Sexism at the border - I'm sorry but this is despicable!!

[the old maxx50]

It is amazing how the world is turning in to that which was wrote about in 1984
Or one just like what the world faught wars to stop happening
the world of Comunist Russia .. China and even Nazi Germany have reared there ugly head here because fear has allowed us to allow laws that encurage this type of behavour
and animals of our own making are now the terrorising the free and democratice countries

 

[Tugela]

Well, no actually it's not one idiot. It's several of them, a detailed record flagging her as a prostitute so that she gets to be pulled aside, accused of being a prostitute I wonder what happened to her travel partner while she was held for hours? Can't know for sure but it sure doesn't sound like he got the same humiliation, intimidation, threats and treatment. Who knows, maybe he got accused of being a gigolo with a couple of winks and a pat on the back.

Anyway, thanks for not getting it. Maybe they should start performing virginity tests too.

I'm glad we are in agreement that of course it shouldn't happen to anyone, that's the whole point. Just because border guards have a lot of power doesn't mean we need to accept it without condemning it.

The problem is that people do go to the US for the purposes of prostitution, which is illegal in most places there. That being the case, if they suspect you of traveling to the US for illegal purposes, of course they are going to give you an interogation. they are not going to look the other way.

The overwhelming majority of women are not subjected to what the OP reported, and the majority of immigration officials (in my experience) might be humorless, but by and large they are not unreasonable, so why is she being singled out so much?

If she has been flagged as someone possibly committing illegal acts in the US, then yes, she is going to get looked at closely every time she goes there.

 

[cherise]

interesting advice, I was pricing a trip this summer and notice a big saving if I go to Seattle, but then the added time and hassle might not be worth it

when travelling to nassau a few years back,we decided to fly out of sea-tac as it was literally half of what it would have been from yvr. we discovered the hampton inn . the rate for four of us was under 100 bucks for one noght it included continental breaky, a shuttle to the airport and FREE secure parking for the duration of our trip. we were going for two weeks and parking at the airport would have cost alot more and we were able to take our time and not worry about missing a flight due to traffic or parking problems car trouble etc. it was the most stress-free vacation i ever had .

 

[Caramel]

I didn't know adultery was a crime in North America...lol, had to look it up too, in Florida though:

"In Florida "Living in open adultery" (Art 798.01) as well as "Lewd and lascivious behavior"(Art 798.02) which includes, among others, a man and a woman who "not being married to each other, lewdly and lasciviously associate and cohabit together" are both misdemeanors of the second degree.[65]" From Wikipedia so not sure if its accurate.

Anyway this girl sounds like a working girl, or someone who doesn't live her lifestyle the way the American government expects you to. So I can totally see why it happened to her over and over again. Its different if you were born in America, because obviously girls in America are very slutty...but I think it's dismissed if you're an American citizen and live there, as opposed to being an immigrant visiting.

I can totally relate to the Canadian border at the airport, when I was 15 they held me for over 3 hours, and I was crying and shaking the whole time...because I had cigarettes in my bag...lol, I know thats wrong but it was so scary, and they treated me horribly. They blacklisted me til I turned 18 or 19 I think, but I didn't travel in air again til I turned of legal age anyway.

 

[huggzy]

Why on earth would you not expect sexism at the border??? That is what immigration/border security do.

Every person is going to be profiled at the border and then interrogated based on that profile and past history. If you look, act and have history like a pot head immigration is going to focus their questioning on you as if you were one. If you're of Middle Eastern descent they are going to question you based on that profile.

If your job history comes up blank (oh right...she's currently writing a book), you're a hot female, carry sexy undergarments, and travel with different, married men internationally on a regular basis then you're going to get questioned as if you were a) unemployed and looking to work in the US, and/or b) an escort (she was extremely lucky that the fact that she was sleeping with this married guy in an adulterous relationship didn't bring down the banhammer if they suspected her of prostitution - which is a crime in the US...whether we agree or disagree with their laws)

And what did she expect was going to happen when she told the guard that his question was "none of his business"? Each and every male on here knows that if we said that when at a border crossing that we should expect the apocoplypse to be upon us.

Furthermore, as another poster said, we don't know the other side of the story either.

I've walked through airport security, been pulled out for interrogation, and been accused of carrying explosives onto a plane (I can tell you that was a lot less fun then what this woman was going through). I simply could not believe that I could find myself in a position of being accused of this!

It turned out that the electronic baggage sniffers picked up some residue on my construction boots while walking a job site that had rock blasting done on it.

When these guys have any kind of suspicions raised and start interrogating you they do not pull any punches. Don't think for one moment just because you're a woman that they are going to walk on egg shells just to avoid hurting your feelings. If you don't want to have to ever deal with these guys you do have a choice - that is to stay out.

Does this woman have a history of being argumentative with border patrol? When was the last time she did work in a legit job? How often does she cross the border with different men? What is her past history like? We don't know any of this.

I can tell you this - if someone asked me to guess what this woman's occupation was based on the information provided by this article, I would not rule out the possibility that she was an escort. And that is enough for these guys to send the dogs on you.

And even as far as sexism...I don't even think that is what this is. It is very rare to find male escorts in our society, so if someone who crosses the border happens to fit the profile of a person who could practice prostitution, then by default they are almost always going to be female. This isn't being sexist. This is just the way it is.

 

[PlayfulAlex]

Anyway this girl sounds like a working girl, or someone who doesn't live her lifestyle the way the American government expects you to. So I can totally see why it happened to her over and over again. Its different if you were born in America, because obviously girls in America are very slutty...but I think it's dismissed if you're an American citizen and live there, as opposed to being an immigrant visiting.

I know it was early in the morning when you wrote this :nod: but I think the paragraph requires a little explaining before you get some heated response!

 

[Caramel]

I know it was early in the morning when you wrote this :nod: but I think the paragraph requires a little explaining before you get some heated response!

What do you mean? Slutty American girls? Slutty girls exist world wide...lol, its not meant as an insult, its a fact. Fine, "promiscuous"

 

[susi]

many workers experience this kind of harassment going into the US. it is a result of the anti human trafficking rhetoric and new policies to combat it. maybe people will understnad now why i am so up in arms about false/unethical data being held up as fact. its slut shaming, plain and simple and is the latest form of oppression facing sex workers in particular migrant ones.

i would think anyone who enjoys the company of asian sp's who are migrants would be up in arms over this....

this is on a government of canada website and sending along for those who may be interested - it's intended to tell our Border patrol people what to do with anyone who turns up at the border looking sexy and like they might know how to dance.


http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/bulletins/2012/ob449.asp


Operational Bulletin 449 - July 13, 2012
Work Permit applications for Temporary Foreign Workers for businesses in sectors where there are reasonable grounds to suspect a risk of sexual exploitation of some workers

Issue

This Operational Bulletin provides operational instructions to Citizenship and Immigration Canada (CIC) on the Ministerial Instruction of July 14, 2012, on processing work permit applications from temporary foreign workers seeking to work at a business that is in a sector where there are reasonable grounds to suspect a risk of sexual exploitation of some workers.

Background

Authority for Ministerial Instructions is derived from section 87.3 of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act (IRPA). The Instructions are being issued to ensure that the processing of applications and requests is conducted in a manner that, in the opinion of the Minister, will best support the attainment of the immigration goals established by the Government of Canada.

On July 14, 2012, Ministerial Instructions were established for Work Permit Applications submitted from both within and outside of Canada. The Instructions state that applications from foreign nationals seeking to work for an employer that is in a sector where there are reasonable grounds to suspect a risk of sexual exploitation of some workers are not to be processed.

Guidelines for not processing applications:

These Instructions apply to applications received by CIC on or after July 14, 2012.

New and extension applications received by CIC offices prior to July 14, 2012 shall be processed as per previously existing instructions.

These instructions apply to all work permit applications where the applicant is destined to work for a business as described below, or to perform contract work for the business or on its premises (including on a self-employed basis), irrespective of the specific occupation that the applicant is intended to fill at that business.

When in receipt of an application to work in a business that is in a category that is covered by the instructions (i.e. in a sector where there are reasonable grounds to suspect a risk of sexual exploitation for some workers), officers are instructed not to process these applications. Applicants affected by these instructions shall be informed that their application is not eligible for processing and their processing fees shall be returned.

For the purposes of these instructions, strip clubs, escort services and massage parlours are considered businesses where there are reasonable grounds to suspect a risk of sexual exploitation. These instructions should be applied to all businesses in these categories.

Officers should take care not to refuse applications involving businesses where employees have qualifications and credentials that are regulated and certified by provincial authorities, such as massage therapy clinics.

In addition, if a foreign national in the occupation of exotic dancer is destined to a bar or hotel that only has an exotic dance performance occasionally and would not normally be considered a ‘strip club,’ the establishment will be considered a ‘strip club’ for the duration of the Foreign National’s performance and the business would become ineligible as per the Ministerial Instructions.

Open Work Permits

As per subsection 185 (b) of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Regulations, all open work permits shall have the following condition placed in the visible remarks section of the document:

Not valid for employment in businesses related to the sex trade such as strip clubs, massage parlours or escort services;

This condition informs the work permit holder that employment, self-employment, or contract services in this sector are not permissible. If an employer operating a business in any of these sectors did hire a holder of an open work permit, it would potentially be in violation of IRPA s.124 for employing “a foreign national in a capacity in which the foreign national is not authorized under this Act to be employed”. This could lead to the punishment of the employer by a fine of up to $50,000 or imprisonment for a term of up to two years.

the US has worse policy....

love susie

 

[Caramel]

Why on earth would you not expect sexism at the border??? That is what immigration/border security do.

Every person is going to be profiled at the border and then interrogated based on that profile and past history. If you look, act and have history like a pot head immigration is going to focus their questioning on you as if you were one. If you're of Middle Eastern descent they are going to question you based on that profile.

If your job history comes up blank (oh right...she's currently writing a book), you're a hot female, carry sexy undergarments, and travel with different, married men internationally on a regular basis then you're going to get questioned as if you were a) unemployed and looking to work in the US, and/or b) an escort (she was extremely lucky that the fact that she was sleeping with this married guy in an adulterous relationship didn't bring down the banhammer if they suspected her of prostitution - which is a crime in the US...whether we agree or disagree with their laws)

And what did she expect was going to happen when she told the guard that his question was "none of his business"? Each and every male on here knows that if we said that when at a border crossing that we should expect the apocoplypse to be upon us.

Furthermore, as another poster said, we don't know the other side of the story either.

I've walked through airport security, been pulled out for interrogation, and been accused of carrying explosives onto a plane (I can tell you that was a lot less fun then what this woman was going through). I simply could not believe that I could find myself in a position of being accused of this!

It turned out that the electronic baggage sniffers picked up some residue on my construction boots while walking a job site that had rock blasting done on it.

When these guys have any kind of suspicions raised and start interrogating you they do not pull any punches. Don't think for one moment just because you're a woman that they are going to walk on egg shells just to avoid hurting your feelings. If you don't want to have to ever deal with these guys you do have a choice - that is to stay out.

Does this woman have a history of being argumentative with border patrol? When was the last time she did work in a legit job? How often does she cross the border with different men? What is her past history like? We don't know any of this.

I can tell you this - if someone asked me to guess what this woman's occupation was based on the information provided by this article, I would not rule out the possibility that she was an escort. And that is enough for these guys to send the dogs on you.

And even as far as sexism...I don't even think that is what this is. It is very rare to find male escorts in our society, so if someone who crosses the border happens to fit the profile of a person who could practice prostitution, then by default they are almost always going to be female. This isn't being sexist. This is just the way it is.

I totally agree, great post! This woman was carrying condoms, lingerie, and travelling with a married man, what did she expect from Americans?

 

[susi]

I totally agree, great post! This woman was carrying condoms, lingerie, and travelling with a married man, what did she expect from Americans?

human rights? respect? how can we think this is ok or should be expected....?

 

[Caramel]

Misogynist!!!

lol, I am a feminist.

 

[vancity_cowboy]

it's a very common interrogation technique that every trained law enforcement agency employs - put the subject under stress to see what they blurt out

nothing more, nothing less

that's what the repetitive searches are all about, the repetitive questions, the insults, the apparent 'stupidity' of the interrogator 'misinterpreting' your responses, the verbal aggression, etc.

males undergo the same stress tests, albeit catered to attack their male ego

watch any of the border crossing 'reality' shows on tv to see what they do

 

[SFMIKE]

You know for a fact, eh? Please share with the rest of us your source. I seriously doubt your statement. There will likely be some, but "a lot"?

I know for a fact a lot of the older border guards are retired school teachers and after years and years of having kids lie to them they suspect everybody. Try ridin across with your bike and catchin an a-hole inspector, you will spend quite a bit of time while he searches all around the rim of your leathers for a hidden joint he hopes to find inside. They also drop cameras in the gas tank and do a thorough bike tech inspection, it doesn't happen often but when it does its a huge pain in the ass that can really sour your day. It's still worth it cause once across the world's best ridin roads are yours to be had and the MC community down south are a very welcoming bunch!

 

[luvsdaty]

Canadians are definitely more gung ho about there jobs than the Americans.I always just tell them(Amercan border guards) that i'm going to the casinos & they usually let you go right away.I never take my phone or my lap top(if i wanna call back home,i"ll just get a calling card & use a pay phone) Canadian border guards have always given me the 3rd degree upon re-entry into Canada.

 

[badbadboy]

Canadians are definitely more gung ho about there jobs than the Americans.I always just tell them(Amercan border guards) that i'm going to the casinos & they usually let you go right away.I never take my phone or my lap top(if i wanna call back home,i"ll just get a calling card & use a pay phone) Canadian border guards have always given me the 3rd degree upon re-entry into Canada.

This is actually quite incorrect. In a former life, I was working for six months without a work visa in the USA. After X number of crossings, I was hauled in for further questioning by a US Immigration official who told me the fines and possible deportation would effect further entry into the. USA. I immediately hired a US attorney to speed my application through their system. It was expensive but permitted me to work without fear in the US.

All along my US competitors were given an easy ride when they came up to Canada to visit Canadian customers. I contacted Canada Border Protection Agency to ask why and they felt it was part of NAFTA and it was the US not applying the agreed upon rules fairly. Big surprise.

 

[wilde]

None of us know the whole story but crossing the borders of any country is not the time to be holding your moral high ground, cute or a smart ass. Your objective is to get across immigration with minimal questioning/inspection/harassment.

Years ago, I went down to Seattle to take an exam for a US professional designation. I was questioned for 3 hours because why else would a Canadian citizen do that if he wasn't thinking about working in the US illegally. Finally, I saw a supervisor and I tried one last time to explain to him that said designation is recognized around the world not just in the US. I guess I appealed to his sense of pride in his country (a little buttering up always help), he let me in without further hassle.

In this story, many will argue that the US immigration is guilty of sexual harrassment, being the self-appointed moral police, unreasonable, etc., etc. I am willing to bet that just as many people will argue that the US immigration was just doing its job properly. Which side of the fence do you stand?

 

[wilde]

Do you think that berating her for having condoms and travelling with a married man is just doing their job?

Some might consider that working (therefore illegally)!

 

[AA_Train]

I have had zero problem with US Border Officers and I absolutely love going to the US. If you think going through Canadian Customs is a treat, you're fooling yourself.

Ya, the same with me. In fact, I found Canadian border guards to be pretty dickish, especially at the truck crossing. The best of a bad lot seem to be at Aldergrove. I guess they are pissed off because being a border guard isn't the glamour job the recruiting video made it to be lol.

 

[Tugela]

I think sometimes it goes too far, and this is one of those cases. Without proof of her working illegally in the country, or doing anything illegal, it is not ok (IMO) to detain and harass her. Do you think that berating her for having condoms and travelling with a married man is just doing their job?

I understand if someone seems suspicious for drugs, weapons, smuggling, or working illegally... but speculation and harassment is another story entirely.

That is assuming that she is not exaggerating. When people become indignant they often lose focus on the facts of the matter and the story becomes highly embellished in the retelling.

 

[Tugela]

many workers experience this kind of harassment going into the US. it is a result of the anti human trafficking rhetoric and new policies to combat it. maybe people will understnad now why i am so up in arms about false/unethical data being held up as fact. its slut shaming, plain and simple and is the latest form of oppression facing sex workers in particular migrant ones.

You are missing the bits where:
(A) It is completely illegal to be a prostitute in allmost all of the US.
(B) It is completely illegal to enter the US with the intent of working without a visa.

There are no ifs, buts or anything else about it, it is very clear, and it is their job to filter out people intending to do those sorts of things.

Sticking your head in the sand isn't going to change those basic facts. Pretending that laws don't exist when you darn well know they do, is, well......

It has nothing to do with oppression. You just make yourself look foolish saying stuff like that. How do you expect people to take your comments seriously?