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Ship collision,,I just don't get it

Sphubby

Living the Life
Jan 22, 2015
234
6
18
Vancouver
Tanker and ship collision near Shanghai leaves 32 missing

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-42594249

I just don't understand how this could happen. Airplane collisions, ok two planes travelling 600 or mph combined speed if traveling at each other 1200mph, the space between them gets small very quickly. Two big ass ships, one tanker one a freighter traveling about 25 knots. Been on one, spent 6 months on 730' laker as 4th engineer, doesn't go anywhere very quickly. (also doesn't stop very quick either) Would be like watching two turtles at opposite ends of your driveway having a collision at the middle.

How could you possibly collide with another ship????? Radar, wheelman, lookout, minimum of 2nd mate on bridge. Radar down, ok then three watch-outs posted at all times. Two ships, two radars plus backups down? not bloody likely. Everyone asleep?

There have been a couple similar collisions with US warships in the last couple years which makes even less sense. Billion dollars of tech and hit another ship, damn someone should be spending time behind bars for that one.

My guess, ICBC and RCMP should get involved lol See other post https://perb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?245993-Distracted-driving-ticket Everyone watching netflix.
 

Billiam

Nowhere Man
Jun 24, 2009
491
20
18
While your post paints an accurate picture of typical conditions/challenges at sea, I still think the collision on the tarmac at Pearson this week is even more baffling.
One plane completely stopped, waiting in line for an opening, and the second dragged into it by an airport worker, presumably with a spotter of some kind.
Planes were barely moving on a steady surface - can't wait to hear the explanation put forth by the union on this one.
 

badbadboy

Well-known member
Nov 2, 2006
9,560
40
48
In Lust Mostly
Tanker and ship collision near Shanghai leaves 32 missing

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-42594249

I just don't understand how this could happen. Airplane collisions, ok two planes travelling 600 or mph combined speed if traveling at each other 1200mph, the space between them gets small very quickly. Two big ass ships, one tanker one a freighter traveling about 25 knots. Been on one, spent 6 months on 730' laker as 4th engineer, doesn't go anywhere very quickly. (also doesn't stop very quick either) Would be like watching two turtles at opposite ends of your driveway having a collision at the middle.

How could you possibly collide with another ship????? Radar, wheelman, lookout, minimum of 2nd mate on bridge. Radar down, ok then three watch-outs posted at all times. Two ships, two radars plus backups down? not bloody likely. Everyone asleep?

There have been a couple similar collisions with US warships in the last couple years which makes even less sense. Billion dollars of tech and hit another ship, damn someone should be spending time behind bars for that one.

My guess, ICBC and RCMP should get involved lol See other post https://perb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?245993-Distracted-driving-ticket Everyone watching netflix.
The US Navy has had two collisions the past 12 months. Main reason is operator error due to lack of experience. Especially in the waters off China, Singapore etc. Those are the busiest ports in the world and an experienced navigator is a must.

If you think about it, 90 % of the goods (not food) we buy is brought to us by container ship. It's the busiest and lowest cost mode of transport in the world. Like any low margin business, the employees are the lowest paid. That is why there are very few flagged vessels from USA, UK. Germany etc. Local union pay would apply. If the crew is South Asian, Asian etc on an Iberian flagged ship, you can bet they are lowly paid and experience may be in doubt.
 

nmjoff

Member
Sep 9, 2005
763
17
18
Ships all navigate at sea level if all the aircraft in the world were flying at the same altitude there would be 10 collisions a day. Also large ships have a thing called advance and transfer and they just don't turn or stop with an aircraft you can go up or down with a ship you can only go left or right or stop.
 

MissingOne

awake but not woke
Jan 2, 2006
1,942
58
48

storm rider

Banned
Dec 6, 2008
2,569
4
0
Calgary
Wow all of this attention and interest and even hype that happened on the other side of the planet.Meanwhile in Canada we have NIMBY activists who act out because of Lieberal rich white guilt or they are part of the earth cult religion and are collectively opposed to the Kinder Morgan Pipeline expansion....a pipeline that has been operating for more than 4 decades.How many hull ripping collisions have happened in the Burrard Inlet?How many nasty oil spills have happened at the oil terminal that has been operating for 40+ years?

Yet those same people DRIVE cars and buy products that are derived from oil.Want that fancy new I Phone 10+....no problem says the hypocrite as he/she uses it to film a trendy protest they attend because they feel guilty about being rich.....not that they would give away the money though that they got through multi generational inheritance.

Thats just life on the "left coast"....lots of hypocracy as well as a huge serving of nut job idiots.

SR
 

Amuse0ne

Member
Jun 30, 2015
168
3
18
Vancouver Island
A lot of transport companies give lip service to Safety few truly embrace a real culture of safety within. This requires a total commitment by the owners, managers, designated safety officers and vessel operators to a system of training, drills, reporting on and following up on any incident or concern. Good equipment & technology helps but it can only do so much and it takes years for a good safety culture to mature.
 

summerbreeze

New member
Sep 19, 2004
1,943
2
0
maneuverability is the main issue

in deep water a tanker would take maybe 3 kilometers to stop, over a kilometer to turn fully around

big ship, lots of momentum, tiny rudder, single screw

warships are more maneuverable of course but these deep sea vessels do not turn on a dime or stop
 

tehp8rkpv

Banned
Mar 29, 2017
137
0
0
Wow all of this attention and interest and even hype that happened on the other side of the planet.Meanwhile in Canada we have NIMBY activists who act out because of Lieberal rich white guilt or they are part of the earth cult religion and are collectively opposed to the Kinder Morgan Pipeline expansion....a pipeline that has been operating for more than 4 decades.How many hull ripping collisions have happened in the Burrard Inlet?How many nasty oil spills have happened at the oil terminal that has been operating for 40+ years?

Yet those same people DRIVE cars and buy products that are derived from oil.Want that fancy new I Phone 10+....no problem says the hypocrite as he/she uses it to film a trendy protest they attend because they feel guilty about being rich.....not that they would give away the money though that they got through multi generational inheritance.

Thats just life on the "left coast"....lots of hypocracy as well as a huge serving of nut job idiots.

SR
What are you talking about?
OP was insightfully referring to the logistics that allow for something like this to happen.
Please explain the "hypocrisy" in the post?
 

summerbreeze

New member
Sep 19, 2004
1,943
2
0
A lot of transport companies give lip service to Safety few truly embrace a real culture of safety within. This requires a total commitment by the owners, managers, designated safety officers and vessel operators to a system of training, drills, reporting on and following up on any incident or concern. Good equipment & technology helps but it can only do so much and it takes years for a good safety culture to mature.
that was the case many years ago but not these days

one problem is that for an officer to be on watch late at night, staring at the radar periodically, it has been known for certain people to have a hypnotic effect and they literally don't see things on the radar screen if they drift off in a hypnotic trance from time to time

not all accidents are necessarily negligence
 

mrman848

New member
Feb 14, 2017
66
0
0
A corrupt system leads to more people getting jobs they are not qualified for through nepotism and patronage.

To put it simply: Incompetence.

And incompetence spreads more incompetence. And since they are incompetent they become corrupt because they don't want to lose their job.

This is how civilizations fall.
 

Mrmotorscooter

Active member
Dec 20, 2017
431
24
28
A corrupt system leads to more people getting jobs they are not qualified for through nepotism and patronage.

To put it simply: Incompetence.

And incompetence spreads more incompetence. And since they are incompetent they become corrupt because they don't want to lose their job.

This is how civilizations fall.
You are correct, incompetence couldn’t tell the difference between a competent employee or not and would feel threatened by the competent one. This is costing the Canadian economy Billions every year.
 

Amuse0ne

Member
Jun 30, 2015
168
3
18
Vancouver Island
that was the case many years ago but not these days
BP's Deep Water Horizon, the Korean Ferry disaster, the Costa Concordia to name a few these are all recent cases and these companies had dismal safety records, you can't just blame it on the in-actions of a few individuals. It's a systemic cancer within the company and operations.
 

summerbreeze

New member
Sep 19, 2004
1,943
2
0
in Canada safety records are taken seriously, the accidents you talk about in the above post are not Canadian corporate entities

would not say from an educated perspective you could tar the entire global industry with one brush, many countries have very good safety standards

given the number of vessels on the water, the percentage of accidents is quite small.

AmuseOne, do you work in the maritime industry at sea and speak from first hand experience?
 

Mrmotorscooter

Active member
Dec 20, 2017
431
24
28
We just seem to have a problem on the pristine part of our central coasts sensitive habitats with large American fuel barges breaking loose and Tug boats sinking. As well as BC ferries going to the bottom, one ship was down there for 70 years before the correct technology came along to pump it out. There will always be a threat and even if it is small it only takes ONE big one and we will have a major disaster that likely we will have to pay ourselves to clean up as these big guys have a way of passing the buck.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/fuel-barge-off-coast-of-bella-bella-bc-1.4420713

http://vancouversun.com/news/local-...out-thousands-of-litres-of-fuel-not-recovered

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/b-c-shipwreck-s-oil-cleanup-makes-waves-1.2125796
 

summerbreeze

New member
Sep 19, 2004
1,943
2
0
guess by your non answer, you don't work in the marine industry so you are guessing that safety is not a priority

if you had worked in the industry you would know that all officers on ships either engineering side or deck side have to be licensed and are held to an international standard

those licenses take as long as 10 years to complete depending on the level to be obtained. master mariner or chief engineer are the two senior most certifications. these officers have log books regarding their historical employment

it is possible but highly unlikely that most mariners who were educated in the western world would risk their license over profits for a company and they are protected by international law to operate as they see fit as well as being pressured by unions to observe safety

while accidents do happen and companies do try and cut corners, it is not quite as corrupt an industry as you (presumably a landlubber) make it out to be. safety corners don't get cut like they used to because the punishment for infractions involves going after corporate individuals as well as the companies themselves.

the marine industry will put a chairman, ceo, superintendent, master mariner, engineer, in jail as well as a hefty personal fine for deliberate violations of safety standards.

when I said, it used to be but not very much anymore, these penalty changes are the reasons. fines can be over $1million but it is the jail time which has most corporate entities as well as senior mariners worried

when a new mariner gets signed on a new ship, in most cases the master or chief with give a hefty lecture regarding safety so there will not be any carelessness contributions or lack of safety attitudes

far cry from the old days
 
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