Like Abby Martin??
She is HOT!!! :nod: lol
Agree 100% !
Same as Bradley Manning.
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Snowden, your opinions?
- Thread starter normisanas
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Like Abby Martin??
She is HOT!!! :nod: lol
Agree 100% !
Same as Bradley Manning.
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maybe snowdon's just acting, and he's been assigned the task of convincing everybody that NOTHING is secure on the internet - so people will stop all their plotting and planning against the 'administration' to enforce the constitution
just saying... i mean ANYTHING is possible here
Maybe if Snowden was the first NSA whistleblower.. But he's not.
Just google William Binney. He's just one of them - there are others..
Here's part of the documents leaked by Bradley Manning...for those who have "forgotten" the "collateral murder" video depicting war crimes - the murder of journalists and civilians:
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I have read through this thread as well as the shit that hit the fan today with regards to the verdict for
the court case with Bradley Marshall.And my opinion is the same,both of those assholes are traitors
and they deserve no mercy for betraying their country....yes the USA is pretty fucked up right now
and Obama is just making it worse but a traitor is a traitor.
With regards to Snowdon whilst the Russian government has refused to turn him over nor give him a passport he has been granted neutral ground at the airport.His best bet is a slow boat to Cuba or another south american like minded country but that is a long road to travel.
No matter what both of them are traitors who spread classified information to purposefully hurt the country
that they call home.
Bradley will most likely never see a day of freedom till he dies and Snowdon will be looking over his shoulder
for the rest of his life wondering if he is about to be wiped out by a CIA wet-work team no matter which south
american country he gets to reside in.
All I can say is they will both get what is coming to them be it a long prison sentence for Bradley or a well
placed 9MM in the back of Snowdon's head when he goes to take a piss in the bathroom of a bar in Ecuador/Cuba etc.
You can whine and bitch and complain about the cost of SP's/hookers/prostitutes all the world over but
the one thing you DONT do is BETRAY your country.
Just my .02
SR
Totally agree.
Some extremist Muslims blow up themselves for their ideals.
Betraying your country AND breaking the law in the name of greater ideals whether you're a soldier (volunteer and paid job btw) or defence contractor gets you an express ticket to the next world or life in prison.
I don't condone the death sentence but would in these cases, those pure souls just deserve to be martyrs. Their actions are for all intents and purpose suicide.
I also hope Assange gets to eat Ecuadorian food for the rest of his life, at least he can't rape when he's locked up in that embassy.
JB
Some extremist Muslims blow up themselves for their ideals.
Betraying your country AND breaking the law in the name of greater ideals whether you're a soldier (volunteer and paid job btw) or defence contractor gets you an express ticket to the next world or life in prison.
I don't condone the death sentence but would in these cases, those pure souls just deserve to be martyrs. Their actions are for all intents and purpose suicide.
I also hope Assange gets to eat Ecuadorian food for the rest of his life, at least he can't rape when he's locked up in that embassy.
JB
Personally I am far more concerned about how our countries are betraying their citizens that whistle blowers betraying some oath.
The depths of surveillance that is being done in the name of security is frightening. And yet the government has successfully been able to shift the dialog to appeal to our bloodlust.
Metadata is boring. Chasing Snowden around the world - that's fun.
The depths of surveillance that is being done in the name of security is frightening. And yet the government has successfully been able to shift the dialog to appeal to our bloodlust.
Metadata is boring. Chasing Snowden around the world - that's fun.
Unjust killing of civilians no doubt, wrong place at the wrong time, the US military should prosecute such actions.
Some armies have higher moral standards than others when considering collateral damage, including the risk of friendly fire mind you.
Journalists in war zone on the other hand take this risk, it comes with the territory. Just like mostly well paid incompetent and powerless UN peacekeepers (another fancy name for mercenaries) who get killed when getting in the line of fire. On a related note the UN - another useless thing in this world. Too bad those 9/11 terrorist pilots didn't take it down instead of the twin towers...
The enemies of the US and the truly democratic Western world despise us all for our high ideals and lack of understanding of the dark "kill or be killed" human nature.
Focus your attention on Syria, Iran, Russia and China - the true evils of the world. Stand in front of the embassies of those countries and shout for human rights if you really want to change the world for the better. Or continue living in la la land. Your choice.
Some armies have higher moral standards than others when considering collateral damage, including the risk of friendly fire mind you.
Journalists in war zone on the other hand take this risk, it comes with the territory. Just like mostly well paid incompetent and powerless UN peacekeepers (another fancy name for mercenaries) who get killed when getting in the line of fire. On a related note the UN - another useless thing in this world. Too bad those 9/11 terrorist pilots didn't take it down instead of the twin towers...
The enemies of the US and the truly democratic Western world despise us all for our high ideals and lack of understanding of the dark "kill or be killed" human nature.
Focus your attention on Syria, Iran, Russia and China - the true evils of the world. Stand in front of the embassies of those countries and shout for human rights if you really want to change the world for the better. Or continue living in la la land. Your choice.
The only people that really abuse any information from our interactions (electronics or otherwise) are corporations.
I fear of Google and Apple more than I fear the US government.
Meanwhile the enemies of our world are rolling on the floor laughing at all of this and waiting for the next opportunity to take advantage of our collective weakness.
Just waiting for someone to say that 9/11 was a CIA plot and terrorism doesn't exist.
I fear of Google and Apple more than I fear the US government.
Meanwhile the enemies of our world are rolling on the floor laughing at all of this and waiting for the next opportunity to take advantage of our collective weakness.
Just waiting for someone to say that 9/11 was a CIA plot and terrorism doesn't exist.
First of all, there is no possible way in human history that Snowden would ever get a fair shake at a trial in the US, sorry never gonna happen. As for Manning, when you plead out to crimes, you make a deal with the crown, so you get not guilty on some and HAVE to plead guilty on others. Crown says, "well I'll drop this one, if you plead guilty on this one and this one", that's how the system works, so by court proceedings yes he plead guilty, but doesn't mean he's actually guilty, he just made a deal so he'd get less time, because they would've fried his ass, he knew it and his lawyer knew it.
I don't know why some people in this thread are calling these guys traitors, the governments are the biggest traitors, they're the one's in bed with big pharma, big agra, big oil etc. and other corporations. You're blaming the corporations, but a bribe is only a bribe if the other party agrees to take it - in this case that would be our greedy politicians with their hands out and pockets wide open. So to say you're more worried about corporate corruption than you are about the actual government is hypocrisy at it's finest, when they're the one's taking the money in the first place. The bribes keep getting bigger and bigger, because the government has ALLOWED them to do this. It's like extortion or blackmail, people keep doing it, because they CAN, their "victim" allows them to.
And call me crazy or whatever, I have zero respect for governments that sell out their people all in the name of the almighty buck, governments should provide transparency to all of us, oh right they're supposed to but don't!
So fuck em when someone like Snowden, Manning or Assange leaks out information!
Harper ever find our missing tax money that he couldn't account for?
Did the FED ever find all that money they couldn't account for?
Boo-hoo these guys leaked information that WE THE PEOPLE, you know THE TAX PAYERS who pay these idiot politicians their basic wages .. HAVE THE RIGHT TO KNOW!
I don't know why some people in this thread are calling these guys traitors, the governments are the biggest traitors, they're the one's in bed with big pharma, big agra, big oil etc. and other corporations. You're blaming the corporations, but a bribe is only a bribe if the other party agrees to take it - in this case that would be our greedy politicians with their hands out and pockets wide open. So to say you're more worried about corporate corruption than you are about the actual government is hypocrisy at it's finest, when they're the one's taking the money in the first place. The bribes keep getting bigger and bigger, because the government has ALLOWED them to do this. It's like extortion or blackmail, people keep doing it, because they CAN, their "victim" allows them to.
And call me crazy or whatever, I have zero respect for governments that sell out their people all in the name of the almighty buck, governments should provide transparency to all of us, oh right they're supposed to but don't!
So fuck em when someone like Snowden, Manning or Assange leaks out information!
Harper ever find our missing tax money that he couldn't account for?
Did the FED ever find all that money they couldn't account for?
Boo-hoo these guys leaked information that WE THE PEOPLE, you know THE TAX PAYERS who pay these idiot politicians their basic wages .. HAVE THE RIGHT TO KNOW!
I totally agree with you. Just to mention that even though he plead guilty to several of the lesser charges, none of the other charges were withdrawn. The trial for all of those still went ahead which the verdict that just came out was for. When he pleaded guilty to those charges, prior to the trial, he made a statement in court, explaining his reasons and motivation for whistleblowing. The audio of the statement was leaked and I posted the link in a previous post – it's really worth listening to.
Also, I came across this yesterday. It's part of the opening statement made by Manning's defense attorney, David Coombs.
Yah, what a shitty person..he didn't feel like celebrating after the death of a child. Right.
Obviously it has not and does not prosecute such actions. (Well, that's not true. When it's US lives, they do. When it's US perpetrators...ha! Dream on..)
Part of the reason for Bradley Manning to leak what he did, the video posted earlier specifically, was for citizens to know the truth about what was being done is their names and what they were being lied about. Without Bradley Manning, the true civilian casualties count in Iraq would not have been know (government had been claiming they did not keep count!), nor would anyone have ever known of the collateral damage attack even though Reuters, who was the employer of the 2 journalists killed, had made requests to obtain a copy of the video (which is NOT classified btw) but were being told it was 'lost' and couldn't be found.
It made Bradley Manning sick, especially when hearing the disgusting bloodlust of those doing the killing and the callous and outrageous "well, they shouldn't bring their kids to a battlefield" (it's not a fucking battlefield, it's a street in the city where they live!! On his way to driving his kids to school, the man drove onto a scene of carnage and as any decent human being should do, stopped to rescue a man who appeared to still be alive..at which point, of course, he was blown up and killed, while his kids who were sitting in the can, where seriously injured and almost killed too.) i mean seriously. wtf?! that's disgusting.
You'd be reacting very differently if it was your family members, friends and loved ones. Well, it's no different when it's someone in Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen or Palestine. They're not any less human or loved and their lives any less valuable than you or anyone who perished on 9/11. There's no difference. None.
I'm sorry but the words 'moral' and 'army' put together is the most absurd word combination ever. What do you call those? Oxymoron?...
Armies aren't people. Armies are made up of people and people are not all moral. Power corrupts, it is simply human nature. Some people will be corrupted or let the power go to their heads easier than others. Some people may think they're acting in a moral way but the line between what is moral and what is not can often be quite blurry. Without a completely objective view, it's easy for people to believe they are acting morally when they are in fact not. Especially when they are placed in high stress situations where they fear for their lives, see others lose theirs and are obviously affected, both emotionally and psychologically, which everyone reacts to differently. And it happens all the time.
Most armies, in the course of most wars, need to dehumanize their opponents in order to fight and kill. This inevitably blurs the lines. Wars are dirty and armies have nothing to do with morality, nor are they moral. They are not automatically immoral but they are certainly not moral either. Not the US army, not the Israeli army, not the British Army - not any army. It is an absurd and obscene concept. I'm not denying there are many moral individuals but you can't qualify an army as moral. Armies kill. There may be other types of justification, valid or not, well intentioned or not – whatever. But moral they are not – sorry.
"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men."
Lord Acton
What's wrong with UN Peacekeepers? Why are you calling them incompetent? I'm not familiar with them so I'm not sure what you mean exactly?
Oh please. Totally irrelevant to the topic of whistleblowers. And that's just your opinion on who's in fact living in la la land. Personally, I can't believe you'd actually repeat – let alone BUY that nonsense: Yah, suuure, it's our freedom (the one you guys are arguing we should happily give away!) they hate. You forgot to tell us that “if you're not with us, you're with the terrorist” blah blah It's amazing anyone can seriously repeat that crappy propaganda in 2013. La La Land, much?
Bullshit. Utter and complete bullshit. If your suggestion is to take the lame propaganda as truth, that's your choice but I'm not drinking that kool-aid. I guess your indoctrination was a great success. Up is down, down is up. Assault is defense, defense is assault. Freedom is authoritarianism, authoritarianism is freedom. What else?
Listen carefully. THAT'S what the truth sounds like:
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Probably can't handle that much, huh? Reverting back to..... <a href="http://www.smileyvault.com/" title="lalala"><img src="http://www.smileyvault.com/albums/userpics/10404/lalalala.gif" border="0" alt="lalala" title="lalala" /></a> ??
It's not like there is a huge difference between the US government and corporations. Lol Just like the banks, there is such a revolving door that it's hard to tell where one ends and the other begins. It's a huge incest orgy so I'm not too sure how you make that distinction.
The enemies. Don't you think they already kinda knew their communications were probably monitored? How do you figure knowing that the NSA took the liberty of monitoring everyone else's communications, both in the US and around the world. Explain to me how that makes any difference to them or to those whose job it is to find them? That's the Snowden leaks. As far as Bradley Manning's (not Marshall to who clearly has been following this issue very closely considering he can't get the name right to begin with
anyway...) leaks, there have been at least 2 reports done already that have shown that they did not cause any damage or put anyone at risk. It was embarrassing but not damaging.It's pretty interesting that you would frame our right to privacy and to, you know, not be spied on, as....a collective weakness. LOL My friend, you would LOVE China. (I mean, listen to yourself!)
I'm not going to say it was the CIA because I can't pretend to know. But neither do you. Because there is one certainty about it that is incontestable and that is the fact that the official story or explanation for the tragic events that occurred that day, contains many flaws, inaccuracies, implausible and impossible claims, as well as unexplained events. And until these are answered, no one can claim to know exactly who/how/what/when caused the several attacks and the resulting outcomes and remaining evidence from each site.
That's not an unreasonable, marginal or particularly controversial conclusion - no tinfoil hat required!There *are* many unanswered questions and many answers that don't make any sense. Anyone who spends a very short amount of time looking into the questions that have been raised on several aspects cannot possibly claim the official explanation sufficiently and entirely accounts for everything.
Unfortunately it's becoming quite clear that some people vehemently oppose and attack anything/anyone who dares to question or challenge their trusted Masters, so I would assume this would be the case for this too. Suit yourselves if you need that security blanket to make sense of the world. But I don't and I'm not in denial about facts. So, really people, keep that little bubble that envelops you and ignore anything sharp that threatens to pop it but don't pretend try to pass it off as reality to the rest of us.
No one said terrorism doesn't exist. I did say (and provide the evidence) that terrorism is not a big threat, not by a long shot (I believe I commented on the title of the article that said something to the effect of being more at risk of being killed by your furniture than of terrorism.) but you and others still insist (and without providing any facts whatsoever to support it) on pretending that 1) terrorism is a huge threat 2) spying on everyone has demonstrated to successfully prevent terrorism and keeping people safe from terrorist attacks. Why is that? Do you think we'll suddenly forget that actual evidence does exist and that it contradicts your claims?
Can I ask why so many of you clearly haven't followed this but have such strong opinions based on claims that are completely false according to information that is available publicly and has been for quite some time? What is it about facts that is so scary for you guys? I'm genuinely puzzled and curious as to why information is seemingly so undesirable and it's somehow preferable to repeat falsehoods and lies? (I'm posting it in this reply but the question is directed at a few others who appear to not be concerned with the actual truth either)
------------
Note: Not trying to dump on you but I find your comments very misguided and not grounded in reality whatsoever. But my comments are equally directed at other posters who share the same views as you, I just happened to quote your comments to respond to specifically but most of it applies to other posts on this thread as well. I may sound like I'm picking on you or trying to start a fight but I'm not, it's just the way I write. If I was explaining it to you in person, I wouldn't be screaming or angry, I would just be animated, probably exasperated and expressive – hopefully that makes reading my comments less frustrating if you realize I'm not in your face, wagging my fingers or anything like that. (I think that's what people imagine from the way I write. For the record: I'm totally not.lol)
Totally agree with you. These people should go to China and have their government spy on them in exchange for security from phantom terrorists as much as they want and people who value democracy, freedom, privacy and truth can stay and fight to keep them. Give away your rights elsewhere all you want if they're not important to you but don't give mine away. It really blows my mind how people can seriously be so indignant that people would denounce governments that have betrayed their citizens.
In the end, it's another one of these issues where opinions will be polarized but while we can agree to disagree, we can't simply be complacent and step aside because these people are defending and inviting authoritarianism (if not totalitarianism), conformism and blind acceptance of absolute government power, control and credulity to all the propaganda and manipulation of those who wish to have that power. They're advocating the deliberate surrender of freedoms in a search for security from a boogeyman that doesn't exist. That's scary stuff.
Because it's obvious that this position actively favours ignoring or denying any facts that might contradict their emotional reactions. The fact that the same declarations are made without any sort of fact in support and that any opportunity to become aware of some facts is avoided leads to the conclusion that ignorance of any details crucial to an informed opinion is in fact deliberate and desired - is quite disturbing, to say the least. I have no illusions that anyone is likely to be able to change that. The only thing to do is to not allow the establishment boot lickers give away everyone else's rights in their desire to obey their master... And hope they one day get a backbone and start asking questions instead of mindlessly towing the line and repeating the propaganda fed to them. Until then, they're traitors and puppets, no different than the criminals, crooks and liars who pull their strings.....
<a href="http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php" title="Smiley"><img src="http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-whacky084.gif" alt="Smiley" border="0" /></a>
I've had this book set aside to read for a while now and this is reminding me I should do it soon. The author made it available for free online if anyone else thinks this is really creepy and wants to understand what makes people so deferential to authority even when it means ignoring facts.
It is here: http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/
Some of you are seriously creeping me out.
I am closing this topic. It is the usual suspects stepping on any that disagree, nothing new to see here.
- Status
