Telling your Honey you'd like to poon... Had this conversation yet?

[tantalizeme]

Didn't mean to sound judgmental

You have changed the story half way through. If you entered the relationship with the idea/foundation of an open relationship, it's no big deal to have the side visits to SP's and your conversation shouldn't be too big a deal. If you are talking about springing SP's on a LTR where there has been monogamy for years, my comments about the dumbest idea ever heard apply. If you want realistic and accurate responses, phrase your question properly. Kind of a MASSIVE difference between the two ideas Tant. One is possible, the other a great way to get divorced.

Hey brother,

You're 100% right: there's a difference between renegotiating monogamy in a longstanding marriage vs. laying down expectations of non-monogamy soon after the start of a relationship.

Though these situations are closely enough related that my sample dialogue could apply to either, I'd be the first to admit: the challenge is much tougher in the case of a monogamy-habituated wife.

Telling the truth about your pooning proclivities may not be the best strategy.

Still, don't you think it's worth exploring how married guys could open channels of communication around this issue? Wouldn't it be better, if at all possible, to come to a mutual understanding of sexual openness rather than trying to live a lie?

Personally, I've always found it next to impossible to hide affairs from live-in GFs. I guess, most of my fellow pooners are far smarter cheaters than myself—but eventually, when the shit hits the fan, they may wish they had found a better way.

And chances are: many women feel just as stuck and frustrated in a stale marriage as many men. They would experience "sex on the side" as a liberating growth experience. So men aren't necessarily doing their wives a favour by not raising the subject.

 

[jesuschrist]

You're 100% right: there's a difference between renegotiating monogamy in a longstanding marriage vs. laying down expectations of non-monogamy soon after the start of a relationship.

Though these situations are closely enough related that my sample dialogue could apply to either, I'd be the first to admit: the challenge is much tougher in the case of a monogamy-habituated wife.

Telling the truth about your pooning proclivities may not be the best strategy.

Still, don't you think it's worth exploring how married guys could open channels of communication around this issue? Wouldn't it be better, if at all possible, to come to a mutual understanding of sexual openness rather than trying to live a lie?

Personally, I've always found it next to impossible to hide affairs from live-in GFs. I guess, most of my fellow pooners are far smarter cheaters than myself—but eventually, when the shit hits the fan, they may wish they had found a better way.

And chances are: many women feel just as stuck and frustrated in a stale marriage as many men. They would experience "sex on the side" as a liberating growth experience. So men aren't necessarily doing their wives a favour by not raising the subject.

Somehow I think you're not really approaching this the right way. If you want your SO to let you be non-monogamous (and her too), you need to engage it from her viewpoint. Here's my tips:

1) don't mentioned paid sex. The typical female view of it is very bad, she may completely lose all respect she has for you if she knew you engaged in it. Why? Because from a typical female point of view, a man that has to buy it is one who can't charm a woman into giving it - making you less of a man. Also, if you buy it, you can thus access it too easily and therefore you potentially can have too many partners to make her feel comfortable. Also, it is viewed that prostitutes carry diseases, and she may dread the thought of you sticking your dick in her after you've fucked a prostitute. The typical female also sees men who use prostitutes as misogynist abusers of women too.

2) If you want to open her up for non-monogamy, don't start with yourself. Start with her, and start with making her feel safe in her relationship with you. Make her secure. Don't lech at other women and start comparing. Make her feel that you are completely happy with sex with her and you'd never give her up for anyone else, be it sex or anything else. Start the non-monogamy with her sexual desires. Tell her you are completely satisfied but you are worried she is not satisfied and in addition you'd like to see her enjoy herself with other men - provided you are there with her.

3) Don't start with sex, start with exhibitionism. Get her to show her body to men by buying her sexy and revealing clothing to go out in. Encourage her to flash herself to men.

4) Once she has gained confidence in attracting male sexual attention, try fondling her or get her to have sex with you in front of other men. When she gets comfortable with that, allow other men to whip out their dicks while you do it. Get her to enjoy the view of that while she is having sex with you.

5) Introduce her to sex clubs where others are having sex openly. Have sex with her in front of others. Avoid physical contact, but do engage in sexy conversations with others with her.

6) Turn her out at these sex clubs to other guys. Get her to enjoy sucking cock while you fuck her. Get her to enjoy getting licked by a female while you fuck her.

7) Most of all, get her to enjoy it. Don't do anything for a looong time until she is completely comfortable and starts initiating sex in these places with other people.

I have a lot of experience in this and the world it opens up is wonderful. One of the most memorable experiences I've ever had was having my g/f in 69 with another girl while I took turns plunging it into her pussy and throat fucking the girl underneath. My g/f had tremendous fun getting her clit licked while I fucked her - I tell you, I could feel the vibrations of the girl sucking and licking her clit and alternating by licking my balls.

 

[Tugela]

Dude, he asks "Why not rather negotiate an open relationship? I guess a lot of men just can't think of the right words."

Men dont have any trouble thinking of the right words. They just know that it would be beyond stupid to speak them. Anyone in a real relationship that did not start out that way would know that, both men and women. That is simply not part of the deal. If you want to play around openly, get a divorce, because that is where the conversation that Tant thinks is so "easy" is going to lead 99% of the time.

 

[yazoo]

Dude, he asks "Why not rather negotiate an open relationship? I guess a lot of men just can't think of the right words."

Men dont have any trouble thinking of the right words. They just know that it would be beyond stupid to speak them. Anyone in a real relationship that did not start out that way would know that, both men and women. That is simply not part of the deal. If you want to play around openly, get a divorce, because that is where the conversation that Tant thinks is so "easy" is going to lead 99% of the time.

Then I guess there are a lot of 'beyond stupid' men who have successfully negotiated an open relationship. I bet that they don't feel so stupid at all. In fact the 'beyond stupid' may feel a little superior when they look at their mute colleagues who are so terrified of the frying pan that they accept a second class existence.

There's nothing wrong with starting with baby steps. Checking out waiters with your SO - "Is he your type? What about that one?" - soon she'll be returning the favour with hot waitresses, which in and of itself is a positive step. Little jokes come next. Sometimes the seed doesn't grow. Sometimes it does. But you can lead into the conversation without getting hurt.

 

[kauffman]

it seems to me that most people are in heir relationships for the wrong reason. At least in my opinion you should be able to be honest because if you cant then your partner doesnt really know you. when diod the lying start? Is it because you were trying to progect an image of yourself that wasnt real? Or was it because your partner refused to asccept parts of you that chal;lenged theor comfort zone and then forbid you to do certain things. When someone tells yo what you can and cant do in a relationship this generally doesnt lead to magical changes in a person it leads to secrecy and lying. Taking the time thouvh to find a person that truly loves and accepts you for who you are is difficult. Some find it easier to lie. I personally would rathera man visit escorts than have an affair. Mostly because there are rules and it is unlikely to interfere in the relationship. OPen relationships I think are fantastic but only if they are for the right reasons. I dont think that it should be a ticket to do anything. If you truly love and respect your partner she/he should be the priority but its unnatural to be totally monogomas. I think variety actually helps to enhance relationships and prevent them from stagnating and becoming boring and stifiling. Dealing with issues is so much easier when you have a chance to take a break from one another

 

[tantalizeme]

Thoughtful input by some of PERB's finest!

Not necessarily. I know of a few couples that started off monogamous and then both decided to swing after years/decades of being together. I don’t know “Who” initiated the conversation, but I’m pretty sure it wasn’t of those moments where they both, at the exact same time, said “Hey honey… yes... no you go first dear…”

For example, I’ve had anal sex a few times and couldn’t really say if I liked it more or less than non-anal, although sometimes I think about doing it again. That said, I don’t think I would ever “marry” a woman that let me do it. It’s just not something I would want my wife to do (no judgement to Greek givers or lovers).

Hey Lost-in-Japan,

This forum lends itself to making pretty wild statements—but your confession about not wanting to marry a woman that would let you go Greek is one of the most astonishing statements I've ever read.

Talk about a Madonna-whore complex!

I'm the opposite: I love the slut-wife type, and I'd get off on seeing my sweetie analized by a stranger at a swinger party. Unfortunately she insists, she wants to reserve that part for me.

Thanks for defending me against Tugela's snide remark that I regard women as "chattel": an accusation far more fairly leveled against guys who fool around with SPs while applying the double standard to their wives.

In all modesty, I've been told by several GFs that no other man ever treated them more like equals.

You're also right that, among couples who start out monogamous and then become swingers, one partner has to initiate an honest "how-about-including-others-in-our-sex-life" conversation. The original impetus almost always comes from the man, according to research I've read on swinger clubs.

But, as it turns out, over time women on average enjoy swinging more than men! And so they should—because even if they're built like battleships, they can usually join parties for free and have their pick of pussy-worshipping guys.

Call me optimistic, but I'd triage women into 3 groups, with respect to their open-relationship potential:

1. A good 60% are probably a lost cause.

2. About 5% don't need a lot of convincing, but are just as ready and willing to experiment sexually as the average male.

3. The remaining 35% would respond favorably to gentle but persistent encouragement to explore non-dyadic sex, provided they get ample reassurance of a partner's love.

I think getting this 3rd group of women into a sex-positive frame of mind is all about starting a reinforcing feedback loop. In the abstract, saying "Let's have sex with strangers" scares most women and puts them off.

But if you ease a potentially receptive woman step-by-step into social situations where partner exchange is modeled in plain view—the way brother JC so eloquently suggests—she's likely to warm up to the joys of variety.

And once she has had sex with other guys, she's far less likely to be paranoid about letting you have sex with SPs.

 

[Strawberry]

Yes I had this conversation, and the look on his face was priceless. He may of creamed his pants when I told him we should see escorts !! Haha
Seriously though, life is not what you deserve but what you negotiate. We all need different types of sex and intimacy in our lives and it changes as we gain life experiences and age. Don't deny yourself the pleasures in life but be reseptful in obtaining them at the same time. Seeking out a professional to help with the journey also helps one be true to there feelings and intentions of why they want to do it. I think we all understand the difference between love and sex, but for someone that has been married for a while, especially the woman, there are more emotions involved and it's harder to separate the two. But gentlemen if your SO can be logical and separate the emotions then watch out your in for some fun !!!!

 

[jesuschrist]

I'm the opposite: I love the slut-wife type, and I'd get off on seeing my sweetie analized by a stranger at a swinger party. Unfortunately she insists, she wants to reserve that part for me.

If you have a willing and swinging SO, I think she's wise to reserve something for just the two of you. You should probably do the same, it can't truly be a free-for-all completely. Her reserving anal just for you is a good idea, or CIM, or anything else really freaky. I suggest CIM and other bodily fluids, at least the exchange becomes symbolic and takes on meaning.

One last thing you need to keep in mind as you enter this world of open-sex with your partner - the female's way of choosing possible male partners can be quite different and very selective as compared to the way men choose. This is an obstacle that could cause conflict. She views you as a slut that will fuck anything (in her eyes, and your choice of partners she might not approve of), but you might view her as being so selective you might wonder if she's selecting a sex partner or a real partner.

 

[PlayfulAlex]

One last thing you need to keep in mind as you enter this world of open-sex with your partner - the female's way of choosing possible male partners can be quite different and very selective as compared to the way men choose. This is an obstacle that could cause conflict. She views you as a slut that will fuck anything (in her eyes, and your choice of partners she might not approve of), but you might view her as being so selective you might wonder if she's selecting a sex partner or a real partner.

I think these words of caution are wise to consider. After all, she's been receiving sexual advances since she was about 15 years old; meanwhile, he's been trying to get laid, mostly unsuccessfully, for that same number of years. When women seek out a sex partner, there's often a lot of emotional attachment, hence why she didn't feel the need to bang all the guys that have asked. Meanwhile, if he can just get a girl to say yes (sometimes any girl) he considers that an ego-boost and a big win.

So, if she's found someone she wants to say yes to, after the whirl with the guy with the big dick, and maybe another culture (natural curiosities), then what. Once her sexual curiosities are satisfied, we come back to those old reasons for choosing a mate (ie. mating, having sex with someone you want to mate with, and all that implies)...hmmmm

 

[uncleg]

I told my So I wanted to poon.........she went to the kitchen and got me one from the drawer, and then sat back to see what I was going to do with it....really shouldn't bring up the subject while drinking.

 

[tantalizeme]

What is the best time for a non-monogamy conversation with an SO?

Yes I had this conversation, and the look on his face was priceless. He may of creamed his pants when I told him we should see escorts !! Haha
Seriously though, life is not what you deserve but what you negotiate. We all need different types of sex and intimacy in our lives and it changes as we gain life experiences and age. Don't deny yourself the pleasures in life but be reseptful in obtaining them at the same time. Seeking out a professional to help with the journey also helps one be true to there feelings and intentions of why they want to do it. I think we all understand the difference between love and sex, but for someone that has been married for a while, especially the woman, there are more emotions involved and it's harder to separate the two. But gentlemen if your SO can be logical and separate the emotions then watch out your in for some fun !!!!

Hey Strawberry,

Wonderful that there're women like you in this world! Your contributions to this forum are refreshingly atypical for a female. Wish we could clone you.

You're right that opening up a marriage to non-monogamy typically gets harder and harder the longer a couple has been married, unless the relationship is already teetering on the brink—in which case swinging probably won't save it but probably just speed up its demise.

Having a successful non-monogamy talk with an SO is definitely a matter of timing. You can't really do it before she has developed a solid interest in being your GF—but you don't want to wait until she feels so sure of your love (and financial investment) that she can get away with emotional blackmail.

Subconsciously, when a man falls in love, the emotional bond he had with his mother gets partly transferred to the woman. So a potential breakup isn't just about becoming estranged from the kids or losing the house for men: there's also the emotional pain of severing that bond of intimacy. It leaves a hole in a man's heart. It cuts off the moorings of his existence and casts him adrift.

Most men will do almost anything to avoid this pain (except give up something that's really beyond their control: indulging in sexual fantasies). This gives a woman enormous leverage for emotional blackmail.

Once a pattern of monogamy is deeply entrenched in a relationship, negotiating permission to have sex with others will often be almost impossible—unless, perhaps, you enlist the help of a sex-positive counselor.

 

[Strawberry]

Married or not, most people think having a relationship means having the other person be responsible for your happiness etc. That is why people get so hurt when they think of there partner being with another. But to be honest if I'm looking at other people and thinking about having sex with them then chances are my partner is too. So why deny , be responsible for your feelings and find a way to make it work. If that means not telling him or her then so be it as not all relationships can stand up to these freedoms. Just be respectful, and don't forget about the other person in your freedoms.
I hear a lot of women talk about how there husbands would never cheat and I almost want to choke !! A few of my friends know what I do with my SO and let's just say we aren't very friendly anymore. There minds are just so closed and conservative. If those ladies only knew what there SO were really feeling I think there would be happier marriages and relationships out there.
It is constant negotiations though on both sides. The worst part is not agreeing on the same SP !!! We have different tastes so we have a few arguments on that. My solution have a duo, one for him and one for me

 

[Tugela]

Hey Lost-in-Japan,

This forum lends itself to making pretty wild statements—but your confession about not wanting to marry a woman that would let you go Greek is one of the most astonishing statements I've ever read.

Talk about a Madonna-whore complex!

I'm the opposite: I love the slut-wife type, and I'd get off on seeing my sweetie analized by a stranger at a swinger party. Unfortunately she insists, she wants to reserve that part for me.

Thanks for defending me against Tugela's snide remark that I regard women as "chattel": an accusation far more fairly leveled against guys who fool around with SPs while applying the double standard to their wives.

In all modesty, I've been told by several GFs that no other man ever treated them more like equals.

You're also right that, among couples who start out monogamous and then become swingers, one partner has to initiate an honest "how-about-including-others-in-our-sex-life" conversation. The original impetus almost always comes from the man, according to research I've read on swinger clubs.

But, as it turns out, over time women on average enjoy swinging more than men! And so they should—because even if they're built like battleships, they can usually join parties for free and have their pick of pussy-worshipping guys.

Call me optimistic, but I'd triage women into 3 groups, with respect to their open-relationship potential:

1. A good 60% are probably a lost cause.

2. About 5% don't need a lot of convincing, but are just as ready and willing to experiment sexually as the average male.

3. The remaining 35% would respond favorably to gentle but persistent encouragement to explore non-dyadic sex, provided they get ample reassurance of a partner's love.

I think getting this 3rd group of women into a sex-positive frame of mind is all about starting a reinforcing feedback loop. In the abstract, saying "Let's have sex with strangers" scares most women and puts them off.

But if you ease a potentially receptive woman step-by-step into social situations where partner exchange is modeled in plain view—the way brother JC so eloquently suggests—she's likely to warm up to the joys of variety.

And once she has had sex with other guys, she's far less likely to be paranoid about letting you have sex with SPs.

And if she says no? Then we will see how real your "relationship" is. If it is real, then you would respect her wishes and give the idea up.

But, somehow I doubt you would do that. Based on your other thread you would sneak behind her back and do it anyway, on the argument that it is "OK", basically because you want to and don't give a shit about how she feels.

A relationship goes both ways, it is not just about what you want. You expect any woman you are with to make sacrifices for you, sacrifices you yourself are not willing to make. What kind of relationship is that?

 

[suPERB]

I feel I have quite a bit I can contribute to these conversations but I'll try to keep it short. I think part of the problem here is that for one reason or another - most modern human cultures have evolved to diverge away from completely meeting our sexual needs. Thinking aloud here, our societies have probably evolved this way through religion, tradition, law, etc. as a trade-off for things such as productivity, docility, stability. Whichever of our ancestors/gods first advocated these ideas perhaps thought life in general would be better if there were less worries of raping, pillaging and killing each other. It's part of the price we have paid for going from chimps to what we are now. Now I'm not going to get into the efficacy of this process as we're still clearly capable of raping, pillaging and killing each other for stuff but perhaps it is to a lesser degree than if we were living in anarchy.

So where am I going with all this? I haven't gone to the extent of the OP's suggested conversation but over the relative long course of my relationship with my SO - I have planted various seeds of thought. The aforementioned theory that we traded in some sexual freedoms for civility, occasionally pointing out attractive members of the opposite sex, getting us comfortable enough to watch porn together once in a blue moon, etc. So there are some seeds there lol. But despite all that, most of us are so ingrained with our respective cultures that it would be nearly impossible to have the conversation you suggest and still carry on with a "normal" relationship. I mean, what is "normal" anyway except for what the majority of people deem to be acceptable? In the end, as liberal as I am and for all that I've planted within my SO; I am still heavily influenced by my environment and along with all of it's associated accepted norms. Being from very traditional Asian families most of whom are also religious does not help. This is a conversation I can not see myself ever having with her simply because it is not "normal" for the time and place we are living.