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Steel and Aluminum Production to be nationalized

80watts

Well-known member
May 20, 2004
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As the title entails, nationalize steel and Aluminum production. Why?
The high cost of these materials which should be dirt cheap, because the technology is old. Cheaper price steel of quality, would mean cheaper highrises and lower cost of apartment buildings. (please don't mix up cheaper prices with cheap knock-off crapy materials). The idea would be that anything using steel or aluminum, has to be built in Canada. Mined, manufactured and then constructed by Canadians.

Wood is too expensive to build buildings especially those 4 story apartment buildings. Look at the cost of a 2 X 4, it doubled during covid and with inflation its still very high at over 8.00/board or more (depending on size of board).
This would create more manufacturing jobs in Canada.
If you limit the amount of steel for importing, it creates jobs for Canadians.... Canada is still a raw material producing country.

The prime reason I chose this subject was because a few years ago, the construction of the Johnson street bridge in Victoria was delayed waiting for cheaper Chinese steel, who usually imports raw iron from Australia. Why weren't Canadians making their own steel? Too expensive, being under sold by other countries. What is good for one company building a bridge or building, in term s of money, is not good for the Canadian economy as a whole because of the lack of jobs in the heavy manufacturing. Trains, planes and automobiles.... The Ontario economy basically collapsed over night in the 80s-90s over the fall of the auto-pac (manufacturing cars in Ontario- when the jobs went to Mexico). Canada biggest challenges ahead comes in terms of Transportation (whether that is Electric or hydrogen fueled). For high density areas, subways and rapid transit are the key. Also highspeed trains between Canadian cities, instead of airplanes burning fossil fuels.
One thing Canadians are very bad at doing is planning for the future, while they maximize their profits and spend their money outside of Canada.

Seems drastic to national steel and aluminum production, but it will keep the heavy manufacturing in Canada (increases local economies too).

One thing is steel or aluminum can be stored in freezing conditions in buildings that do not need to be heated. One of the greatest things that business is doing is limiting the number of items, due to having to store things at room temperature. This creates a demand for items as they are scarce, and thus increase the price of individual items, leading to inflation. Inflation we are all feeling due to lack of items on stores walls.

Manufacturing is slowly going from moulded/machined items to 3D printed items, which can vastly lower the cost of production due to limiting the number of steps in production.

Steel is used in ships, cars, trucks, cement, buildings (highrises) for strength and durability. Aluminums is used too, but mostly because it is lighter than steel. The thing that probally pisses me off the most is the high cost of bolts or screws, when they are dirt cheap to produce, so why are they so very fucken expensive.

Thoughts?
 

westwoody

Well-known member
Jun 10, 2004
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Error in reasoning for not keeping a lot of product in stock:
Inventory is your enemy, it is tied up capital.

3D printing is long way from making a dent in normal manufacturing. Plastic/CFRP can be done at consumer level but is slow and requires skill. Metal is very very expensive and slow.
 
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westwoody

Well-known member
Jun 10, 2004
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Forgot to mention raw powder for 3D metal printing is itself expensive to make and can be a health hazard or explosive/highly flammable especially titanium.
Fun thing for metal fabs back in the day was saving ti swarf and burning it in bbq. Don’t try it kids!
Plastic powder with carbon fiber or beryllium will really fuk you up if inhaled. Beryllium was poised to be the next big thing 25 years ago but it’s too toxic to work with.
 

overdone

Banned
Apr 26, 2007
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Works great for Norway
Norway has the population of AB or BC, a large city, in big countries, the land area too, hardly useful to compare against


it's ridiculous to compare it to most other countries when it comes to economics like this

just like when you guys try to equate AB's oil fund with theirs

take away the leaches we have in Ottawa and then give us back our 600 Billion, then you might have a comparison

same with nationalizing something in country the size of one of our provinces
 

80watts

Well-known member
May 20, 2004
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Victoria
Canada's big problem with economics is the shear size of the country. Think about Transportation. Don't have to nationalize it, just have to have 90% made in Canada. At Canadian foundries. Should be also able to stockpile metal, to prevent market fluctuations and make metal cheaper overall.

What really pisses me off about the industry, is that you can get cheaper material in the US, then in Canada. Why? Competition in the US, but in Canada we mostly get steel from the US, and due to taxes, and middle men, its is 2 to 3X as expensive. I don't give a fuck if a US company has to come to Canada to make steel and sale it in Canada. Its about the jobs and overall how expensive it is for common base items for manufacturing.
 

Ray

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Dec 21, 2005
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vancouver
We should also nationalize the oil and gas industry in Canada so that we can have cheap gasoline (20 cents per litre - yeah !).

It worked for Venezuela, didn’t it ? :unsure:
Venezuela's economic collapse may have more to do with the sanctions designed to cripple it's economy because someone didn't like the results of the election.
 

80watts

Well-known member
May 20, 2004
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Corruption at PDVSA has also a lot to do with it.
Corruption yes, but it was a few people profiting, that were raking the dough in, while the people were suffering. Venezula is still a mineral rich country. It has vast reserves of oil still. Its just that the wealth was not distributed properly. Look at Russia and its oligarths... A couple hundred billionaires, most with superyachts, while the average Russian is a drunk, due to its economy.
 

Deguire

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Aug 23, 2018
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Venezuela's economic collapse may have more to do with the sanctions designed to cripple it's economy because someone didn't like the results of the election.
Oh, c'mon!! Sanctions were imposed after the economy had already collapsed. Socialism run rampant, Chavez destroyed the country then croaked. They have lots of oil but thanks to incompetent, corrupt political interference, output is a fraction of what it once was. Millions have fled across the border to Colombia.
 
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rlock

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May 20, 2015
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If nationalization could stop offshoring of production, great. Offshoring depends on being cheap from a financial perspective, rather than logical from an engineering (or energy efficiency) perspective.
I'm not sure it would be such a cure-all, but looking at COVID-19, and other things like the war over Ukraine, it shows why depending on supply chains that are easily broken is a easy way to fuck oneself.
 
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