Teacher Strike
- Thread starter james1944
- Start date
The BCTF ads are all about the "kids". Kind of strange when they start walking out, stop doing after school activities and won't support the grad classes in their final year.
Total posturing on their part and it does come across as rather disingenuous.
FYI there are members in my family who are BCGEU, IBEW, and BCNU and they all think the BCTF are out of touch with reality.
This whole thing is just the BCTF doing their political best to make the Liberals take a beating so that "when" the NDP get back in they have a few years of harmony.
Political posturing at its best.
Why would any teacher in Alberta want to move to BC for a 30% cut in salary? It doesn't make sense, except of course to insular British Columbians who really drink the "Best Place on Earth" cool-aid by the gallon.
The article you cited, from almost a year ago, indicates layoffs of a few hundred in the two biggest districts, Calgary and Edmonton. Do you have any indication that ANY of those teachers have come to BC, instead of moving to Ontario, or Saskatchewan or Manitoba, all of which pay better than BC?
Do these members of your family work in BC? Do they make 30% LESS here than they would doing the very same job with the very same qualifications in Edmonton or Calgary?
There's been a lot of political posturing, a fraction of which has come from the BCTF. Since the 1970s BC Socred and Liberal politicians have considered it part of their standard election playbook to stage conflicts with the teachers, and then blame that conflict on the BCTF. That this game is still going on, 40 years after WAC Bennett got it rolling when he blamed his 1972 defeat on the teachers, goes to show that you can indeed fool some of the people all of the time. They will eat it up no matter what.
Here is the portion of your earlier message:
First, you Ray quote an earlier poster whom you didn't identify:
In the teachers case, simply having a complaint by a child or the parent of a child (say one who goofs off in class and never does homework, ergo gets a bad test result) can be the sole reason for firing the teacher
You then respond:
I have never, ever heard of a teacher being fired for a bad complaint. Quite the opposite. The crappy ones can't seem to get fired.
Your comment implicitly assumes that it's not just difficult but impossible to fire a teacher, even with cause (your reference to "The crappy ones..."). It's been said by many people, a few of whom are honestly misinformed, the rest coming from a different angle, that teachers and public servants cannot be fired even for substantial wrongdoing or poor performance. That is simply not true. It does take documentation and unions will take a members side, but in the end if the evidence is there a dismissal will result.
What quite often happens is that midway through such a process a employee who realizes they are going to eventually be dismissed will quit instead. In that way, official data on quits versus firings tends to overstate the former and understate the latter.
sheesh, my son's a waiter, and HE takes home more than 30% higher income in alberta than bc. bc sp's are flocking to alberta to ply their trade. it's about being a resource-based economy fer gawd's sake! across the board, folks are making more money in alberta than bc so you can't use that as an argument for caving in to the bctf
You are totally delusional.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delusional_disorder
Not every IBEW, BCNU or BCGEU contract is the same terms or wages as in Edmonton or Calgary as in Vancouver DUH
. In many circumstances the wages are lower in AB although the taxation is lower too. By and large AB is still very much a non unionized province when compared with BC.BCTF have been the political fist of the NDP since inception. They pick the fights and the NDP reap the benefits. It happens every time an election is around the corner. The BCTF give the govt a black eye and the NDP are untarnished. Pure political crap and you know it.
Once again you have your rose coloured glasses on and you are blinded by how the NDP, the Teachers etc are all "good". At least when I look at a political party I see all the warts and the good side. Right now with Dix etc all I see is a whole lot of warts from past regimes.
what he ^^ said... and you know who's next after the teachers? the friggin' nurses - bleating about not being able to give proper patient care, etc. all to make the liberals look bad in the voter's eye. it's not about this round of negotiations with the liberals... it's about what they hope to be the NEXT round of 'negotiations' with the ndp!You are totally delusional.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delusional_disorder
Not every IBEW, BCNU or BCGEU contract is the same terms or wages as in Edmonton or Calgary as in Vancouver DUH
BCTF have been the political fist of the NDP since inception. They pick the fights and the NDP reap the benefits. It happens every time an election is around the corner. The BCTF give the govt a black eye and the NDP are untarnished. Pure political crap and you know it.
Once again you have your rose coloured glasses on and you are blinded by how the NDP, the Teachers etc are all "good". At least when I look at a political party I see all the warts and the good side. Right now with Dix etc all I see is a whole lot of warts from past regimes.
That's really not true in general, not to the tune of 30%. Prior to about 2002 or 2003, average weekly wages were actually higher in BC, across all occupations, than in Alberta. Now they have slipped behind, but not by 30%.
You are totally delusional.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delusional_disorder
Not every IBEW, BCNU or BCGEU contract is the same terms or wages as in Edmonton or Calgary as in Vancouver DUH
BCTF have been the political fist of the NDP since inception. They pick the fights and the NDP reap the benefits. It happens every time an election is around the corner. The BCTF give the govt a black eye and the NDP are untarnished. Pure political crap and you know it.
Once again you have your rose coloured glasses on and you are blinded by how the NDP, the Teachers etc are all "good". At least when I look at a political party I see all the warts and the good side. Right now with Dix etc all I see is a whole lot of warts from past regimes.
Someone is delusional alright, and it isn't me! The fights between the teachers and the BC Socreds/Liberals started after the 1972 election, when WAC Bennett blamed his loss on teachers' political action. Prior to that, they had generally been supportive of Social Credit, and two of Bennett's most powerful ministers, Ray Williston and Donald Brothers, were teachers. So the statement that the BCTF has been "the political fist of the NDP since inception" is pure invention.
As for those IBEW and other contracts, perhaps you have an example or two. Some are saying Alberta pays more, now you're saying that it some instances it pays less. Well, which story are we on at the moment?
The Alberta Teacher's Assn has sent a letter of support to the BCTF:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/83978644/Letter-to-Susan-Lambert-From-the-Alberta-Teachers-Association
http://www.scribd.com/doc/83978644/Letter-to-Susan-Lambert-From-the-Alberta-Teachers-Association
FYI, teachers used to negotiate contracts on a local level. Collective bargaining, the pain in the ass process that everyone is bemoaning right now, was brought in by Vanderzalm. Most teachers hate it (also, most teachers aren't very pleased with the current BCTF Executive, but that's another thing all together).
So, yeah... if you're pissed off about teachers shutting down the schools over a contract dispute, thank the PC's. If things went back to local bargaining, almost all of the contracts would likely be settled by now.
So, yeah... if you're pissed off about teachers shutting down the schools over a contract dispute, thank the PC's. If things went back to local bargaining, almost all of the contracts would likely be settled by now.
When I'm debating, I never focus on the person, only the point in discussion.
I didn't make an implicit point, or assume, I was quite direct.
A claim was made that a teacher can get fired based on a simple complaint by a child or parent. My response is that I have never heard of a teacher being fired for a complaint by a student or parent.
If there is, perhaps you could enlighten us.
'The crappy ones'...
At my son's high school, there is a teacher who is the subject of many complaints from parents and students. Other teachers and the vice principal have all indicated they are waiting for a few more years for her to retire, but in the meantime, they are stuck with her. It is common knowledge in the community that you don't want your child in her math class.
This teacher has a tendency to get distracted and goes off on a tangent. She will start to teach her math subject, but never, ever finishes teaching the subject material for that block. She'll start talking about TV shows. Family issues. Relationships. Pop-culture. Whatever comes up.
We had to hire a math tutor for our son. He was an honor roll student on the principal's list until he ended up in her class.
My comment is based on that experience.
I have a friend and a cousin whose wife are high school math teachers. Both in Vancouver. They both indicate frustration with the inept ones getting shuffled around various schools when the complaints get too much in one school. No-one gets fired.
Yes, I did notice you did not respond to my calling you on your BS.
Which teachers were dismissed for a single complaint by parents or students? Not ever in my recent memory.
Care to respond?
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What is really missing here is how the financial package is being tailored. It is not a Zero Zero Zero package over three years.
If there are monies to be saved over three years it is open to negotiation. Given the BCTF are 'so called experts' in their day to day dealings within the system, they may respond on how to save $$ and it can be offered to their membership as a potential pay increase.
A statement was made that a simple complaint could get a teacher fired. I pointed out this wasn't true. No-one has posted anything to prove my statement incorrect.
I had never indicated this was the basis for negotiating teacher's contracts. Not sure where you're getting that from. I brought that up as personal experience that crappy teachers don't get fired. Nothing to do with contract negotiations. The only comment I've made in regards to the contract negotiations is that a 15% raise is out of line in today's economy.
You are reading far more into my comments than what I am writing. As I've stated earlier, there appears to be some comprehension issues on your part.
What is a "crappy teacher"? Is this someone who is simply below average in teaching ability? Because if that's what you mean there are, by definition, below average performers in every occupation who've been on the job for many years and are never fired, and shouldn't be. In any field of activity there's some range of abilities, and the notion that any industry could survive by retaining only the top tier of employees is ridiculous.
15% is a negotiating position, and given a 30% pay differential with the system next door I really don't understand how it can be considered excessive. Other government employees who have settled within the "net zero" framework probably aren't facing that kinid of wage differential with the Federal or Alberta governments. The Conference Board of Canada projects that this year non-union wages across Canada will rise by about 3%, and union wages just under 2%. But that is for one year, whereas the teacher's demand was for three years I believe.
Now, other unions are trying to argue for higher salaries. Obviously most civilians in Canada will object to this. If unions keep doing this without objective comparisons, Canada will collapse economically and morally!
