References

[GeeBeeP]

What are references for? Passport renewals and job interviews (and not until right before they hire you.)

Ladies who don't work for Service Canada or not looking to hire, why don't you give us YOUR references from other SPs, just to be fair? We don't want last minute cancellations or get robbed either. And those who want to see IDs, please show us yours first.

You’re missing the point here. This is a business, pure and simple, and the ultimate free market. If you don’t like the menu at a restaurant or the prices, or they insist that you have shoes and a shirt, you’re free to move on to the next place. If you don’t want to follow the rules set out by a specific SP then don’t patronize her. If her business model is working for her its her business and no one else’s.

If your rules as a client don‘t suit her, then she is passing you up as a customer.

 

[SolidSnake]

You’re missing the point here. This is a business, pure and simple, and the ultimate free market. If you don’t like the menu at a restaurant or the prices, or they insist that you have shoes and a shirt, you’re free to move on to the next place. If you don’t want to follow the rules set out by a specific SP then don’t patronize her. If her business model is working for her its her business and no one else’s.

If your rules as a client don‘t suit her, then she is passing you up as a customer.

No point missed. I don't bend over backwards for someone I never met, just to risk my hard-earned money. But of course there are those who are willing to support such "business model", even to the point of giving out personal information on IDs.

 

[Persephone Grace]

No point missed. I don't bend over backwards for someone I never met, just to risk my hard-earned money. But of course there are those who are willing, or even eager, to support such "business model."

I find it it weird with the quotations. You can disagree but no need to be condescending. You keep your hard earned money and I keep my hard earned life. Win-Win. Sorry some of ladies don’t want to want to risk….. lives????? Does not make it an illegitimate business model. It’s clearly working for those who do ! All love

 

[rlock]

I think the references system is a good method in general, but of course it has flaws.

I don't think SW's are less trustworthy than the average person, but there are good and bad people in life generally, and whether a client or SW is the subject, there's no foolproof way to tell the honest from the dishonest with certainty (except bitter experience).

SW's who ask for references are asking other SW's "please assure me this guy was not a time waster, a ripoff artist, or an abusive psycho when he saw you". That's reasonable to ask.

If references are to work as a system of safety, they have to have not just assurance of trust between the two, but also some kind of "pay it forward" reciprocity - every SW who relies on references is taking a chance that the other one is being honest & responsible, not some sort of unreliable source. Still, even a flawed method of research still provides a filter; better than no reference at all, even if never considered a foolproof guarantee.


BTW: when an SW asks for your social media / PERB user name, etc., the object is also the same: security. They do not want a detailed account of your lusty exploits; they are trying to see if you're some kind of obnoxious asshole, because that's a red flag which correlates with inflicting abuse.
(So, if I ever give my PERB handle to an SW, it is for that reason. The SW can "get to know you" in terms of even more screening. It is NOT for bragging purposes, or acting like some over-demanding Yelp reviewer/influencer.)


All that being said, I hope that references remain as a screening method and do not disappear.

Here's my conundrum:

Two ATF providers that I see repeatedly, love spending time with, and who always have great client reviews (therefore enhanced assurance of trust in them), recently switched to not providing references at all (to anybody). Other reference-friendly SW's, I have not seen in years (thanks to COVID and other things); some might even be retired.
Now I have really only 1 reliable reference left, and she travels overseas frequently and is not very active online. I do not want to rely on only her, and then she will say "why does he see ask me for help with them more than repeating with me?" I certainly would not risk losing her just to take a chance with someone new.

Some I cannot use because they're the sort of lady you contact by text and might not have a web presence at all. And I can't use anyone from a group or agency, because no SW asking for references wants to be talking to someone else's agent/handler.

Do I need to ask out-of-town visiting SW's for a reference? Or those local ladies I might have seen only once? I do not want to break some reference-asking etiquette, and end up not only not getting the reference for the new SW, but annoying the previous one to the point where I can never get a repeat visit. And I would not ask a reference from any SW I did not have a good session with.

Lately, it gets desperate, every time I see an appealing ad and then have to figure out if I can even get through the screening process. The plain fact is, I do not see that many ladies, and only about half of those are ladies I see for the first time. How do I keep the chain of current references going, without taking the crass step of choosing to see ladies based only on whether they provide references in turn? Hmm.

 

[Persephone Grace]

I think the references system is a good method in general, but of course it has flaws.

I don't think SW's are less trustworthy than the average person, but there are good and bad people in life generally, and whether a client or SW is the subject, there's no foolproof way to tell the honest from the dishonest with certainty (except bitter experience).

SW's who ask for references are asking other SW's "please assure me this guy was not a time waster, a ripoff artist, or an abusive psycho when he saw you". That's reasonable to ask.

If references are to work as a system of safety, they have to have not just assurance of trust between the two, but also some kind of "pay it forward" reciprocity - every SW who relies on references is taking a chance that the other one is being honest & responsible, not some sort of unreliable source. Still, even a flawed method of research still provides a filter; better than no reference at all, even if never considered a foolproof guarantee.


BTW: when an SW asks for your social media / PERB user name, etc., the object is also the same: security. They do not want a detailed account of your lusty exploits; they are trying to see if you're some kind of obnoxious asshole, because that's a red flag which correlates with inflicting abuse.
(So, if I ever give my PERB handle to an SW, it is for that reason. The SW can "get to know you" in terms of even more screening. It is NOT for bragging purposes, or acting like some over-demanding Yelp reviewer/influencer.)


All that being said, I hope that references remain as a screening method and do not disappear.

Here's my conundrum:

Two ATF providers that I see repeatedly, love spending time with, and who always have great client reviews (therefore enhanced assurance of trust in them), recently switched to not providing references at all (to anybody). Other reference-friendly SW's, I have not seen in years (thanks to COVID and other things); some might even be retired.
Now I have really only 1 reliable reference left, and she travels overseas frequently and is not very active online. I do not want to rely on only her, and then she will say "why does he see ask me for help with them more than repeating with me?" I certainly would not risk losing her just to take a chance with someone new.

Some I cannot use because they're the sort of lady you contact by text and might not have a web presence at all. And I can't use anyone from a group or agency, because no SW asking for references wants to be talking to someone else's agent/handler.

Do I need to ask out-of-town visiting SW's for a reference? Or those local ladies I might have seen only once? I do not want to break some reference-asking etiquette, and end up not only not getting the reference for the new SW, but annoying the previous one to the point where I can never get a repeat visit. And I would not ask a reference from any SW I did not have a good session with.

Lately, it gets desperate, every time I see an appealing ad and then have to figure out if I can even get through the screening process. The plain fact is, I do not see that many ladies, and only about half of those are ladies I see for the first time. How do I keep the chain of current references going, without taking the crass step of choosing to see ladies based only on whether they provide references in turn? Hmm.

That is quiet the conundrum. I know many ladies myself included don’t take references ! However I have noticed other providers won’t have references as the main screening more as a supplementary.I guess your best bet is to just see ladies you like who don’t have that wall up.And hey if they are down to give you a reference … Win-win !!!!

 

[Bigfella2599]

I think the references system is a good method in general, but of course it has flaws.

I don't think SW's are less trustworthy than the average person, but there are good and bad people in life generally, and whether a client or SW is the subject, there's no foolproof way to tell the honest from the dishonest with certainty (except bitter experience).

SW's who ask for references are asking other SW's "please assure me this guy was not a time waster, a ripoff artist, or an abusive psycho when he saw you". That's reasonable to ask.

If references are to work as a system of safety, they have to have not just assurance of trust between the two, but also some kind of "pay it forward" reciprocity - every SW who relies on references is taking a chance that the other one is being honest & responsible, not some sort of unreliable source. Still, even a flawed method of research still provides a filter; better than no reference at all, even if never considered a foolproof guarantee.


BTW: when an SW asks for your social media / PERB user name, etc., the object is also the same: security. They do not want a detailed account of your lusty exploits; they are trying to see if you're some kind of obnoxious asshole, because that's a red flag which correlates with inflicting abuse.
(So, if I ever give my PERB handle to an SW, it is for that reason. The SW can "get to know you" in terms of even more screening. It is NOT for bragging purposes, or acting like some over-demanding Yelp reviewer/influencer.)


All that being said, I hope that references remain as a screening method and do not disappear.

Here's my conundrum:

Two ATF providers that I see repeatedly, love spending time with, and who always have great client reviews (therefore enhanced assurance of trust in them), recently switched to not providing references at all (to anybody). Other reference-friendly SW's, I have not seen in years (thanks to COVID and other things); some might even be retired.
Now I have really only 1 reliable reference left, and she travels overseas frequently and is not very active online. I do not want to rely on only her, and then she will say "why does he see ask me for help with them more than repeating with me?" I certainly would not risk losing her just to take a chance with someone new.

Some I cannot use because they're the sort of lady you contact by text and might not have a web presence at all. And I can't use anyone from a group or agency, because no SW asking for references wants to be talking to someone else's agent/handler.

Do I need to ask out-of-town visiting SW's for a reference? Or those local ladies I might have seen only once? I do not want to break some reference-asking etiquette, and end up not only not getting the reference for the new SW, but annoying the previous one to the point where I can never get a repeat visit. And I would not ask a reference from any SW I did not have a good session with.

Lately, it gets desperate, every time I see an appealing ad and then have to figure out if I can even get through the screening process. The plain fact is, I do not see that many ladies, and only about half of those are ladies I see for the first time. How do I keep the chain of current references going, without taking the crass step of choosing to see ladies based only on whether they provide references in turn? Hmm.

This is essentially what I was wondering when I started the thread. I appreciate the value of asking for references and I think it can make for a more enjoyable experience all around. It’s more about etiquette and the best way to navigate this world.
I do see a lot of providers strongly supporting one another on Twitter, so perhaps they are more reference friendly.
The way I see it is, when I’m going to meet an well know Indy vs a random of LL, I’m a helluva lot more relaxed going to see the well known Indy. They have worked to build and maintain a reputation which puts me more at ease, I don’t mind doing the same if it puts them at ease. At the end of the day a good session is win win for everyone.

 

[vanperb]

It just amazes me the amount anger that people have in critiquing other people's choices when it doesn't effect them at all. It doesn't restrict their behaviour or their wallets.

Is it because people need the attention or are they looking to pick a fight?

 

[GeeBeeP]

I think the references system is a good method in general, but of course it has flaws.

I don't think SW's are less trustworthy than the average person, but there are good and bad people in life generally, and whether a client or SW is the subject, there's no foolproof way to tell the honest from the dishonest with certainty (except bitter experience).

SW's who ask for references are asking other SW's "please assure me this guy was not a time waster, a ripoff artist, or an abusive psycho when he saw you". That's reasonable to ask.

If references are to work as a system of safety, they have to have not just assurance of trust between the two, but also some kind of "pay it forward" reciprocity - every SW who relies on references is taking a chance that the other one is being honest & responsible, not some sort of unreliable source. Still, even a flawed method of research still provides a filter; better than no reference at all, even if never considered a foolproof guarantee.


BTW: when an SW asks for your social media / PERB user name, etc., the object is also the same: security. They do not want a detailed account of your lusty exploits; they are trying to see if you're some kind of obnoxious asshole, because that's a red flag which correlates with inflicting abuse.
(So, if I ever give my PERB handle to an SW, it is for that reason. The SW can "get to know you" in terms of even more screening. It is NOT for bragging purposes, or acting like some over-demanding Yelp reviewer/influencer.)


All that being said, I hope that references remain as a screening method and do not disappear.

Here's my conundrum:

Two ATF providers that I see repeatedly, love spending time with, and who always have great client reviews (therefore enhanced assurance of trust in them), recently switched to not providing references at all (to anybody). Other reference-friendly SW's, I have not seen in years (thanks to COVID and other things); some might even be retired.
Now I have really only 1 reliable reference left, and she travels overseas frequently and is not very active online. I do not want to rely on only her, and then she will say "why does he see ask me for help with them more than repeating with me?" I certainly would not risk losing her just to take a chance with someone new.

Some I cannot use because they're the sort of lady you contact by text and might not have a web presence at all. And I can't use anyone from a group or agency, because no SW asking for references wants to be talking to someone else's agent/handler.

Do I need to ask out-of-town visiting SW's for a reference? Or those local ladies I might have seen only once? I do not want to break some reference-asking etiquette, and end up not only not getting the reference for the new SW, but annoying the previous one to the point where I can never get a repeat visit. And I would not ask a reference from any SW I did not have a good session with.

Lately, it gets desperate, every time I see an appealing ad and then have to figure out if I can even get through the screening process. The plain fact is, I do not see that many ladies, and only about half of those are ladies I see for the first time. How do I keep the chain of current references going, without taking the crass step of choosing to see ladies based only on whether they provide references in turn? Hmm.

Re the out of town SW’s, I do see touring SP’s fairly often. I’ve asked touring girls for a reference after I’ve seen them and have always had a positive response. As long as the touring girl meets the requirements of the SP I want to see (Website or Twitter for instance) she has always been happy to accept the reference. My rule is don’t go to the well too often however and spread your requests around.

 

[westwoody]

Is it because people need the attention or are they looking to pick a fight?

Also wanting to feel smarter/better, knowing “the real facts”, leading into bigger issues.

 

[80watts]

I have to wonder about SP that don't hand out references. I can see if they are a popular SP, that it takes up too much time handing out references. It also tends to keep the client to themselves. Smart.

 

[rebelwithsomecause]

It just amazes me the amount anger that people have in critiquing other people's choices when it doesn't effect them at all. It doesn't restrict their behaviour or their wallets.

Is it because people need the attention or are they looking to pick a fight?

My first thought was projection. My second thought is jealousy. The things you mentioned also check out. Power feels like a hell of a drug and if you in general are used to getting your way, it can be hard to play by others rules that you don't agree with, even though you entered their space right. Misogyny and women's disempowerment are the norm of the world, and being in situations where those norms are challenged because women set their own rules can make some people truly feel like a victim. It's really sad.

 

[Kissmepassionately]

I had seen 3 ladies at an agency within 10 days, so when asked for a reference by an indy, said sure call this agency.
The agency said that they had no idea who I was, so she refused to see me.
From that point on, if asked for a reference, I just say bye.

 

[GeeBeeP]

I had seen 3 ladies at an agency within 10 days, so when asked for a reference by an indy, said sure call this agency.
The agency said that they had no idea who I was, so she refused to see me.
From that point on, if asked for a reference, I just say bye.

Did you ask the agency ahead of time if they would provide a reference? If you did and they said yes, then you've got every right to be annoyed.

If not, then they're just keeping their end of the unwritten bargain here and you really should be glad. As should the rest of their clients.

Think about what you're asking. If some random person (whether they claimed to be an Indy SP or not) called an agency I'd used and they said "yeah he's a regular, sees a few girls a month" I'd be fucking pissed off!! Discretion is rule number one in this business, and an agency keeping my involvement with them private is essential. If I was a PI or divorce lawyer I'd sure give it a shot to see if my client's cheating husband was screwing escorts. Any respectable agency know this, and they keep their clients in the clear. Not doing so would be pretty deadly for their business.

 

[westwoody]

Think about what you're asking

Yeah pro ladies shouldn’t be giving out all your details to any random caller!

 

[bigballs55]

I think the person with the highest risk in this hobby is the SW. Therefore she should use the best screening process that she can possibly think of to ensure her safety. Then the ball is in our court as users of their services to decide if we want to jump through the hoops to spend time with them.
I support SW's in using whatever screening process they choose.