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Sex laws under attack

BcMod

SEMI RETIRED FROM PERB
Jul 7, 2006
269
8
18
I am by no means a lawyer, but what I have always wondered is

if women have the right to choose an abortion under the basis of "it's my body and you can't tell me what to do with it" why does the same principle not apply to the sex trade industry?
 

susi

Sassy Strumpette
Supporting Member
Jun 27, 2008
1,501
435
83
57
@the Meat Market!!!lol
i agree hank, it is not the courts place to implement a new legal frame work. that will be debated and argued about in parliament. i'm sure many drafts of propsed legal frame works will be submitted and we are still building the structure for self governance with government oversight, as in any industry.

it was pointed out to me that factories are routinely inspected for safe working conditions,etc and we should expect to be subjected to the same. for people running ethical businesses this will not be a problem as we will have input into the definition of safe working conditions as negotiated by all sides...customers, business owners, mainstrem society and workers.

in new zealand it is known as the prostitution law review committee....it seems to work well to dispell myths about decrim......i believ we could work within a frame work like this...

what do others think?

2008 report from new zealnd prostitution law review board;



http://www.courts.govt.nz/prostitution-law-review-committee/publications...



Introduction

This report presents the Prostitution Law Review Committee's (the Committee) review of the operation of the Prostitution Reform Act 2003 (PRA) three to five years after the Act's commencement, in June 2003. The purpose of the PRA was to decriminalise prostitution (while not endorsing or morally sanctioning prostitution or its use); create a framework to safeguard the human rights of sex workers and protect them from exploitation; promote the welfare and occupational health and safety of sex workers; contribute to public health; and prohibit the use in prostitution of persons under 18 years of age. The PRA also established a certification regime for brothel operators. This report fulfils the Committee's obligations to report on specific matters and make recommendations to the Minister of Justice on its findings.

The Committee's report is research based and draws heavily on the work of the Christchurch School of Medicine (CSOM) and Victoria University's Crime and Justice Research Centre (CJRC). The CSOM and CJRC reports are available on the Ministry of Justice website: www.justice.govt.nz.

Estimation of the Number of Sex Workers in New Zealand

Baseline estimates of the size of the sex industry were provided in the Committee's first report, The Nature and Extent of the Sex Industry in New Zealand: An Estimation (2005). To the extent possible, the baseline data is compared with more recent estimates carried out for this report. However, caution must be applied to any estimate of the numbers of people involved in the sex industry. Direct comparisons between pre- and post-decriminalisation figures are possible only for Christchurch where an estimation using comparable methods was undertaken in 1999 (CSOM, 2007).

In the Committee's first report it was estimated that there were 5,932 sex workers in New Zealand. The current report estimates the number of sex workers to be 2,332 in the areas included in the study. The Committee does not consider that this means the numbers of sex workers in New Zealand have declined by 3600 over five years. Rather, the different estimates are the result of the limitations of the initial data collection methods, and the more robust methodology used to estimate numbers in the current report.

The research divides the industry into three sectors: private indoor workers, street-based sex workers, and managed workers (generally those working in brothels). A 2007 estimation of numbers of sex workers in five centres (Auckland, Wellington, Christchurch, Hawke's Bay and Nelson) found a total of 2332 sex workers. A comparison between the number of sex workers in Christchurch in 1999 and 2006 shows that the total has stayed approximately the same over that period. The study does not indicate that there has been any increase in the number of street-based sex workers in Christchurch over that period, contrary to some public perceptions.

Accurately counting the number of sex workers remains difficult. However, the Committee endorses the findings of the CSOM that the enactment of the PRA has had little impact on the numbers of people working in the sex industry.



The Use of Under Age People in Prostitution

The PRA makes it an offence to arrange for or to receive, or to facilitate or receive payment for, commercial sexual services from a person under 18. The offences carry a maximum penalty of seven years' imprisonment. It is not an offence for a person under the age of 18 to provide commercial sexual services.

The Committee considers that the threshold of 18 years should remain. The existing threshold acknowledges the vulnerability of people used in under age prostitution and recognises that there is a difference between commercial sexual activity and other sexual activity. The Committee also believes that the PRA should remain consistent with the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child and the International Labour Organisation Convention 182.

The CSOM survey found that under age people used in prostitution made up 1.3% of the total number of sex workers surveyed. The Committee does not consider the PRA has increased under age involvement in prostitution. The Committee believes the passage of the PRA has raised awareness of the problem of under age prostitution, and that this is a positive consequence. A very small percentage of young people who are sexually active are active in the context of prostitution. Further, few young people who can generally be termed 'at risk' are involved in prostitution.

The Committee is concerned that 17 year olds 'fall between the cracks' in terms of government support, being too old to be eligible for assistance from Child Youth and Family Services, and to young to be eligible for income support. The Committee was advised that the Independent Youth Benefit (IYB), available to 17 year olds in certain circumstances, is difficult for some young people to access. The Committee recommends that the Ministry of Social Development develop strategies to assist at risk young people in accessing the financial support they are entitled to.

Street-Based Sex Workers

The Committee endorses the findings of the CSOM study that 'the numbers of street-based sex workers have remained stable since the enactment of the PRA, with comparable numbers on the streets to estimates done prior to decriminalisation'. The CSOM survey found that the street-based sector made up 11% of the sex industry in 2006, making it by far the smallest sector.

Complaints about street-based sex workers have predominantly been made about the Christchurch and Manukau street prostitution areas. The Committee concludes the effects of street-based prostitution can be managed through proactive measures taken by local councils (the provision of lighting and street cleaning), Police (Police presence to discourage disorderly or anti-social behaviour), and NGOs (providing support services). Further, because under age people are more likely to work in the street sector, a Police presence is necessary to discourage clients seeking contact with under age people. Such Police action should be used in conjunction with other child protection measures.

The Committee considers that the purpose of the PRA, particularly in terms of promoting the welfare and occupational health and safety of sex workers, cannot be fully realised in the street-based sector. The Committee recognises the danger street work poses to sex workers, and acknowledges the concern and upset it causes communities. The Committee considers street-based sex workers should be encouraged to either move to a safer, indoor setting, or leave sex work altogether.
 

HankQuinlan

I dont re Member
Sep 7, 2002
1,744
6
0
victoria
if women have the right to choose an abortion under the basis of "it's my body and you can't tell me what to do with it" why does the same principle not apply to the sex trade industry?
Because more people were willing to fight the friggen' Christians for abortion rights than are willing to stand up for sex trade workers. Logic alone doesn't give anyone rights, unless you keep up a relentless advocacy to point it out.

Why doesn't the same logic apply to "the war on drugs"? Same reason.
 

treveller

Member
Sep 22, 2008
633
10
18
Arm Chair Critic

Susi, you presented yourself extremely well. The only person who was close was the lawyer, Alan Young.

As for your closing comment, "Thanks for having me!", am I the only one who heard that two ways? Priceless. Sorry, couldn't resist.

As for Terry-Jean, I think she also contributes positively. She is outrageous and the press will love that. The more press she gets, the more people get used to thinking or talking about prostitution and that will help with the political front. At the same time her comments will have no effect on the courts.

Susi, you were hot. Well Done.
 

AlwaysLooking

New member
Oct 11, 2006
79
0
0
Wonderland
I have no problem with a hooker as my next door neighbour - it's the clientele I don't want...

As far as decriminalizing goes...I say more power to it. Regulation and standardization should be the goal.

Imagine if all those micro amp's had to actually buy a business licence or pay taxes on the 'donations' - hmmm, maybe the city would finally get around to paving my back alley...

I agree that the cost of pooning will probably go up...but hey, it is a luxury - not a necessity, so big deal I'll spend more the few times I go...however, I'll be more selective and a board such as this will have even more clout in weeding out the substandard sp's.

Besides, if it's value I want...I'll just make a few extra sp visits during a trip to Montreal or Quebec...
 

Picklebreath

Banned
Apr 27, 2009
8
0
0
I have no problem with a hooker as my next door neighbour - it's the clientele I don't want...

As far as decriminalizing goes...I say more power to it. Regulation and standardization should be the goal.

Imagine if all those micro amp's had to actually buy a business licence or pay taxes on the 'donations' - hmmm, maybe the city would finally get around to paving my back alley...

I agree that the cost of pooning will probably go up...but hey, it is a luxury - not a necessity, so big deal I'll spend more the few times I go...however, I'll be more selective and a board such as this will have even more clout in weeding out the substandard sp's.

Besides, if it's value I want...I'll just make a few extra sp visits during a trip to Montreal or Quebec...
This makes me laugh: what kind of client are you then? hahaha

I don't think there is anything wrong with making a limit of how many can work out of one location, max 2. That should sort out the micros, and all the people that seem to hang out in them along with the sps. It also allows for a safety net for the sp, if she is not forced to work alone. Whether she does or doesn't, if it is illegal to work with one other sp, then all the lowlife types will know that and that can be a problem. It is when they do not know for sure whether she is alone or not that they would think twice about being a problem.

I don't think the traffic is quite as high as some might think, if there isn't 4-6 people working out of one location, plus a cut off time of midnight or so would deal with potential noise. I don't know too many clients or sps who make a big noisy production out of every visit, tho, so not sure what there will be to complain about.
 

susi

Sassy Strumpette
Supporting Member
Jun 27, 2008
1,501
435
83
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@the Meat Market!!!lol
i like the way you think peace guy...good planning...we will have a chance in vancouver to contribute to new by laws and city policy so at the very least i will remember your suggestions, unless you your self are willing to take part...i will keep people posted as to when and where.....:eek:
 

treveller

Member
Sep 22, 2008
633
10
18
TC Comment by Jody Paterson

Killing sex workers for their own good
Jody Paterson, Special to Times Colonist
Published: Friday, October 09, 2009

Sex work is back in the headlines again, and will be for some time with a constitutional challenge to Canada's prostitution laws finally underway this week.

I wish miracles for the three brave sex workers who launched the challenge. That's what they'll need to survive the savaging they're in for at the hands of those who staunchly oppose anything that might make it easier or safer to be a sex worker.

The case in front of the Ontario Superior Court is challenging three sections of the Criminal Code: The "common bawdy house" laws that make anything to do with operating a brothel illegal; the offence of procuring or living off the avails of prostitution; and the crime of communicating for the purposes of prostitution.

In deciding the case, Justice Susan Himel will gauge whether our prostitution laws are proportionate to their purpose, or whether they have the effect of forcing sex workers into unsafe situations where they can be preyed on by deviants and serial killers.

So let's ponder those two issues for a moment.

Sex work is legal in Canada, yet everything required for a sale to take place is illegal -- location, marketing, even the earnings. That renders the work just legal enough for men to be able to acquire paid sex anytime they like in any city, and just illegal enough to continue the pretense that Canadian society is hard at work trying to eradicate prostitution. What exactly IS the purpose of laws like that?

As for whether the impact of the laws is proportionate to their purpose, I can't wait to hear the arguments on that point. How many vulnerable women have died across Canada just in the last decade because our laws forced them to work out of sight in the rough parts of town, getting into cars with strangers? How could a gruesome impact like that possibly be proportionate in a civilized society?

What gets me the most about the laws around prostitution is the grand hypocrisy of it all.

We wrung our hands and wept for all the missing women when Robert Pickton's exploits were the news of the day. We went to their vigils. But we didn't do one thing that made life safer for the women working our streets.

We tell ourselves that only deviants and weirdos buy sex, and only victimized, desperate people sell it.

But Canadians of every stripe are frequenting the places where sex is sold and leading secret lives as part-time sex workers. Were a scarlet letter ever to appear on all the chests of people who have ever bought and sold sex, I think you'd be amazed to see who was in the club.

The sale of sex is a rip-roaring business in every Canadian community. Every moment spent denying that is another nail in the coffin of women working in isolation and danger on the nation's outdoor strolls. Outdoor work is the mere tip of the iceberg in terms of the scope of the industry, but it's certainly the place where the most negative impacts of our poorly considered laws are felt.

I understand the powerful emotions that drive the abolitionist movement. I know that some people have had tragic experiences in the sex trade. It's definitely a job for adults only, and even then it's not something that most people are cut out for.

But it's still a job. Occasional monsters and victims notwithstanding, the buyers are for the most part ordinary people. The sellers are by and large happy for the money. Meanwhile, those who aren't happy in the work take no solace from the law, because it can only punish them further.

I read an opinion piece the other day from an abolitionist exhorting Canadians to resist anything that might normalize prostitution as a legitimate career choice. That tired old argument is trotted out anytime someone dares to mutter about decriminalizing the industry: "Oh, horrors, your child could end up working as a prostitute!"

Read the research. Prostitution doesn't increase when it's decriminalized, because it's already so well-entrenched in every community that there's no increase in demand just because it's legal. All the men who buy sex are already buying it.

Nor is the growth of sex tourism much of a concern in Canada. Sex workers here are no more likely than any other Canadian to work for the pathetic, exploitive wages that sex workers earn in countries like Thailand.

And even if all that weren't so, surely we don't want to support laws that maintain an ugly and dangerous work environment just so our own daughters won't be tempted into that line of work.

Every woman who works in the industry is somebody's daughter. We owe it to all of them to fix this mess we've made.'

patersoncommunications@gmail.com
 

maroonedsailor

lookin for a liveaboard
Jun 10, 2007
541
5
0
IMHO - ok not so humble

First off lets understand the nature of the problem. Legislated morality and societal pimping.There are elements of society who feel the need to control the behaviour of others and there are elements of society who earn a living based on enforcing the controlers wants (or could we say needs here since control is an obsession with these people?) Drugs are bad, so drugs should be illegal and by making them illegal the problem will go away
Prostitutes are bad, so prostitutes should be illegal and by making them illegal the problem will go away. And so on and so on. If the "problem" does not go away (which, of course, it won't) the next step is to legislate criminality and sic the legal system on said "problem".

First we define the participant, be it sex worker, drug addict or whatever else is deemed undesireable, as a VICTIM and then proceed to punish said victim for allowing him or herself to become a victim. Brilliant. Meanwhile the legal system is employing thousands of workers to manage the "problem" Police, lawyers, judges, court workers, prison guards, dea agents etc. etc. amounting to BILLIONS of dollars in expenses to the taxpayers. This is the cost of being right.

Using the American example, the police officer (at 60,000 per year) arrests a street walker and hauls her into the station to be booked by the clerk (at 35,000 per year) who processes the offender and passes the presumed guilty individual on to the cell block to be managed by various and sundry individuals (earning from 20 to 85,000 per year) and presented to the court the following day to be sentenced and fined 1,000 dollars for engaging in bad behaviour. The VICTIM then, is supposed to go work at Walmart for 8 dollars per hour to pay said fine and must report to a parole officer who gets paid by the VICTIM for each and every visit. IMHO this makes everyone working the system a PIMP.
Judging by the percentage of inmates in US jails for drug and sex offenses, fully 60% of the legal system is supported by keeping drugs and prostitution illegal. That represents hundreds of Billions of taxpayer dollars and thousands of jobs. It also gets politicians re-elected again and again. Politicians who use drugs and buy sex workers. Twists your mind doesn't it? Talk about living off the avails. Makes me want to puke.

Nowhere in the system is anyone saying poor misguided victim, we really must help them find another way to survive this life, they only know how to judge and punish. It's the Christian way right? We don't care about why the druggie is addicted or why the sex worker is a sex worker and we certainly don't offer viable alternatives. Note I said viable. We treat stray dogs and cats with more respect.

The problem here is a psychological one. Moralists have a primary need to be RIGHT and will fight to the death rather than face the possibility of an error in their thinking. Think radical religious groups like the Taliban or the Catholic Church. Far more important to be right than to be happy. Politicians and legislators cater to that sickness. They make rules for everyone else to follow and act very offended when someone disagrees and/or refuses to go along with the program. That's what you're up against Suz.

Insanity (repeating unsuccessful behaviour and expecting a different result) combined with Money in large sums re-enforcing said insanity, is the nature of what you're trying to change. Joan of Arc would be intimidated.
 

Stella_Hardon

New member
Apr 29, 2006
335
2
0
From Monday's Province NewsPaper

Street prostitution — a scourge that must end

SEX TRADE: It’s spread from skid row and is now found in the ’burbs
METRO VIEW

It was around 11:30 a.m. on Thanksgiving, and Maple Ridge resident Michelle Rainey was going to her local gym when she saw a woman in her 40s she knows as Elaine soliciting on 225th Street.

Elaine looked haggard, Rainey told me. Her hair was a mess, she was wearing a filthy white tracksuit and needed $25 to pay a crack debt.

Rainey went over to talk to her and gave her $75, on condition she took the day off and gave herself and the community a break.

“I made her promise that she wouldn’t be on that walk for that day,” said Rainey, 38, who herself suffers from Crohn’s disease.

“I made her promise me that she would get a meal and a bath and wash her clothes.”

Yes, despite what many of us who live in the ’burbs want to believe, the Downtown Eastside is far from the only Metro Vancouver neighbourhood plagued by homelessness, drug addiction and street prostitution.

Rainey knows this first-hand. Three years ago, she and her husband left Gastown, where they lived in an apartment opposite a soup kitchen, and bought a home in Haney in the heart of Maple Ridge. It was a world away from offices of the Downtown Eastside where Rainey — the Marc Emery associate who in July was sentenced in Seattle to two years’ probation for conspiracy to manufacture marijuana — worked as vice-president of the B.C. Marijuana Party. Or so they thought. They left downtown Vancouver because they wanted a quiet, safe and affordable place to live, Rainey said. But a year-and-a-half ago, conditions in Haney started to deteriorate as marginalized people moved in. And now, when Rainey goes for her daily workout, hookers openly ply their trade on her street, and johns slow their vehicles to leer at her.

“It’s an uncomfortable feeling,” she says.

Seniors and others in the area are also concerned. And recently the police responded by arresting 15 sex-trade workers. The police crackdown, however, was criticized by a Maple Ridge News opinion piece, which said “arresting sex-trade workers only pushes them into hiding, making it more difficult to help them, and putting them at greater risk of harm.”

Rainey wrote a letter to the newspaper, saying that “victimizing and jailing addicted sex-trade workers is not a compassionate solution.”

Indeed, she told me, it saddens her deeply that with the Salvation Army and various churches close by, no one seems to be reaching out to addicted and abandoned women such as Elaine.

Rainey also said she agrees with three Ontario women who have gone to court to challenge provisions in Canada’s prostitution laws, arguing they contribute to the violence sex-trade workers face.

Myself, I think street prostitution is a scourge and it’s one that requires a carrot-and-stick approach. Sure, we need to show compassion by helping vulnerable women such as Elaine kick the drug addiction that’s destroying them. But we also must come down hard on those drug-dealers, johns and prostitutes who destroy an entire community.
 
Ashley Madison
Vancouver Escorts