Roberto a Canuck for Life
- Thread starter owz
- Start date
Gotta say that I am not a big fan of guaranteed contracts but
it is the reality of 3 of the 4 major league sports (the NFL being
the only exception... and the most successful). IMHO its one
of those situation where once the genie is out of the bottle there
is little to no chance of the NHLPA giving in on this issue.
That aside, what do you think of the deal?
Historically, barring injury of course, franchise goaltenders tend
to out perform skaters as they age. You just have to look at
Roy, Bordeur, Hasek for more recent comparisons. Now the
issue is whether you can group Lui into this elite group of goalies
and there is definitely ample room for discussion there.
Personally, I think that the way it is structured right now with the
last 4 years structured at 1+ million per year, I would seriously
doubt that he will play until he is 42. At a 5.25 million per cap hit,
it sure does give us lots of flexibility wrt the salary cap. All in all,
if this deal gives us 8+ years of being a perennial contender then
I say that its not looking bad from my point of view. After all, if
we are always contending then it allows us to attract better free
agents and maybe catch lightning in a bottle along the way.
Bright side though, it sure looks better than this distant 6 year
$61 million Vancouver signing... doesn't it?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bryant_Reeves
Brodeur is at $5.2 million until 2012 and he will be 40 by then.
Lui will be $8+ million range during the same period and be what
most people would regard as the prime of his career at age 33.
You have to consider the economics of the time the contract was signed. The other factor is age/ earning potential.
http://www.nhlnumbers.com/overview.php?team=VAN&season=0910
can't knock Brodeur, but alo remember the goal keeper does not score the goals, So Marty has had a better team infront of him then Luongo. At some point you have to build up.....
I also think the problem with the long term contracts, if the player stops playing (and I am sure there are some conditions) the salary still counts in the cap.... I remember hearing something with a team this year..
A quick compilation of the average salaries of all the NHL starting goalies.
Henrik Lundqvist (NYR) - $6.75 million (age 27)
Ryan Miller (BUF) - $6.25 million (age 28)
JS Giguere (ANA) - $6 million (age 32)
Niklas Backstrom (MIN) - $6 million (age 31)
Mikka Kiprusoff (CGY) - $5.833 million (age 32)
Marty Turco (DAL) - $5.7 million (age 33)
Tomas Vokoun - $5.7 million (age 32)
Christobal Huet (CHI) - $5.625 million (age 33)
Roberto Luongo (VAN) - $5.42 million (age 30 based on $7.5+$63 for 13 years)
Evgeni Nabokov - $ 5.3 million (age 33)
Martin Bordeur (NJD) - $5.2 million (age 37 signed through 2012)
TimThomas (BOS) - $5 million (age 35)
Marc Andre Fleury (PIT) - $5 million (age 24)
Rick DiPietro (NYI) - $4.5 million (age 27)
Jose Theodore (WAS) - $ 4.5 million (age 32)
Ilya Bryzgalov (PHX) - $4.25 million (age 29)
Vesa Toskala (TOR) - $4 million (age 33)
Nikolai Khabibuliin (EDM) - $3.75 million (age 36)
Pascal LeClaire (OTT) - $3.6 million (age 26)
kari Lehtonen (ATL) - $3 million (age 25)
Chris Mason (STL) - $3 million (age 33 UFA after 2010-2011)
Cam Ward (CAR) - $2.667 million (age 25 RFA after this season)
Mike Smith (TBL) - $2.2 million (age 27)
Carey Price (MTL) - $2.2 million (age 21)
Chris Osgood (DET) - $1.4 million (age 36)
Dan Ellis (NAS) - $1.75 million (age 29)
Teams with no consensus #1
Craig Anderson (COL) - $1.8 million (age 28)
Peter Budaj (COL) - $1.25 million (age 26)
Mathieu Garon (CBJ) - $1.2 million (age 31)
Steve Mason (CBJ) - $0.905 million (age 21 RFA after 2012)
Ray Emery (PHI) - $1.5 million (age 26)
Brian Boucher (PHI) - $0.925 million (age 32)
Jonathan Quick (LAK) - $0.77 million (age 25)
Erik Ersberg (LAK) - $0.75 million (age 27)
Henrik Lundqvist (NYR) - $6.75 million (age 27)
Ryan Miller (BUF) - $6.25 million (age 28)
JS Giguere (ANA) - $6 million (age 32)
Niklas Backstrom (MIN) - $6 million (age 31)
Mikka Kiprusoff (CGY) - $5.833 million (age 32)
Marty Turco (DAL) - $5.7 million (age 33)
Tomas Vokoun - $5.7 million (age 32)
Christobal Huet (CHI) - $5.625 million (age 33)
Roberto Luongo (VAN) - $5.42 million (age 30 based on $7.5+$63 for 13 years)
Evgeni Nabokov - $ 5.3 million (age 33)
Martin Bordeur (NJD) - $5.2 million (age 37 signed through 2012)
TimThomas (BOS) - $5 million (age 35)
Marc Andre Fleury (PIT) - $5 million (age 24)
Rick DiPietro (NYI) - $4.5 million (age 27)
Jose Theodore (WAS) - $ 4.5 million (age 32)
Ilya Bryzgalov (PHX) - $4.25 million (age 29)
Vesa Toskala (TOR) - $4 million (age 33)
Nikolai Khabibuliin (EDM) - $3.75 million (age 36)
Pascal LeClaire (OTT) - $3.6 million (age 26)
kari Lehtonen (ATL) - $3 million (age 25)
Chris Mason (STL) - $3 million (age 33 UFA after 2010-2011)
Cam Ward (CAR) - $2.667 million (age 25 RFA after this season)
Mike Smith (TBL) - $2.2 million (age 27)
Carey Price (MTL) - $2.2 million (age 21)
Chris Osgood (DET) - $1.4 million (age 36)
Dan Ellis (NAS) - $1.75 million (age 29)
Teams with no consensus #1
Craig Anderson (COL) - $1.8 million (age 28)
Peter Budaj (COL) - $1.25 million (age 26)
Mathieu Garon (CBJ) - $1.2 million (age 31)
Steve Mason (CBJ) - $0.905 million (age 21 RFA after 2012)
Ray Emery (PHI) - $1.5 million (age 26)
Brian Boucher (PHI) - $0.925 million (age 32)
Jonathan Quick (LAK) - $0.77 million (age 25)
Erik Ersberg (LAK) - $0.75 million (age 27)
Someone stated in an earlier thread that if the player signs a contract before the age of 35 and then retires with years still left on the contract, the cap hit no longer applies. So this is how the teams get around the cap to pay the players more.
Signing Luongo to a long term deal is probably a good idea.
Signing him to a 12 year deal when the guy is already 30 is a legal maneuver to get around the salary cap rules.
I havent looked at the specifics of his deal, but I'm pretty sure that the deal is front loaded, that about 50 million of the 64 million dollars is loaded in the first 6 years.
I expect the league will try to plug that legal loophole in the next CBA.
Signing him to a 12 year deal when the guy is already 30 is a legal maneuver to get around the salary cap rules.
I havent looked at the specifics of his deal, but I'm pretty sure that the deal is front loaded, that about 50 million of the 64 million dollars is loaded in the first 6 years.
I expect the league will try to plug that legal loophole in the next CBA.
What a stupid signing. Just a fellow Italian owner helping another Italian
Ok, kidding aside, judging by his 2 mental lapses in the playoffs, how can this $$$ be justified? Everyone here knows the tough love that I give to my Nucks, but goaltending isn't the real problem. They need more proven, playoff scoring and a REAL quarterback on the powerplay, not an aging dinosaur like Schneider. Albeit, an upgrade, but get rid of Salo. Getting Ernhoff fr SJ was a great pickup.
But 12 years??? good for Luo, but this will bite the Nucks in Year 4 or Year 8, or whenever. Just a desperate signing to make things happen in this city, which I suppose, is much better than Stand Pat Quinn or Boring Nonis.
Ok, kidding aside, judging by his 2 mental lapses in the playoffs, how can this $$$ be justified? Everyone here knows the tough love that I give to my Nucks, but goaltending isn't the real problem. They need more proven, playoff scoring and a REAL quarterback on the powerplay, not an aging dinosaur like Schneider. Albeit, an upgrade, but get rid of Salo. Getting Ernhoff fr SJ was a great pickup.
But 12 years??? good for Luo, but this will bite the Nucks in Year 4 or Year 8, or whenever. Just a desperate signing to make things happen in this city, which I suppose, is much better than Stand Pat Quinn or Boring Nonis.
I've never been a big fan of paying huge money to a goalie, or long term deals for goalies.
But... This is a good way to get around cap restrictions, and a 5.25 mil cap hit is much better than I expected. Because he is under 35 at the time of the signing, he can retire before the end of the term, and the remaining years will not count against the cap. Plus, it is apparently very front end loaded, paying under 2 mil per year for the last 5, so there's no huge risk there. I look at it as a 6 or 7 year deal, with a cap hit of 5.25 mil... decent value.
People have compared it to the DiPietro deal with the Islanders, but they aren't even close. DiPietro is signed for a looong time, at big $ for the whole term... essentially neutering the Islanders Franchise. Luongo's deal has an exit strategy built in to it.
But... This is a good way to get around cap restrictions, and a 5.25 mil cap hit is much better than I expected. Because he is under 35 at the time of the signing, he can retire before the end of the term, and the remaining years will not count against the cap. Plus, it is apparently very front end loaded, paying under 2 mil per year for the last 5, so there's no huge risk there. I look at it as a 6 or 7 year deal, with a cap hit of 5.25 mil... decent value.
People have compared it to the DiPietro deal with the Islanders, but they aren't even close. DiPietro is signed for a looong time, at big $ for the whole term... essentially neutering the Islanders Franchise. Luongo's deal has an exit strategy built in to it.
BINGO. Snow signed him to a $4.5 million average WITHOUT FRONT LOADING THE CONTRACT! That's $4.5 million cap hit per year until 2021-2022. Good luck thinking that DP won't linger around to collect that $4.5 in that final year...
(guess that's what happens when you sign your backup goalie to be your GM )http://www.nhlnumbers.com/overview.php?team=NYI&season=0910&expand=y
And here is Lui's contract (the $6.75 cap hit is for the current contract expiring after next season)...
http://www.nhlnumbers.com/overview.php?team=VAN&season=0910&expand=y
Given that info, it's basically an 8 year deal, which is more than I would prefer, but the relief during the final 3 years is substantial, making it almost certain he will retire after year 8 or 9. It also gives him some trade value during the middle years of the deal, even if his level of play declines somewhat, because a team acquiring him will know it's not a long term commitment or a big cap hit.
Year 1 (2010/2011) -$ 10 million.
year 2 - 6.716 million
year 3 - 6.714 million
year 4 - 6.714 million
year 5 - 6.714 million
year 6 - 6.714 million
year 7 - 6.714 million
year 8 - 6.714 million
year 9 - 3.382 million
year 10 - 1.618 million
year 11 - 1.000 million
year 12 - 1.000 million
According to Gillis (Fan 590 interview) both parties have exits built in to the contract after a few years. He didn't say how many years or what the details were.
my opinion, as small and silly as it may be
Jess
Seems like a good deal to me...plus...who needs someone like Auld coming to the team??, not me! No thanks...Although we did not get to the Stanley Cup I believe Luongo has proven himself despite the flop at the last game. Give the guy a chance, and my goodness, you men are never happy when it comes to sport's trades, paychecks or coaches...
Jess
Yup, especially coming from Gillis, who had never been a fan of long-term contracts, as a GM...just a typical, hypocritical Canucklehead...sure, at the end of the day, the 12 yrs ain't going to affect my life or the Perbs or the Nuckleheads in this city personally, unless one has any moronic interest to watch overpaid athletes---playing ice hockey!!!!
Agreed, but then again, franchise goalies don't grow on trees. So I have no problem making an exception in this case.
This is a Franzen-type deal where the contract is front loaded. Plus, should Luongo start to suck in his late 30's, he can be bought out easily since his salary will be so low by then.
I also like the fact that his cap hit for the entire term of the contract will only be 5.3 million.
All in all, a good job by Mike Gillis.
Actually, it's even worse...
...the more this Luongo contract feeds off the blindness hysteria by the bandwagon fans in this city, why even bother paying a goalie that kind of $$$?
What Stanley Cup champion in recent memory where a goalie was the difference?
So the bandwagons say it's only $5.33 mil cap hit...well, if the Nucks quit friggin' overpaying stay-at-home Dmen like Mitchell $3.5mil/yr, you've got plenty of room to add TWO Top 6 forwards in this pathetic offense of ours...at least one sane fan out there who called in today reminded of some bad signings
Canuckleheads, need I remind you that we were ranked 25th in power play ranking, whatever it was, we're in the bottom third.
Let's scrap those Stanley Cup parades, shall we?
...the more this Luongo contract feeds off the blindness hysteria by the bandwagon fans in this city, why even bother paying a goalie that kind of $$$?
What Stanley Cup champion in recent memory where a goalie was the difference?
So the bandwagons say it's only $5.33 mil cap hit...well, if the Nucks quit friggin' overpaying stay-at-home Dmen like Mitchell $3.5mil/yr, you've got plenty of room to add TWO Top 6 forwards in this pathetic offense of ours...at least one sane fan out there who called in today reminded of some bad signings
Canuckleheads, need I remind you that we were ranked 25th in power play ranking, whatever it was, we're in the bottom third.
Let's scrap those Stanley Cup parades, shall we?
