGuy I see your point (and thanks for the spell check, it slipped by) but I guess I took your posting like someone coming from the other extreme, you know the type of person that won't let their kid ride a bike or forces them to wear full-body padding, helmet and training wheels! :rolleyes:


I mean, I saw Steve Irwin's thing he did with his kid and the crocodile, like someone who loves motorcycles and takes the baby along for a ride. The guy was in his element with crocs, and he was so passionate about it that it clouded his judgement. I believe he was trying to be a good parent, he did mention that if his kids were not "croc savvy" then he would consider himself a bad parent! He was trying to pass the knowledge and appreciation for those animals just like his dad did to him.

The trick is not to fall into any of the extremes!
 

dipitydoo

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Anita's Massage said:
OK, then go ahead and risk your life! But don't hurt anyone, including animals in the process. Don't risk your kid growing up as an orphan and your wife becoming a widow.

There was another guy who played with grizzlies in Alaska. He and his girlfriend were eaten by them in the end. He was an idiot, talking to them, singing to them; he said they are not dangerous at all, and he paid with his life. He died a horrible death, and ended up proving the opposite of what he set out to prove.

Well, that guy was courageous and lived on the edge, and he risked nobody else's life, but his own.

Erwin exploited the animals for his own selfish purposes. People who love animals don't hurt them in any way.
Oh c'mon Anita... you have to put things in perspective. How do you know he "hurt" or "exploited" them? how do you know he was selfish? What about his conservation efforts like the Wildlife Warriors? ever heard of all the work he'd done, all the people he had helped, all the animals he saved, all the kids he educated, all the people he got involved as volunteers, all the money he put towards a cause like preserving wildlife. If you do not know what you are talking about, please refrain from making stupid comments about the poor animals who were traumatized and scarred for life because Steve Irwin handled them and caught them so they could be filmed and served as an educational tool.

Are you a strict vegan? if you're not, there's really no place for your comments.

I invite you to read up and open your eyes...
http://www.wildlifewarriors.org.au
 

Victoria Rose

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Apr 28, 2006
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Methos said:
ok fine how's this:

OH WOE IS ME! My idol has departed this mortal plane! I am so depressed and distraught, let's make his death a national freaking holiday! His shit had no discernable odor, and his piss must have tasted like fine wine! I love Steve whatshisname!
Where did any of you get the idea that the man was my idol? I don't idolize anyone.

I hadn't watched any of his shows in over a decade, and I never saw his movie. I didn't even know about the incident with his son in the croc enclosure until the reports of his death.

I just asked for you all to stop arguing endlessly about it and show some respect because he was a human being, just like all of you, but apparently none of you are mature enough to do that.

You just can't give it up!

One person posts an article that refutes every claim you've made that he provoked the animal that killed him, which has been determined by the police who viewed the film footage of his death and you still refuse to accept that. :confused:

I stayed up until 1 am Regina time writing that post and worked a full, hectic 8-hour day on less than four hours' sleep in the hope that reason, facts, and intelligence would prevail over your compulsive need to continue shitting on a dead man and his family. Guess I should have known better and just gone to bed.

There's just been so many times when I've seen so much good in so many of you, then every once in a while.... :confused:
 

souljacker

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Dec 14, 2005
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What's the big deal?

OK, I really don't understand what the big deal is here, and why so many people seem to be getting their knickers in a twist over this guy...:confused: It seems pretty clear to me that Steve Irwin's heart was in the right place with wanting to promote conservation and teach people about animals, but it also seems pretty clear to me that he was an idiot in the way he went about it. He took stupid, unneccessary risks, and it was only a matter of time before some beastie did him in.

The only thing that I find surprising is that it was a stingray that killed him (I mean, come on, a freaking stingray?!?), and that it seems to have been a freak accident, rather than a result of him provoking an animal. Bottom line: if you take stupid risks that could easily result in your death, it may be kinda sad when you die, but you really don't deserve any sympathy for it. I don't have a lot of sympathy for his widow either, since she knew what he was doing, and she encouraged his risky behavior. His kid, on the other hand, deserves sympathy.
 
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