Self-deception

[juniper]

Watching "The Brothel Project" on television got me to thinking about the subject of self-deception with respect to clients (men) and SPs (women). I viewed Mia as she appeared quite helpless in comparison to the older and harder business women and the one journalist. I had never met her (Mia) but always wanted to. I wanted to meet her because her photos were so captivating, her sexuality so comprehensive and imaginative (according to advertisements and reviews) and her personality so warm. Yet when I saw her on video, she appeared to be attractive but on the plain side and not someone I would have sought out. Another example: The once famed Violet who received a fortune of plaudits and the highest rating of all SPs in Victoria was a slim girl but not curvaceous. She had a pretty face with delicate features but was certainly not outstanding to look at. So, I began thinking to myself that these women achieved reputations that did not live up to the objective facts. Furthermore, men appeared to characterize them for qualities they did not possess. In fact, when I read reviews which characterize SPs as "legendary" or "beautiful", etc., I begin to suspect the reviews and the men behind them.

I think men deceive themselves because the SPs they have sex with are able to provide them with the sexual adventures they are otherwise missing, the sensuality they cannot find elsewhere and/or the warmth which they need. In fact, most of these women probably have no other outstanding traits. At one time, there were a number of young, rather small SPs in Victoria including Sophia, Roxie, Seven and Mona (still working). Here's a guess: None of them achieved any honours nor uniquely positive reputations in highschool. Only as SPs, a year or two out of highschool, did they achieve something which gave them a sense of high self-esteem. Working as SPs, they became something special. They found that they were good/excellent at fulfilling mens' fantasies. The shelf life as an SP is rather brief, however. What happens when they are no longer dealing with men who are not so given to self-deception as we (pooners) are?

Okay, this is the first time I've started a thread. I'd be interested and curious about your replies and comments. Thanks.

 

[mimi]

Well, I remember thinking the same thing about musicians.

A lot of being on stage is about dressing up and putting on a performance. I was always surprised, after seeing the promo shots, and then meeting the musicians as we set up/tore down gear, that people looked so average and, well, normal off stage.

Really average and normal...take off the boots,the spandex (the eighties!) the make up etc...

So, the women you meet in the real world that seem quite ordinary may seem entirely different when they are all dressed and ready for their close up!

For example, when I was finished for the night and got off the stage I would wash off the make up and change into my regular comfy clothes. People would walk right past me and ask the other band members "where is that chick that was singing" cause my entire image changed.

But, when I was on stage I was smokin' hot!

 

[juniper]

Get past your indignation and political correctness, Nina, try to understand the commentary and reply to that. I note with interest that Mimi was able to supply an interesting and informative comment. Why can't you?

 

[juniper]

Dear Nina: As long as your job allows for public reviews, that's part of the risk yours and other SPs. No apology needs be made for making a negative review or rendering a negative perception. In other words, reviews may be hurtful. That's just the nature of reviews and an honest forum. As to my not having seen the SPs I mentioned, other than Mia whom I haven't seen, why do you assume I haven't seen the others or some of the others? Incorrect assumption, Nina. Read carefully. I am still very about to comments about the subject in question.

 

[juniper]

I thought I'd rewrite the above as my grammar was quite faulty. Basically, no apology is necessary. Reviews and perceptions of individual SPs' characteristics are what we do here. Yes, sometimes it can be hurtful. And sometimes the comments can be very favourable. Your compassion appears to be misplaced. As to whether or not I've personally seen the SPs whom I've mentioned, you (Nina) are making an unnecessary assumption. I only said that I had not seen Mia. Please read carefully. Most of all, I'd appreciate an interesting reply to my original post.

 

[Pillowtalk]

Well, for one thing, I think it is a bit delusional to expect sps to be women who could be that level of perfection that arer models, entertainers, or arm candy /trophy wives of wealthy men, because that level of perfection are doing other things lol.

I have seen loads of reviews of sps who are considered well above average looks, 9 - 10, who receive really bad reviews because obviously there is a lot more to these things than the sps looks.

Let's put it this way, the better the sp is able to make you feel, the better they will be reviewed. If they are also able to make just about everyone who sees them feel like they just had the best sex of their entire lives, there will be more rave reviews. would you rather the reviewer downplay the entire experience just because the sp is not a super model in looks or body? I think that would be not portraying the objective facts. The facts are that sps like MiA (who is very attractive, btw, in a sexy way) are able to provide a lot more than just their looks: sensuality, attractive, sexuality, attitude, and the fact is that they are praised for qualities that they DO possess, and the qualities that are far more important than youth, beauty and perfection. Those things are worth about 10% of any experience, as anyone who has seen a dead but perfectly beautiful starfish who, if not splayed out on the bed waiting for the ordeal to end, may be on top looking off into space.

Ask anyone who has that kind of experience who they would rather re-book with: a well-reviewed MiA, or a poorly reviewed supermodel lol. Reputations are not earned thru looks, but thru actions. Good reviews are not based on looks, but actions. It would be like reviewing a car (no offense to people), and deciding that one car is superior to another because it looks better. Nothing to do with performance or construction, just that it is a sporty red convertible and therefore "better" than the SUV.

I think specifically that is extremely odd to claim that these sps have no good qualities whatsoever outside of their ability to fulfill sexual desires? What sort of world does the OP live in, if he is defining all sex workers solely on their jobs, and nothing else. Should I determine that an auto mechanic is incapable of having a meaningful relationship with people, simply because his job is working on cars all day, not people?

Also, I wondered if you know the age of MOna? You describe her as only having a couple of years out of high school? I think she'll be flattered; she must really look good for her age. (no offense to Mona, just that I believe she is a mature sp, 30 something if I remember right?)

Beyond that, I hope that most adults don't define their lives based on what did or did not happen in high school, for good or bad. There are just too many stories of people who had dim high school memories who excel after graduation; all the reunion movies show the nerds and off beats having the better post secondary lives, don't they?

 

[Man Mountain]

Another example: The once famed Violet who received a fortune of plaudits and the highest rating of all SPs in Victoria was a slim girl but not curvaceous. She had a pretty face with delicate features but was certainly not outstanding to look at.

Eye of the beholder and all that but she was to me. And I'd love to be able to see her again. As for Mia, she's one of the rare SPs that's willing to show her face in her ads and if you like what you see in her images, I don't see how you could be disappointed with her in person.

On a lighter note: I tried to deceive myself once but it turns out that I was too smart to be fooled by myself.

 

[HankQuinlan]

I think men deceive themselves because the SPs they have sex with are able to provide them with the sexual adventures they are otherwise missing, the sensuality they cannot find elsewhere and/or the warmth which they need. In fact, most of these women probably have no other outstanding traits.

I do not understand the purpose of your post at all. What is the difference between 'deceiving yourself' and 'fulfilling a fantasy'? For the time booked, I very much want to 'deceive mysslf.' I have seen several of the providers you mention, including Mia more than once, and they all had the skills to fulfill a fantasy encounter very successfully. They were all outstandingly beautiful, and increasingly so, during the time for which I paid. Whether or not they met someone else's standfards of 'beauty' was not relevant, and whether or not they would turn my head if I saw them at a coffee shop in jogging sweats is not relevant either (although I am sure Mia would).

What they all had were the skills to make me feel special and priveleged for an hour or two, and that is exactly what I want for my money.

As for your speculation as to their motives, or their success in high school or other endeavours, or wheher or not they have other outstanding traits, there is no way you could possibly know, nor would it be relevant if you are absolutely correct. For all I know, they could each have many other outstanding traits. I find it offensive to speculate about their whether or not their self-esteem has other sources or outlets. As far as I am concerned, if they are good at their jobs, I really don't care about about their motivations, other than wishing them well and hoping they are happy.

It is all about the fantasy.

 

[Miss*Bijou]

As for your speculation as to their motives, or their success in high school or other endeavours, or wheher or not they have other outstanding traits, there is no way you could possibly know, nor would it be relevant if you are absolutely correct. For all I know, they could each have many other outstanding traits. I find it offensive to speculate about their whether or not their self-esteem has other sources or outlets. As far as I am concerned, if they are good at their jobs, I really don't care about about their motivations, other than wishing them well and hoping they are happy.

Thanks for addressing this, I found the OP's comment extremely offensive.. It's obvious he thinks little of what sp's do but seriously, how would he even know what kind of other skills or talents sp's may have? He makes a lot of assumptions based on things he doesn't know.

 

[JFF009]

He makes a lot of assumptions based on things he doesn't know.

I would agree that he made a lot of assumptions. I believe he made his assumptions based on the documentary and how they portrayed SPs. I didn't find it overly flattering towards SPs in general either however I didn't think that MIA was the issue. I thought she sounded good and looked great.

I was a little put off by a couple of the other industry people that were interviewed...and it had nothing to do with how they looked...they didn't sound like they knew what they were doing.

 

[juniper]

Thanks to everybody for replying, especially Mimi, Pillowtalk and Hank Quinlan. I understand now that the whole enterprise revolves around an entertainment session not unlike viewing a musician on stage whom the audience idolizes and wishes to possess yet, in offstage life, may be quite prosaic. The session itself is a kind of fantasy which men willingly sign on to in hopes that the fantasy is fulfilled. Tthose men who do not recognize it as a fantasy may become stalkers and complainers, a few of whom have illustrated the pages of PERB. The women who are successful SPs are those who can readily fulfill mens' fantasies. In such a situation, she becomes transformed into a beautiful or desirable and/or exciting woman while outside this context she may, in fact, be considered quite plain and/or uninteresting. Can the whole enterprise be likened to love and/or passion in which the man (or woman) loses his mind (becomes utterly irrational)? Think of Sappho and the remnants of her excruciatingly painful poetry re desire and jealousy. How many of you Readers have ever lost their minds over a woman (man) only to wake up when it's all over and ask, "Why on earth was I ever even taken by her in the first place?" I recall in the novels of Proust how the main character, taken by a much less intelligent but very sensual woman, literally followed her about, spied on her and was continually obsessed only to wake up one day and ask himself, looking back at the whole affair (English translation) "How could I have been so taken by a woman was not my type (mon genre)?

 

[BigBlue]

...The women who are successful SPs are those who can readily fulfill mens' fantasies. In such a situation, she becomes transformed into a beautiful or desirable and/or exciting woman...

There are all kinds of "love." Personally, I find myself able to be 100% in love with the woman I happen to be at the moment, fully appreciating her unique qualities. Then, stunted school boy horndog that I am, find myself in "love" with someone completely different a short time later!

 

[postiepete]

Watching "The Brothel Project" on television got me to thinking about the subject of self-deception with respect to clients (men) and SPs (women). I viewed Mia as she appeared quite helpless in comparison to the older and harder business women and the one journalist. I had never met her (Mia) but always wanted to. I wanted to meet her because her photos were so captivating, her sexuality so comprehensive and imaginative (according to advertisements and reviews) and her personality so warm. Yet when I saw her on video, she appeared to be attractive but on the plain side and not someone I would have sought out. Another example: The once famed Violet who received a fortune of plaudits and the highest rating of all SPs in Victoria was a slim girl but not curvaceous. She had a pretty face with delicate features but was certainly not outstanding to look at. So, I began thinking to myself that these women achieved reputations that did not live up to the objective facts. Furthermore, men appeared to characterize them for qualities they did not possess. In fact, when I read reviews which characterize SPs as "legendary" or "beautiful", etc., I begin to suspect the reviews and the men behind them.

I think men deceive themselves because the SPs they have sex with are able to provide them with the sexual adventures they are otherwise missing, the sensuality they cannot find elsewhere and/or the warmth which they need. In fact, most of these women probably have no other outstanding traits. At one time, there were a number of young, rather small SPs in Victoria including Sophia, Roxie, Seven and Mona (still working). Here's a guess: None of them achieved any honours nor uniquely positive reputations in highschool. Only as SPs, a year or two out of highschool, did they achieve something which gave them a sense of high self-esteem. Working as SPs, they became something special. They found that they were good/excellent at fulfilling mens' fantasies. The shelf life as an SP is rather brief, however. What happens when they are no longer dealing with men who are not so given to self-deception as we (pooners) are?

Okay, this is the first time I've started a thread. I'd be interested and curious about your replies and comments. Thanks.

I was wondering if anyone was going to make these comments after watching the show. I am sure many were thinking the same thing while only one guy had the guts to make the risky post. I also was very shocked at how everyone looked and I have met a few of these ladies before. Perhaps it is because we are used to seeing extremely beautiful people on TV? After watching Melrose place then seeing your average and below average looking people on the tube it makes it easy to compare and judge.

 

[juniper]

Thanks for your message of "non-condemnation" and support, "postiepete". I do find that the "politically correct" inevitably wins out and, as a result, undermines getting at the root of complex and sometimes messy concerns. To even be more forthright, I find that many of the men in "The Lounge" choose to "suck up" to the women whose voices are seen here. I have several more queries and would like to start new threads but figure I will get the most honest and most creative responses, as opposed to the most indignant ones, if I space them out.

 

[juniper]

This is what i meant, Ropey, you're a good example of what is meant by "politically correct".

 

[HankQuinlan]

This is what i meant, Ropey, you're a good example of what is meant by "politically correct".

Yep. Anywone who disagrees, who feels that women who provide sexual services may well have real lives and accomplishments outside of this profession, or who find in distasteful to speculate and generalize about women in the industry, are being "politically correct."

 

[island-guy]

I think that a lot of girls have a certain SOMETHING that you can't see in a photograph or a video.

I met a girl once who was nothing special to look at, average face, average body, pretty boring looking. Looking at photos of her, there wasn't really anything sexy or alluring about her.

But, in person, for some reason, when she walked into a room, every guy in the room wanted desperately to fuck her.

Maybe it was pheremones? I don't know.

I do know that she was an AWESOME lay, mind-blowingly so.

 

[*emmanuelle]

At best, this thread began poorly written, at worst, a cruel dig. Please do pardon me while I post my own views on this thing we call pooning....

What a lovely post!

 

[mimi]

Imagine interviewing the cast of Sex and the City in their everyday attire without the benefit of hair and make up.

I know that those callous shots of the asses of high profile celebrities that are plastered over the trash mags at the supermarket stores, certainly look different than how those same asses look on film.

Entertainment is about a fleeting distraction from the everyday toils we face.

 

[juniper]

Okay, I hear some of you regarding the difference between a woman in everyday attire as opposed to one who is made up and ready to "entertain". I am a man who does not like make-up on a woman and finds himself and his eyes darting towards women in everyday attire, some of whom are found to be extremely sexual. In fact, because they are not dressed for any particular occasion, I often find such women mysterious so much so that it makes me imagine, even dream about, how they would look just in a brassiere and panties and, eventually, nude and what it would be like to have sex with them. An SP who approaches me in regular clothing without make-up can often be far more alluring (to me) than one who dresses for the occasion. That's also the kind of woman who gets "under my skin" and keeps my mind stimulated.