sex addiction

[encarsia]

Wow this thread has gone off on a tangent. I thank all posters. Also thanks sharky for being honest about your recovery. I think every one has addictions that some how control big parts of there life. Be it old ladies and church or drugs etc. Some do more harm than others. There is no rules in life to determine what an addiction is as it different for everyone.

I believe there are just as many women as men that are addicted to sex.

 

[Sharky66]

Here is the question yet again (worded differently, yet again)

What education/training/specialization is there that makes one or more group of shrinks know what they are doing when the other group(s) does not?


Both you and Sharky66 keep referring to individuals being either good or bad at their jobs but the question this ignorant and clueless person is asking both of you is what knowledge separates their fields (Apples, Oranges, Bananas, Peaches and Pears)?

If as I believe, they are both trained mostly the same (based on the same principals of how the human brain works), then why not just say it?

You guys are really focusing on jobs that these people do and not what they learned to get the job, which is what my question is.

OK, lets remove their roles in society and focus on the basics.
Look at it this way.

“Git off ma porch!” (psychiatrist)
“I say old chap, would one be so kind as to move, just a little” (psychologist)
“Fackin move ya dingo” (psychotherapists)

All different, all speaking English.
Are all of your different “Experts” speaking the same language or not?



Guys, like I said, this is a bad week for time so if you can not or will not answer the question, I’ll have to just leave the thread and continue on in my blissful ignorance that all shrinks suffer the same flawed insight into the human mind and how it works.

You are making 2 assumptions (that I can identify at this moment): 1) that these mental health professionals have much the same training; and 2) that it is the training that is making one group "know what its doing and the other not".

You even concede that your assumption about the training is what you "believe", meaning you haven't any direct knowledge about it or you haven't done any research.

I will set out my assumption here: Mental health professionals do not have the same core training, or if they do, it is very basic and done very very early on. Ie. the first couple years of a BA or BSc. degree, or in community college. To be a therapist or counsellor, you need not have a PhD. or even a degree -- there are therapists and there are therapists. There are psychologists and there are psychiatrists. There are.... I think I went through this already...

So if there is basic common training that they have, it is the specialization that takes up the vast majority of their pre-profession training, and they (I assume), like most professionals, must continually update and upgrade their education on their chosen fields.

Also, when you say that they "speak the same language", I assume you mean that the could, essentially, all do the same job. So are you saying that an army private can fly a F-18 jet? They are both in the military and have had the same basic training.

That's why I talk about the different jobs. The training is largely different (except for the very basic stuff).

And you seem to be saying that there are only 2 categories - good mental health professionals (like the one helping me) and the bad mental health professional (who says that the convicted murderer is no longer a threat to society). This is a ridiculous concept because you are not talking apples and oranges here (yes, back to the fruit) - you are talking apples and photocopiers.

So your question: "What education/training/specialization is there that makes one or more group of shrinks know what they are doing when the other group(s) does not?"

My answer: "It is not the education/training/specialization that determines the competence of a given group of professionals. Each professional that is called upon for an opinion exercises his/her judgment based on his/her expertise and experience, coupled with his/her training."

My answer put in another way: "One forensic psyc expert can say a particular convicted killer is no longer a threat to re-offend, and another, with the same training, can say that the same convicted killer is a huge threat to re-offend and should never be let out ever."

My answer put in yet another way: "It has nothing to do with the training."

My answer put in yet another way and from a different direction: "Whoa there bud, you are barking up the wrong tree!"

 

[superhappyfun]

Out of 100 people currently seeing a shrink.
10 - should just be locked up or shot, no chance for them at all
10 - may be so messed up they need help and can actually be normal/productive/(whatever is most insulting to those who take offense that I have an opinion)
80 - just need the friend/bartender, someone honest with life experience to help sort them out or no one at all, just time and control of themselves.

Hi LIJ. Your comments about people who visit shrinks and lawyers would seem equally applicable to people who visit escorts. All three professions provide services that could theoretically be performed at lower cost by DIY enthusiasts themselves or by friendly bartenders. Sometimes that works out fine, but sometimes you can benefit from the skills of a professional.

 

[uncleg]

 

[amigo67]

that's hilarious!

 

[badbadboy]

Everybody is scrambling to find a Sharpie and do it one of their outlets now

 

[VanessaofBC]

Everybody is scrambling to find a Sharpie and do it one of their outlets now

Done!!!
.
.
.
..

.

 

[badbadboy]

What's with the shocked look on their faces?

Turned out to be dry Anal Sex.

 

[Cami Parker]

You'd have to define addict.... Love it, need it, can't live without it? Then yes, I suppose I am a sex addict, along with a food addict, water addict, oxygen addict, Pomeranian addict.... Lol ... There are plenty of things I culd never live without but I don't feel any of these So called "vices" effect my life negatively....

 

[Cami Parker]

Really? I have regulars that I see twice a week, and have since I moved back here.... I think that there's nothing wrong as long as they are maintaining... However, I suppose I have an addict mentality sometimes... Moderation is not in my vocabulary... If something feels good is causing no harm, I want as much as possible!

I've turned down clients who want to repeat too soon, too often and also refuse to see someone if I know they can't pay the rent or buy food for their kids cause they're spending money on SP's instead. I've always said that I never wanted to become someone's addiction, and watch for warning signs in my clients.

 

[Sharky66]

You'd have to define addict.... Love it, need it, can't live without it? Then yes, I suppose I am a sex addict, along with a food addict, water addict, oxygen addict, Pomeranian addict.... Lol ... There are plenty of things I culd never live without but I don't feel any of these So called "vices" effect my life negatively....

Hmmmm..... where to start.... Trust me, you are not a water or oxygen addict. If you are a Pomeranian addict, I would love to hear about it.

 

[Sharky66]

http://www.sexhelp.com/am-i-a-sex-addict/sex-addiction-test

This is the best one I have come across. Most of the shit online is 10 questions long and if you score a 2 you are a sex addict and you need to join their program. This one actually has some science behind it - and I don't score as an addict, which I am not, which I know for certain after going through a ton of useless counselling during my divorce. I am sex positive kinkster who likes to get laid regularly who chose very poorly with a repressed prude who couldn't express herself sexually and had some major personality issues and therefore assumed I was the one with the problem. If you score 7, 8 or higher on this assessment, you might have an issue.

I even sat through several SAA meetings, 12 steps of utter bullshit, unless you have blown your life savings on porn or escorts, were busted for child porn or have other addiction issues and cannot control yourself (ie get stoned and drunk and spend your rent money on escorts and coke) you have no reason to be seeking any kind of treatment for sex addiction, it's a scam and a buzzword through out there by an entire industry of conservative shame promoters who don't want people to enjoy their sex lives.

Glad you are not a sex addict, Haymitch, but that doesn't mean it is bullshit. In fact, you start out well-reasoned, but then you seem to deteriorate into a bit of a rant. I usually don't disagree with you, but I have to say, sex addiction is not a scam or buzzword. I am not a victim of conservative shame promoters. In fact, healthy sexuality is encouraged and part of recovery. Maybe there are conservative shame promoters out there who might latch on and use it for their own agendas, but that doesn't mean it is not a recognized condition.

Seems the label of "sex addict" was put on you inappropriately. That is unfortunate. I took on the label voluntarily because I felt my life spinning out of control. It is a difficult label. I am working to shed it. And no, I don't suggest that everyone who uses the services of SPs are sex addicts.

 

[Sharky66]

I think I have reached a point where I have said enough. Don't mean to be preachy.

 

[uncleg]

 

[VanessaofBC]

I think I have reached a point where I have said enough. Don't mean to be preachy.

Being a sex addict is kinda like being gay. You do not come out until you are ready.

When I "came out" to my friends they were less than surprised. In fact, I surmise to say that they knew before I did.

When all you can think about is sex and having sex or imagining others having sex these are indicators things are not going good....

edit: another good example, you cannot be left alone with the opposite sex.

 

[Sharky66]

People who would spend their rent money or kids college tuition on pooning instead of what it was for, the same way a gambler or drug addict does, in many cases, while high or drunk. What bugged me about it however is how broad and how preachy a lot of the treatment gets. If you are indeed an addict Sharky, I question what the heck you are doing on PERB, that has got to be off limits, inner circle behavior for any addict. While using an SP doesn't make you an addict, an addict using an SP is most certainly acting out and in no way staying true to their recovery.

Thanks. While I didn't spend rent money or made my kids go without (despite the large amounts I spent), it did adversely affect my life so I had to deal with it -- one addict's "rock bottom" may not be the same as another's.

Your comment re me being on PERB is fair, but I am just come by to check out this thread and others in the lounge. I have been reasonable okay re not seeing SPs. I view it as a mid-circle thing at the moment. Should I do this less? Of course.

A far-worse thing for me is to surf Erslist. I don't do that. And I try to stay away from the review section here.

When I "came out" to my friends they were less than surprised. In fact, I surmise to say that they knew before I did.

That your friends knew before you did is very telling, isn't it? And not uncommon.

 

[VanessaofBC]

...snip

That your friends knew before you did is very telling, isn't it? And not uncommon.

Very telling.

Anyone who know someone who has "come out of the closet" as LGBTQ should know what I mean. Half the time you know before they do.

 

[Flanders]

As with everything in life, there is a spectrum of Use, Abuse, Addiction. This applies to EVERYTHING. Eating, shopping, work, drugs, gambling, sex, exercise, smoking, emotions, etc.

A lot of people abuse alcohol without becoming addicted. One only needs to look at my university years for proof. Many many people have never gotten beyond "abuse" in anything, and have been able to get things back under control, on their own, unscathed (long term). However, with enough abuse, brain chemistry can and does change to the point that your internal wiring will cause you to seek out your desires, even when you know there will be negative consequences. The drive to "get high" over rides everything, including self preservation. Welcome to addiction. Once these addictive neural pathways have been formed, they are nearly impossible to undo. They can be managed with work, but the brain has a tough time un-learning things.

Like a cucumber soaking in vinegar, once the "pickle line" is crossed, it is no longer a cucumber. It is a pickle, and it won't go back to being a cucumber. That is like addiction. Folks who say addiction doesn't exist have probably never gotten beyond the abuse part of the spectrum, and haven't crossed to addiction where their particular vice rules every aspect of their lives. They are lucky. However, with a little bit of knowledge and education, and introspection/self discovery, it is pretty easy to recognize the signs of what behaviors are healthy or unhealthy. Not very many addicts get to the point of acknowledging that they are an addict without some intense personal blow up / hitting bottom.

I am a believer that addiction is a disease. The addict's vice doesn't matter (food, sex, drugs, whatever); the disease is the same for each of them. Inability to control their impulses wrt the particular vice. That is partly why when people quit smoking, they can put on weight. Nicotine is exchanged for food. The brain still get's its hit of dopamine & serotonin, just from a different behavioral input. Addiction is MUCH more common than most people recognize. Just that some of the addictive behaviors are less socially destructive, thus more tolerated. Dealing with addiction is more than just stopping the destructive behaviors. It's understanding and recognizing what is driving you to pursue those behaviors. Once THAT is under control, the addictive behaviors are much easier to manage.

Some common signs of addiction are:
1) Tolerance. The level of activity that used to get you "high" no longer works, hence continued ramping things up.
2) Failed attempts to stop a behavior. You set limits for yourself, then blow past them, justifying the reason for your change of heart or minimizing the consequences in your mind.
3) behaviors starting to have negative consequences to you, but you pursue them anyhow
4) delusional view of the world. Your reality is altered such that you don't see the obvious things that others see.

#4 is why most addicts get so bad before they bottom out. Things need to get so fucking bad that they just can't deny they have a problem anymore...

I'm not a doctor or a therapist; I'm speaking from my personal experience here. I can really relate to Sharky66's posts on this topic...

 

[Sharky66]

As with everything in life, there is a spectrum of Use, Abuse, Addiction. This applies to EVERYTHING. Eating, shopping, work, drugs, gambling, sex, exercise, smoking, emotions, etc.

A lot of people abuse alcohol without becoming addicted. One only needs to look at my university years for proof. Many many people have never gotten beyond "abuse" in anything, and have been able to get things back under control, on their own, unscathed (long term). However, with enough abuse, brain chemistry can and does change to the point that your internal wiring will cause you to seek out your desires, even when you know there will be negative consequences. The drive to "get high" over rides everything, including self preservation. Welcome to addiction. Once these addictive neural pathways have been formed, they are nearly impossible to undo. They can be managed with work, but the brain has a tough time un-learning things.

Like a cucumber soaking in vinegar, once the "pickle line" is crossed, it is no longer a cucumber. It is a pickle, and it won't go back to being a cucumber. That is like addiction. Folks who say addiction doesn't exist have probably never gotten beyond the abuse part of the spectrum, and haven't crossed to addiction where their particular vice rules every aspect of their lives. They are lucky. However, with a little bit of knowledge and education, and introspection/self discovery, it is pretty easy to recognize the signs of what behaviors are healthy or unhealthy. Not very many addicts get to the point of acknowledging that they are an addict without some intense personal blow up / hitting bottom.

I am a believer that addiction is a disease. The addict's vice doesn't matter (food, sex, drugs, whatever); the disease is the same for each of them. Inability to control their impulses wrt the particular vice. That is partly why when people quit smoking, they can put on weight. Nicotine is exchanged for food. The brain still get's its hit of dopamine & serotonin, just from a different behavioral input. Addiction is MUCH more common than most people recognize. Just that some of the addictive behaviors are less socially destructive, thus more tolerated. Dealing with addiction is more than just stopping the destructive behaviors. It's understanding and recognizing what is driving you to pursue those behaviors. Once THAT is under control, the addictive behaviors are much easier to manage.

Some common signs of addiction are:
1) Tolerance. The level of activity that used to get you "high" no longer works, hence continued ramping things up.
2) Failed attempts to stop a behavior. You set limits for yourself, then blow past them, justifying the reason for your change of heart or minimizing the consequences in your mind.
3) behaviors starting to have negative consequences to you, but you pursue them anyhow
4) delusional view of the world. Your reality is altered such that you don't see the obvious things that others see.

#4 is why most addicts get so bad before they bottom out. Things need to get so fucking bad that they just can't deny they have a problem anymore...

I'm not a doctor or a therapist; I'm speaking from my personal experience here. I can really relate to Sharky66's posts on this topic...

This is far better than anything I have said! Thanks.

 

[VanessaofBC]

encarsia, just remember., sometimes it is how you say things.

You want to keep the conversation pleasant and light hearted while respecting her boundaries. No one wants to fell like the wasted their time or hard earned money!