Rough "play"

[MrSOG]

The situation that spurred this topic is from a visiting AMP lady. I've only seen "Chinese client only" or "no non-Asians sorry" for AMPs and agencies that host many visiting SPs who do not have English as their first language. In such circumstances, it is not uncommon that the SP is unable to build a very particular branding/marketing and any semblance of screening is done for her. Smaller sizing for dicks (statistically) means less risk of harm from that body part at least. They're praying by the numbers there.

I don't blame the SPs who choose this based off of their condition and comfort. If I was in such a position, I'd be on the cautious side too after bad experiences.

I've seen the Chinese client only thing and figured it was solely because of the language barrier. That I can understand. At one point in my life, good conversation didn't matter all that much to me, but I place far more importance on it now. And it 100% makes sex 120% better.

I can imagine it must be scary for an SP to deal with an aggressive client under any circumstance, let alone when you can't communicate your discomfort. Although, like my boy @ChromeGasCap said, read the room fellas and respect the cues.

 

[rinamood]

I've seen the Chinese client only thing and figured it was solely because of the language barrier. That I can understand. At one point in my life, good conversation didn't matter all that much to me, but I place far more importance on it now. And it 100% makes sex 120% better.

I can imagine it must be scary for an SP to deal with an aggressive client under any circumstance, let alone when you can't communicate your discomfort. Although, like my boy @ChromeGasCap said, read the room fellas and respect the cues.

I've had language barrier issues in my early days with a small handful of clients who did not seem to speak English fluently. I do wonder if it truly was a language barrier issue, or just some bad guys looking to get away with disrespecting me by pretending not to understand my denial of their requests. Is it just me, or is the denial of request quite easily understood even across languages if they give a fuck? 👀

I agree that good chemistry & good convo definitely paves the way for an extra fun time 🥰

 

[MrSOG]

I've had language barrier issues in my early days with a small handful of clients who did not seem to speak English fluently. I do wonder if it truly was a language barrier issue, or just some bad guys looking to get away with disrespecting me by pretending not to understand my denial of their requests. Is it just me, or is the denial of request quite easily understood even across languages if they give a fuck? 👀

I agree that good chemistry & good convo definitely paves the way for an extra fun time 🥰

Agreed. I once had a rendezvous with an SP in China. We both didn't have a clue what the other was saying. She was not okay with me trying DATY, and through some verbal signals and hand gestures, she made this clear. I didn't need to speak Mandarin or use a translator to pick up what she was putting down.

 

[gianni lotus]

It's safe to say it exists in some form and also safe to say it's none of the guys business.

It kind of is our business. Guys are the ones who do the terrible things to get on a list like this.

I used to work in the DTES. I was privy to "the bad date list" that would get circulated to warn providers about violent "johns". It was one of the most harrowing and depressing things I have ever read.

Story after story about getting raped, brutal beatings, and Johns not paying or robbing providers. I was shocked to read that people would do that but it was the frequency of it happening that was truly heartbreaking.

Maybe if more guys thought about how difficult, and sometimes dangerous, the job of being a provider is we would be a little more considerate and respectful? Maybe knowledge that a list existed would deter some of these guys from harming providers? Maybe? Or maybe it wouldn't matter to the kind of guy who does things like this? I don't know. It is sad that lists like these are necessary.

 

[lukom]

I've only seen "Chinese client only" or "no non-Asians sorry" for AMPs and agencies that host many visiting SPs who do not have English as their first language. In such circumstances, it is not uncommon that the SP is unable to build a very particular branding/marketing and any semblance of screening is done for her. Smaller sizing for dicks (statistically) means less risk of harm from that body part at least. They're praying by the numbers there.

I don't blame the SPs who choose this based off of their condition and comfort. If I was in such a position, I'd be on the cautious side too after bad experiences.

Very fair, but it is also a lucrative population. It's not like they're in a red neck small town with these restrictions. So they're probably doing well.

 

[rubylabellexo]

Lots of good discussion points here. For me personally, I don't mind if a prospective client clarifies a couple of things he's looking for in particular that may not be standard among providers, as long as he's come across as serious overall (thoughtful messages, polite, provides requested info etc). 'I was really hoping to experience X and Y in this session, are you comfortable accommodating that?'
If something is truly a deal-breaker, better to know ahead of time.

Otherwise, I'm more than happy to have a check-in at the beginning of our date where we cover any particular boundaries or desires. For kink sessions, unless discussed in advance, I will always do this.

 

[Larry's Torch]

Have the ladies ever had a board where they identified good/bad clients (eg. boundary pushers, considerate customers, generous tippers, etc.). I’m not advocating for it, I’m just asking if one has existed or does exist?

It's safe to say it exists in some form and also safe to say it's none of the guys business.

It kind of is our business. Guys are the ones who do the terrible things to get on a list like this.
(snip)

Basically it's HIGHLY likely there are threads in the "ladies only" section. You'd have to be a paid member to even see these, let alone access them.
Having it out in the open would turn it into a complete shit show and in all likelihood discourage the ladies from using it as they may become even more of a target from the offended douche bags/assholes.
Obviously a lot of thought and planning has gone into this site.

As far as the topic goes: I'm a bit of a sub; so clear concise communication and defined boundaries should be well established far in advance of any actual physical contact.

 

[rinamood]

Maybe if more guys thought about how difficult, and sometimes dangerous, the job of being a provider is we would be a little more considerate and respectful? Maybe knowledge that a list existed would deter some of these guys from harming providers? Maybe? Or maybe it wouldn't matter to the kind of guy who does things like this? I don't know. It is sad that lists like these are necessary.

Shitty guys could know about all of that and they'd think we had signed up for it; the worst people think they are entitled to harming us because we chose to work, the same way victims of terrible crimes are blamed when they chose "that dress" or "that skirt". I don't believe much would matter to those guys outside of real-life consequences affecting their daily life.

 

[MrSOG]

Shitty guys could know about all of that and they'd think we had signed up for it; the worst people think they are entitled to harming us because we chose to work, the same way victims of terrible crimes are blamed when they chose "that dress" or "that skirt". I don't believe much would matter to those guys outside of real-life consequences affecting their daily life.

I like to think guilt and empathy would catch up to them eventually. But I guess that isn't so great because you have to do bad things to even feel guilty about them in the first place. Although the fella who DM'ed yesterday calling me out for being soft seemed to shut up real quick when I asked if he thought his mother would be proud of him.

 

[Harmony-bc]

It kind of is our business. Guys are the ones who do the terrible things to get on a list like this.

I used to work in the DTES. I was privy to "the bad date list" that would get circulated to warn providers about violent "johns". It was one of the most harrowing and depressing things I have ever read.

Story after story about getting raped, brutal beatings, and Johns not paying or robbing providers. I was shocked to read that people would do that but it was the frequency of it happening that was truly heartbreaking.

Maybe if more guys thought about how difficult, and sometimes dangerous, the job of being a provider is we would be a little more considerate and respectful? Maybe knowledge that a list existed would deter some of these guys from harming providers? Maybe? Or maybe it wouldn't matter to the kind of guy who does things like this? I don't know. It is sad that lists like these are necessary.

The problem with having a public bad date list is the wrong people can see it. If a person knows he’s on a bad date list, he might target the girl that put him there more or he might learn to be sneakier.

 

[Harmony-bc]

I like to think guilt and empathy would catch up to them eventually. But I guess that isn't so great because you have to do bad things to even feel guilty about them in the first place. Although the fella who DM'ed yesterday calling me out for being soft seemed to shut up real quick when I asked if he thought his mother would be proud of him.

Some people are born or made without any empathy. The extreme would be Jeffry dahlmer, Ted bundy, etc. But there are thousands of every day psychopaths and sociopaths just walking around looking like you and me every day, doing normal people stuff

 

[MrSOG]

Some people are born or made without any empathy. The extreme would be Jeffry dahlmer, Ted bundy, etc. But there are thousands of every day psychopaths and sociopaths just walking around looking like you and me every day, doing normal people stuff

Throw in those that are simply seeking power over someone, in addition to those that lack empathy and remorse, and that's a significant handful of dudes out there. I do not envy SPs having to try and sift through the muck. The last SP I saw told me she hasn't had a bad date yet and I wish it to remain that way because she was a sweetie.

 

[MrSOG]

The problem with having a public bad date list is the wrong people can see it. If a person knows he’s on a bad date list, he might target the girl that put him there more or he might learn to be sneakier.

Respectfully, I'm not sure I agree but I am most definitely not a content expert here. The problem I have is that this kind of reasoning can be used to avoid naming and shaming anyone for any misgiving. If there is a real risk to the lady, then of course this option is off the table. But I think there could be an anonymous way to do this. I would so love to tar and feather and chop the balls off any abusive dirtbag. Metaphorically, of course. Of course.

 

[jgg]

Some people are born or made without any empathy. The extreme would be Jeffry dahlmer, Ted bundy, etc. But there are thousands of every day psychopaths and sociopaths just walking around looking like you and me every day, doing normal people stuff

You forgot Donald J. Trump.

 

[VinVan]

You forgot Donald J. Trump.

100% this.

Having a convicted rapist, convicted felon, and sexual predator (according to his buddy Musk) elected to run the most powerful country on earth is tacit approval of misogyny. When you get a lot of guys together in the same room without guardrails or restraint, you get, ta-da, the Canadian National Junior hockey team gang-raping women. And the whole of Hockey Canada enabling them and covering it up. These “adults” have completely lost the plot.

Is our society any more enlightened than the ones that came before it? I don’t know the answer to that, but It seems you can take the primate out of the jungle, but you can’t take the jungle out of the primate.

 

[MrSOG]

That took 2 pages of comments before it got political. New record.

I'll concede though that it doesn't help the ladies having a misogynist at the helm of the US.

I went to uni in a program where there were faaaaar more dudes in the room and only a few ladies. It was a sausage fest for 5 years. We always made the girls feel welcome, even when we were all out drinking and getting rowdy together. (ironically enough, some of those nights were in London). Never once did it occur to any of us to start a gang rape.

I myself truly believe the world is becoming more enlightened. It doesn't happen in a single generation, or even two. It takes time. And it only heads in the direction that we choose to guide it so let's keep doing that.

 

[Harmony-bc]

You forgot Donald J. Trump.

If I listed every psychopath and sociopath I’d be here all day. Trump is a sociopath tho, and not a psychopath if I’m going to arm chair diagnose him lol. The two I listed are actual serial killers. Trump may have killed people. Who knows what he’s doing when nobody’s looking? He’s definitely a shit human being but I didn’t think he needed to be said by name in this thread because this thread is about violence towards sex workers

 

[pooooooootatoman]

Throw in those that are simply seeking power over someone, in addition to those that lack empathy and remorse, and that's a significant handful of dudes out there. I do not envy SPs having to try and sift through the muck. The last SP I saw told me she hasn't had a bad date yet and I wish it to remain that way because she was a sweetie.

Yeah i only really see one provider and the idea of her having to deal with anything like discussed in the thread would break my heart a little.

I can't understand the mindset of people who would behave like that. Does it come from an insecurity thing? Detachment from reality based on porn? Or are they just deranged?

There do seem to be a lot of comments on threads that while not outwardly bad or anything, do reduce the women to their looks or ethnicity with no interest in the person and I guess unconsenting rough play could be an extension of how some people subconsciously view the ladies.

 

[80watts]

The problem with having a public bad date list is the wrong people can see it. If a person knows he’s on a bad date list, he might target the girl that put him there more or he might learn to be sneakier.

True.
But a public bad date list also means that someone on the list finds out, that person could sue for slander. Its the SP word against the bad date (She said/He said). In Canada you have to watch what you say/write against other people. We don't have free speech as the Americans do.

https://www.lexpert.ca/news/legal-faq/how-to-sue-for-defamation-a-step-by-step-guide/378735
1. Elements of defamation
Canada’s common law describes three elements that you must prove to win a defamation case:

1. That the printed material or statement was defamatory;
2. That the defamatory printed material or statement refers to you; and
3. That the printed material or statement was communicated to another person/s other than you.

So if a list exist, there are reasons it is not public.

 

[VinVan]

The two examples I gave in my previous post was meant to suggest that aggression/violence towards women doesn’t happen in a vacuum. If there are leaders or institutions behaving badly or looking the other way when this happens then then it’s reasonable to suggest that this type of behavior will increase in the general population. I think the general lack of civility in the world today is symptomatic of that.

In the current trial of the 5 former national junior hockey players, the media is fixated on whether the players are guilty; a verdict which can be undone by a technical error, or some inadmissible evidence. Clearly something terrible was committed and if the men are found not guilty, there are those, I’m sure, will will accuse EM of being a gold digger. She has my respect for the amount of courage it took to stand trial and expose herself to all the ugliness she has endured. The broader issue is not whether they are guilty, but how could this culture exist in a federally funded institution for decades? Would this be tolerated at the CBC? Canada Post?

Which is not to say that rough play is wrong or bad. Under the right conditions, and with consent, it can be very pleasurable for both giver and receiver. At the risk of being too obvious, sex is primal - and it’s this urge (that we all have - certainly those on Perb) that is the foundation of the whole SP industry. As we move further from hunters and gatherers we have come up with elaborate social rules (see BDSM community) to tap into the margins of this primal urge safely. It’s unfortunate that not everyone is up to speed on these conventions, but I hope that posts like this by MrSOG at least bring some self awareness to the relationship between boundaries and consent.