Tax de Carbon

[80watts]

My french is a little rusty, but even Quebec came up with a carbon tax plan...Sask, Man, Ontario and NB did not....

Everyone knows its a tax. Not a environment saving strategy, all because of how we heat our houses in the winter. Most people in the land of minus (temperature) in the winter heat their house with either Natural gas, or oil. So to stay warm we burn carbon. We love camping so we drive there. and we also love driving- the independance it gives us.

The hogwash of getting it back in tax returns is exactly that - hogwash, the federal government makes more money by holding the taxes for months before getting the refund to individuals... go fiqure....

The government would be more honest is they raised the GST by 1%. Harper really fucked the next government by lowering it to 5%. Or an increase in taxing non-renewable resources like mining minerals etc.

What the government should do is take the take money and invest it directly into renewable energy projects, give greater sway to wind farms (despite the whines of people saying not in my backyard..etc).

The government could save millions (maybe billions) on only 1 official language-- This could cause our favourite not-have province to separate... oh no.....

My only regret then, would they still serve poutine in restaurants in the rest of Canada....

Or the government could take a page from Harper and streamline the government departments, which got Trudeau elected in the first place.....

 

[sybian]

My french is a little rusty, but even Quebec came up with a carbon tax plan...Sask, Man, Ontario and NB did not....

Everyone knows its a tax. Not a environment saving strategy, all because of how we heat our houses in the winter. Most people in the land of minus (temperature) in the winter heat their house with either Natural gas, or oil. So to stay warm we burn carbon. We love camping so we drive there. and we also love driving- the independance it gives us.

The hogwash of getting it back in tax returns is exactly that - hogwash, the federal government makes more money by holding the taxes for months before getting the refund to individuals... go fiqure....

The government would be more honest is they raised the GST by 1%. Harper really fucked the next government by lowering it to 5%. Or an increase in taxing non-renewable resources like mining minerals etc.

What the government should do is take the take money and invest it directly into renewable energy projects, give greater sway to wind farms (despite the whines of people saying not in my backyard..etc).

The government could save millions (maybe billions) on only 1 official language-- This could cause our favourite not-have province to separate... oh no.....

My only regret then, would they still serve poutine in restaurants in the rest of Canada....

Or the government could take a page from Harper and streamline the government departments, which got Trudeau elected in the first place.....

In the land of real minus temperature, in a place that a person must burn a minimum of 5 cords of wood to heat even a cabin. They use wood burning outdoor boilers for safety.
You don't have to worry about your house catching fire, because the wood fire is 60 feet from your house.
The Government has now made it illegal to sell them in BC....at the same time enforcing unrealistic W.E.T. inspections on indoor wood stoves , making the entire thing cost prohibitive, which essentially makes you burn expensive fossil fuels, or consume electricity.
There is no natural gas in these areas...and propane is much more expensive than in urban areas....if you do have a wood stove and burn more than 2 cords of wood a year....which is everyone north of Yale, the insurance is much more expensive.
Oh......and the new wood burning regulations......is to reduce carbon.

There was a volcano that erupted in the last century, not a big one, just a medium eruption.
That volcano blasted twice the amount of carbon in the atmosphere in 3 days, than what humans have produced in our entire existence......I'm keeping my wood stove.
But I'm kind of ornery that way ,when it comes to Government.

 

[Sifupoon]

What exactly is the so cost prohibitive problem for a wood stove. My folks live out in the fraser valley
and they had their brand new woodstove installed by the company they bought it from.
They had to pay $50 for the woodstove inspection that clearances and proper concrete board was
installed underneath. That was it other than they had to declare to their home insurance
that they have a woodstove in their house. No insurance costs increases went along with that.

So maybe I don't understand what the costs are further up in central or so BC but down here
it is a really cheap and they won't give up their woodstove either. No way. Way cheaper
to heat their home this way.

 

[MissingOne]

We have a wood stove that was installed in the 1980's. A couple of years ago our insurance company asked for documentation for their files, to show that it's safe and correctly installed. I took some photos, showing the manufacturer's plate, the certification plate, and the general installation. i emailed the photos to the insurance agent. They were satisfied. No increase in rates.

 

[sybian]

What exactly is the so cost prohibitive problem for a wood stove. My folks live out in the fraser valley
and they had their brand new woodstove installed by the company they bought it from.
They had to pay $50 for the woodstove inspection that clearances and proper concrete board was
installed underneath. That was it other than they had to declare to their home insurance
that they have a woodstove in their house. No insurance costs increases went along with that.

So maybe I don't understand what the costs are further up in central or so BC but down here
it is a really cheap and they won't give up their woodstove either. No way. Way cheaper
to heat their home this way.

We have a wood stove that was installed in the 1980's. A couple of years ago our insurance company asked for documentation for their files, to show that it's safe and correctly installed. I took some photos, showing the manufacturer's plate, the certification plate, and the general installation. i emailed the photos to the insurance agent. They were satisfied. No increase in rates.

It's probably classed as supplementary heat, because around here people use them 24-7 for at least six months.
They would have been asked how much wood they'd burn......if it's under two cords that may have something to do with it.
Up here our insurance costs go up dramatically ......some houses have up to three stoves.
Perhaps I will look into insuring down on the Coast , where there is more competition, for better pricing.

 

[MissingOne]

...Perhaps I will look into insuring down on the Coast , where there is more competition, for better pricing.

Can't hurt to look, if you have time. We live on the mainland. We tried the local agencies but couldn't find one willing to put a little effort into finding the policy we needed. We found an agency in Victoria, hundreds of kilometers away. They put some effort in and came up with the policy we needed.

But hey, I would not be surprised if, when you visit the coast, you have other activities in mind for your spare time. Visiting insurance agencies may not be high on your list.

 

[storm rider]

The Carbon Tax is a virtue signalling bullshit Lieberal SHAM.It will not lower emissions as Canadians have no choice about heating their homes in winter....heat you home or freeze to death...pretty clear choice.Trudeau and Notley in 2015 did not campaign on the hustings by saying "we will institute a Carbon Tax" after they won they arbitrarily saddled Albertan's and Canadians with it......and with the GST stacked on top of it as it is called a "carbon levy"...a tax on a tax.

Climate change as proposed by the alarmists and doomsayers are the Emperors New Clothes.....it is a fucking SHAM.The Climate on this planet has changed over the course of BILLIONS of years.When data was started to be tracked GHG levels in the 1970's had them at 265 parts per million and 30 years later they are at 360 parts per million......take a massive amount of space and place down a level field with 1 million white marbles and then replace 370 of them with black marbles to get an idea.Al Gore's hockey stick graph completely omits the middle ages warming period when GHG's reached 8000 parts per million and it also omits the mini ice age.

Canada produces 2% of worldwide GHG emissions(fact) and that encompasses EVERYTHING...oil and gas/mining/agriculture of all types/mining of all types/transportation of Canada's GDP such as oil/grain/coking coal/copper/iron ore/uranium and the list goes on and it also includes ALL that is IMPORTED into Canada and I wont even get list all of that as it is far too much to list.

The real important question that needs to be asked and I for one know Trudeau will dodge it on the coming election hustings if he is asked is "Will your Government MEET Canada's Paris Climate Accord commitments by purchasing carbon credits from other countries?.......if he dodges the question with Lieberal doublespeak then the answer is a solid YES....of course the Lieberals wont actually answer questions such as that.

Climate change per it's doomsaying affects per the UN IPCC are total bullshit...it is nothing but a wealth transfer.....see how much you like a Carbon Tax when it is $300 a ton and the Carbon Tax costs you $10 for each gigajoule of natural gas and the cost of the natural gas is $2.50.....will that make you feel warm and fuzzy when you are getting fucked over knowing that China as a country under the Paris Accord does not have to start reducing emissions until 2030....and Chine wont be hitting the populace with a "carbon tax"

SR

 

[badbadboy]

The Arctic is thawing out and the melting of permafrost releases carbon gases. As it thaws out, green house gases such as methane is released into the atmosphere. The temperature rise in the Arctic is now double what the rest of Canada is now.

Even if the Paris Accord was fully accepted internationally, the end result will be environmental devastation by 2050.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/siberia-pleistocene-park-bringing-back-pieces-of-the-ice-age-to-combat-climate-change-60-minutes/

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_change_in_the_Arctic

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/arctic-warming-locked-in-1.5056548

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2018/08/news-arctic-permafrost-may-thaw-faster-than-expected/

 

[nightswhisper]

Since almost everyone uses gas - in aviation, shipping and daily driving - taxing carbon is effectively taxing productivity. In turn, people must now work more to pay for the tax on their productivity, which offsets carbon taxes' effectiveness. Furthermore, more and more Canadians now take advantage of lower gas prices in the US, causing an outflow of capital.

I would be pro taxing carbon if we used the taxes for massive initiatives towards alternative energy rebates. However, current rebates are at best minor incentives and don't offset desire by most individuals to get gas guzzling cars. In fact, if we tax carbon, it should be so high that driving petroleum based cars would be prohibitive. Then, tax money could be used to develop infrastructure to sustain more EV vehicles. But we are geographically large and demographically sparse to make this less than feasible.

I do think that the planet is changing, but not to the extent that fear-mongering scientists and politicians would have you believe. Society either reads too much Malthus or likes to buy into apocalyptic end-times notion. I suspect we will have the technology to combat changes in climate - in fact, we are already well under way to do so.

“Every great cause begins as a movement, becomes a business and eventually degenerates into a racket.”

 

[treveller]

So much incoherent garbage criticism of the carbon tax that I don't know where to start.

How about the "it's all about the volcanoes" story? Where did that come from? You can find some rational information at these links.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dioxide_in_Earth's_atmosphere
https://www.che-project.eu/news/main-sources-carbon-dioxide-emissions

If the carbon tax isn't working then it just needs to be higher. $200 per ton would be a good starting point. It is just a matter of the government changing where it takes the money from. With a high enough carbon tax we could end sales tax and GST. We could vastly reduce income tax and property tax.

"We can't reduce our home heating need for fossil fuels"? This is a ridiculous suggestion. We have insulation, air source heat pumps, ground source heat pumps, passive solar, active solar thermal and fundamental changes to building design. Even photo voltaic solar can work in Canada. Houses can be built in Canada that have no net energy demand. Check out the Passive House and Net Zero building systems. It is all just a matter of economics. As you make carbon pollution more expensive people will produce less of it and other things will become less expensive in both real and relative terms.

 

[nightswhisper]

So much incoherent garbage criticism of the carbon tax that I don't know where to start.

How about the "it's all about the volcanoes" story? Where did that come from? You can find some rational information at these links.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dioxide_in_Earth's_atmosphere
https://www.che-project.eu/news/main-sources-carbon-dioxide-emissions

If the carbon tax isn't working then it just needs to be higher. $200 per ton would be a good starting point. It is just a matter of the government changing where it takes the money from. With a high enough carbon tax we could end sales tax and GST. We could vastly reduce income tax and property tax.

"We can't reduce our home heating need for fossil fuels"? This is a ridiculous suggestion. We have insulation, air source heat pumps, ground source heat pumps, passive solar, active solar thermal and fundamental changes to building design. Even photo voltaic solar can work in Canada. Houses can be built in Canada that have no net energy demand. Check out the Passive House and Net Zero building systems. It is all just a matter of economics. As you make carbon pollution more expensive people will produce less of it and other things will become less expensive in both real and relative terms.

Principally sound but logically flawed.

 

[Amerix]

There was a volcano that erupted in the last century, not a big one, just a medium eruption.
That volcano blasted twice the amount of carbon in the atmosphere in 3 days, than what humans have produced in our entire existence......I'm keeping my wood stove.
But I'm kind of ornery that way ,when it comes to Government.

Look. I don't think a carbon tax is going to do anything to save us from climate change.

But seriously, why do people repeat crazy bullshit like the above? It's easily falsified. All the volcanoes in the world emit around 200 million tons of CO2 annually combined. Humans emitted 37 billion tons of CO2 in 2018. That is almost 200 times as much.

Stop believing every random denier argument that crosses your Facebook feed. They're all bullshit. Humans are warming up the planet. Things are going to change. It's just a fact.

 

[nightswhisper]

Stop believing every random denier argument that crosses your Facebook feed. They're all bullshit. Humans are warming up the planet. Things are going to change. It's just a fact.

First, it's a hypothesis. It's not a fact. To date, there has been no proof that says climate change is conclusively caused by man. (not that there has been disproof either). Until we can accurately predict changes, it will be a hypothesis.

Religiously believing climate change is / isn't real is sort of weird, because it's supposed to be scientific and inquisitive, not blind faith. Climate change isn't and shouldn't be a religion.

The best thing you can do to contribute to protecting the planet is to recycle, reuse and reduce.

Slapping a carbon tax really doesn't help unless it's exorbitantly prohibitive - A scenario for which we aren't ready in Canada because we are too geographically expansive. Though I think it will work, it just isn't the time.

Neither the IPCC nor the deniers believe continued use of carbon-based fuel sources will lead to catastrophic failures of the planet. Carbon Tax is a system devised by pseudo-moralistic demagogues to advance their own agendae. It's not a scientific or economic approach to solving the underlying issue. (It's like having a lung infection and taking advil to kill the fever. It doesn't help with anything.)

We are currently seeking alternatives to fossil fuels. Technology has and always will fix our problems.

 

[sybian]

Look. I don't think a carbon tax is going to do anything to save us from climate change.

But seriously, why do people repeat crazy bullshit like the above? It's easily falsified. All the volcanoes in the world emit around 200 million tons of CO2 annually combined. Humans emitted 37 billion tons of CO2 in 2018. That is almost 200 times as much.

Stop believing every random denier argument that crosses your Facebook feed. They're all bullshit. Humans are warming up the planet. Things are going to change. It's just a fact.

First, it's a hypothesis. It's not a fact. To date, there has been no proof that says climate change is conclusively caused by man. (not that there has been disproof either). Until we can accurately predict changes, it will be a hypothesis.

Religiously believing climate change is / isn't real is sort of weird, because it's supposed to be scientific and inquisitive, not blind faith. Climate change isn't and shouldn't be a religion.

The best thing you can do to contribute to protecting the planet is to recycle, reuse and reduce.

Slapping a carbon tax really doesn't help unless it's exorbitantly prohibitive - A scenario for which we aren't ready in Canada because we are too geographically expansive. Though I think it will work, it just isn't the time.

Neither the IPCC nor the deniers believe continued use of carbon-based fuel sources will lead to catastrophic failures of the planet. Carbon Tax is a system devised by pseudo-moralistic demagogues to advance their own agendae. It's not a scientific or economic approach to solving the underlying issue. (It's like having a lung infection and taking advil to kill the fever. It doesn't help with anything.)

We are currently seeking alternatives to fossil fuels. Technology has and always will fix our problems.

This is precisely what I was getting at.....and the guy was a notable scientist, not some hack with an axe to grind, or wanting more friends on Facebook.
There was another Scientist that drilled into the ice in Greenland, or Iceland I don't remember which, but he went down about three million years.
Climate change, or the fluctuation in temperature is normal....BUT not at the rate it is progressing now. He was laughed at twenty years ago by the Scientific community....now they are listening to him.
They say that to much greenhouse gasses, the Earth lets the frozen water thaw, washing the earth. Our baseline for climate change is only 150 to 200 hundred years when they started keeping records, this guy brought a rough baseline back to 3 million....and they laughed, and didn't even want to consider his findings, because it didn't fall in line with what they believed.
im not saying the rate it is changing is normal, or we shouldn't be concerned, I'm saying it may have happened before, at a slower rate....more greenhouse gases, more thaw, more instability ......
Oh....and I don't have a Facebook account, I find it all ridiculous.

 

[Lo-ki]

Soooooo...gas is at $1.62.......
I guess at this price I will drive less......WRONG
What ever price it is, I still need to drive the same amount every day.
So the carbon tax is what is it a TAX.... cash grab.

 

[treveller]

...What ever price it is, I still need to drive the same amount every day...

This is between highly unlikely and ridiculous. Lets say a carbon tax puts gas to $10/L and you get a tax refund that covers all your added cost. Are you going to find a way to burn less gas? If you have no alternative then you are an exception and you still break even at the end of the month. Especially when you consider that with everyone else in the same boat there will be many more alternatives. Put the carbon tax high enough and 90% of the ICE commuters will find an alternative. Busses and electric cars come to mind.

 

[jgg]

This is between highly unlikely and ridiculous. Lets say a carbon tax puts gas to $10/L and you get a tax refund that covers all your added cost. Are you going to find a way to burn less gas? If you have no alternative then you are an exception and you still break even at the end of the month. Especially when you consider that with everyone else in the same boat there will be many more alternatives. Put the carbon tax high enough and 90% of the ICE commuters will find an alternative. Busses and electric cars come to mind.

Try living and working in the Prairies, or any remote part of Canada. We don't even have the Dog anymore.

 

[sybian]

Try living and working in the Prairies, or any remote part of Canada. We don't even have the Dog anymore.

Yeah or groceries , doctors and the bank are an hour and a half away....and before you say, " but you choose to live in that location, and you knew that when you moved there"
Half of the small towns ten or twenty years ago, had these services, but the hospitals close down ,the town has less population, and services are decreased in a chain reaction.....meanwhile taxes go up for less...or no services ,that existed a decade ago.
A fine example of that is when our MLA was asked, why the last government program is being shut down for rural kids to congregate and have a playday......the funding was being pulled to throw money into the 10 dollar a day childcare down in Vancouver ....shit these poor kids can't even have one fun day a month,to see each other and socialize, and there already is no daycare for them around here.
I freaking hate Politicians.

 

[nightswhisper]

Soooooo...gas is at $1.62.......
I guess at this price I will drive less......WRONG
What ever price it is, I still need to drive the same amount every day.
So the carbon tax is what is it a TAX.... cash grab.

This is between highly unlikely and ridiculous. Lets say a carbon tax puts gas to $10/L and you get a tax refund that covers all your added cost. Are you going to find a way to burn less gas? If you have no alternative then you are an exception and you still break even at the end of the month. Especially when you consider that with everyone else in the same boat there will be many more alternatives. Put the carbon tax high enough and 90% of the ICE commuters will find an alternative. Busses and electric cars come to mind.

You can't possibly isolate a part of a complex system and expect everything to work.

 

[Hugh Jass]

This is between highly unlikely and ridiculous. Lets say a carbon tax puts gas to $10/L and you get a tax refund that covers all your added cost. Are you going to find a way to burn less gas? If you have no alternative then you are an exception and you still break even at the end of the month. Especially when you consider that with everyone else in the same boat there will be many more alternatives. Put the carbon tax high enough and 90% of the ICE commuters will find an alternative. Busses and electric cars come to mind.

Well the rebate will NOT cover all your added costs, not even close. Companies that have to bear the brunt of the tax will have to increase prices to cover their increased costs of manufacturing and transportation as they pass this along to the consumer. Any increase in the price of gas hits those at the bottom of the income scale and those on fixed incomes the hardest and will drive them even deeper into poverty than they already are. The prices of everything will have to rise and the cost of basics like food, clothing and shelter are not covered by the rebate.