Question for anyone trying to retire from the hobby...

[sandm]

If you had 20 minutes with someone who could help you quit pooning, what would you ask them?

If you're thinking: Who the hell is asking? I'm not a psychologist or a researcher - I just had an idea to create an online course for guys who want to quit. I get the feeling there are guys out there who really want to quit but they could use some help. I'm making a pilot course to test things out, and I'm asking this question because I want to figure out what to focus the pilot on so that it addresses the biggest challenges. And while I'm being honest I might as well admit that I'm not coming from a place of personal experience :fear: I just know a lot about behaviour change.

 

[sdw]

If you had 20 minutes with someone who could help you quit pooning, what would you ask them?

If you're thinking: Who the hell is asking? I'm not a psychologist or a researcher - I just had an idea to create an online course for guys who want to quit. I get the feeling there are guys out there who really want to quit but they could use some help. I'm making a pilot course to test things out, and I'm asking this question because I want to figure out what to focus the pilot on so that it addresses the biggest challenges. And while I'm being honest I might as well admit that I'm not coming from a place of personal experience :fear: I just know a lot about behaviour change.

I'll stop pooning when no woman will accept my money. Until then, I'm paying a small amount for a fantasy instead of paying through the nose for the same fantasy.

There may be men out there who have unreasonable expectations and finally quit pooning because nobody will meet those expectations. But, most men know that they are paying a woman that wouldn't allow them to buy her a drink in a Pub to have sex with him. Those that can't accept that - well, that's sad.

 

[westwoody]

I'm not a psychologist or a researcher - I just had an idea to create an online course for guys who want to quit.....I might as well admit that I'm not coming from a place of personal experience

So you admit you don't have any experience, but you want to create an online course.

You know little or nothing about guy's motivations, you are not a psychologist or researcher, you don't know the business...but you are going to write an online course abut it.

You are in no position to be giving out advice.

 

[sandm]

I'll stop pooning when no woman will accept my money. Until then, I'm paying a small amount for a fantasy instead of paying through the nose for the same fantasy.

There may be men out there who have unreasonable expectations and finally quit pooning because nobody will meet those expectations. But, most men know that they are paying a woman that wouldn't allow them to buy her a drink in a Pub to have sex with him. Those that can't accept that - well, that's sad.

Thanks sdw. So it sounds like you're seeing all interactions with ladies as a fantasy that you have to pay for, and therefore what's the point trying to quit pooning when it's the cheaper of the two options. But in a perfect world, if you had a relationship that was fully mutual, would you take the mutual, non-fantasy sex?

- Dr. sandm

 

[sandm]

Hope you don't mind me responding. I'll quit SW when a) I meet someone that I'm in a serious relationship with, and B) when I'm working a square job making enough money to pay the bills.

I'm glad you responded. Thank you. I really wish you all the best in both A and B (and until then).

 

[sandm]

So you admit you don't have any experience, but you want to create an online course.

You know little or nothing about guy's motivations, you are not a psychologist or researcher, you don't know the business...but you are going to write an online course abut it.

You are in no position to be giving out advice.

Yeah pretty much

But I didn't say I had no experience of any kind or that I have nothing to offer.

You're right that I'm in no position to give out advice. And I don't intend to. I plan to offer practical tools based on research-supported behavioural change strategies (you don't have to be a researcher at a university to have a solid understanding of the research in a certain field).

I tried asking an open-ended question with not very much info on what I plan to do because I don't want to impose my assumptions.

 

[sdw]

Thanks sdw. So it sounds like you're seeing all interactions with ladies as a fantasy that you have to pay for, and therefore what's the point trying to quit pooning when it's the cheaper of the two options. But in a perfect world, if you had a relationship that was fully mutual, would you take the mutual, non-fantasy sex?

- Dr. sandm

I build pipelines - all over the world. Often in places that no sane woman wants to follow me to. I learned that it doesn't matter how much people "love" if you are never home and fidelity is a fantasy.

 

[badbadboy]

If you had 20 minutes with someone who could help you quit pooning, what would you ask them?

If you're thinking: Who the hell is asking? I'm not a psychologist or a researcher - I just had an idea to create an online course for guys who want to quit. I get the feeling there are guys out there who really want to quit but they could use some help. I'm making a pilot course to test things out, and I'm asking this question because I want to figure out what to focus the pilot on so that it addresses the biggest challenges. And while I'm being honest I might as well admit that I'm not coming from a place of personal experience :fear: I just know a lot about behaviour change.

I wouldn't want to quit cold turkey per se but do need to develop a lot more restraint from pooning too much.

My own insight is I love the company of very attractive younger women who 99% of the time make me feel like on top of the world but when I am back in my home office (an hour afterwards), I am researching "the next date".

:doh:

Great thread topic by the way :thumb:

 

[clu]

Thanks sdw. So it sounds like you're seeing all interactions with ladies as a fantasy that you have to pay for, and therefore what's the point trying to quit pooning when it's the cheaper of the two options. But in a perfect world, if you had a relationship that was fully mutual, would you take the mutual, non-fantasy sex?

- Dr. sandm

While I can see merit to assisting those who aren't happy in this lifestyle, this statement above seems to imply a preconception that this lifestyle is inherently less satisfying. Is that your position?

 

[Jessikitten]

Is it an issue for some? Like an addiction?

 

[sandm]

I wouldn't want to quit cold turkey per se but do need to develop a lot more restraint from pooning too much.

My own insight is I love the company of very attractive younger women who 99% of the time make me feel like on top of the world but when I am back in my home office (an hour afterwards), I am researching "the next date".

:doh:

Great thread topic by the way :thumb:

Thanks! And I appreciate the insight

 

[sandm]

A retirement thread! Hope no one minds me responding either.. Its something I've given a lot of thought to this year.

Would I fully retire & walk away from this industry? Nope.

If I ever got into a serious relationship and the guy I was with could no longer handle my job the way it is now we could negotiate. I could quit full service. I could quit bjs.I did a 3 month trial this past summer & it worked for me. I returned cause I need to get laid once in awhile lol plus the extra $$$ I'm making now is helping pay for BDSM equipment & my financial responsibilities have also recently increased. But I draw the line when it comes to Traditional Domme work. That is non-negotiatable. I wouldn't give it up..no way!! If the guy couldn't handle it I would take it as a sign we likely shouldn't be together anyways.

I've changed my life for a few guys over the past 10 years..in the end it got me nowhere. Next time I want to be accepted just the way I am

I definitely don't mind - I'm the one who's intruding here

I like your thoughts.

 

[sandm]

While I can see merit to assisting those who aren't happy in this lifestyle, this statement above seems to imply a preconception that this lifestyle is inherently less satisfying. Is that your position?

I'm pleased that you think the idea - generally speaking - has some merit.

I was intending only to get some clarification on what sdw said; I wasn't sure if he was implying a dissatisfaction with the lifestyle or if I was reading into it, so that was the intent of the question.

But you're right, I definitely have preconceptions here. If I launch this pilot, I would have to be really careful to make it my goal to provide people with tools to make the changes they want to make and for their own reasons, not mine (and I know that everyone's reasons will be different).

 

[sandm]

Is it an issue for some? Like an addiction?

It does seem to be an issue for some. Some people would call it an addiction, but I think that just comes down to how you define addiction.

At any rate, there are plenty of people out there who make the decision to stop (for whatever reason) but they come back, then try again, and come back, etc. There are guys who feel like it's gotten out of control for them or they can't stop thinking about it.

 

[sdw]

I'm pleased that you think the idea - generally speaking - has some merit.

I was intending only to get some clarification on what sdw said; I wasn't sure if he was implying a dissatisfaction with the lifestyle or if I was reading into it, so that was the intent of the question.

But you're right, I definitely have preconceptions here. If I launch this pilot, I would have to be really careful to make it my goal to provide people with tools to make the changes they want to make and for their own reasons, not mine (and I know that everyone's reasons will be different).

What many fail to realize is that there are careers that don't lend themselves to long lasting marriage. Take Police Officers, http://www.police-officer-pages.com/policedivorcerate.html#axzz3pS1W5MZB

Typically, the Police divorce rate is high. On average, the large departments are about 70-80 %.

It's not surprising when you consider the sacrifices that have to be made by the men and women who choose this career.

Take the long hours and strange schedule, shiftwork, attending court on days off, and its easy to see that officers just won't be around all that much.

It's not surprising that a couple would drift apart.

The same is true for most high stress jobs where people have to work shifts and are always "On" if there is a major event.

Despite how attracted the partner in a "normal" job may be to you - there is only so much absence that is going to be tolerated.

After your first or second divorce because you are never around, you realize that losing half of everything if you are lucky enough to not have created children and a great deal more if you did create children - is going to mean that you will be very poor when you get too old to work.

So, a "meaningful relationship" is a very expensive fantasy.

The value judgement you make that marriage is good and seeing a SP is bad is in error.

 

[clu]

The value judgement you make that marriage is good and seeing a SP is bad is in error.

I noticed the same implication as you did but if sandm is careful to refrain from making such judgments in the materials I don't see the harm in providing tools to assist those who wish to exit the lifestyle. My only concern would be the possibility of lack of training in such area. Sandm (don't know if I should say "he" or "she" so I'll have to refrain from pronouns) denies being a psychologist or researcher but has experience in behaviour changes... I confess the first thing that popped to mind was the religiously-driven videos on gay-to-straight conversion "therapy" which are regarded by professionals to be dangerous to the psyche of those subjected to them. But if sandm is willing to approach it merely as tools to help, without judgment so that it does not attempt to provoke an exit by shaming those in the lifestyle, I could see that being helpful. It's like the difference between saying "here's a way to manage your caloric intake" vs. "don't be a pig".

 

[sandm]

sdw - True, I think I went about trying to get more clarification in the wrong way. But thank you for elaborating despite my lack of grace.

clu - Thank you for your constructive thoughts. I'm totally in agreement about the harms of pseudo-scientific therapies. I can see that I don't have every skill necessary to take on this project alone. My skills are mostly in the finance and organization side of things, although I do have experience in the field of addictions support. But I've been consulting with experts in the various fields touched on and I plan to defer as much as possible to the expertise of others when my expertise is lacking. I would do well to take your suggestion of keeping the materials free of judgement and just allow them to be used as each person chooses based on their own particular goals.

 

[paprides]

Interesting.
On one hand I query the premise that a 'hobbyist's,' site is the appropriate place to find individuals who want to quit.

Do we find MADD or AA proponents in bars and liquor stores?

On the other hand, where else would one find 'hobbyists,' (what else do you call individuals whom are drawn into this?) but a place that is presumably frequented with nothing but?

One thing I am struck with, is this groups adherence and respect for quality. Perhaps anyone engaging in reforming, educating or communicating with a segment of this population would best be equipped with training, education and experience. Or at least a healthy dose of two of these, if not all three.

Interesting conversation though….

 

[sandm]

Well thank you very much for everyone's honesty!

What I'm hearing is that there could be some interest in a high-quality online course that offers practical tools, free of judgmental and shaming language, for anyone who is seeking help in their decision to quit.

There is understandably some hesitation about my education and experience (or perceived lack thereof). You only know the sum of a few words about me. Thankfully, providing a pilot course will allow anyone with an interest to evaluate my work directly and provide feedback on where the initiative could use small improvements, or whether it's just altogether an irredeemable piece of shit.

Until then.

 

[hornygandalf]

I think you need to get a better understanding of your target audience, as there are a variety of motivations for indulging in this pursuit. For some, it is because of something that is missing in their SO relationship or the lack of a SO relationship, and so a course is better directed at those motivations. If those issues are resolved, then they may not have any need to continue in this pursuit, and are able to quit without any online course. As someone who only occasionally plays, I probably fall into this category.

However, there are others who frequently play and want to cut down or stop for any one of a variety of reasons and find it difficult to do so. A course may help, but they are more likely to also need the support of a professional to guide and support them (with some addiction-healing background). I'm not sure that an online-course would be sufficient. Maybe you should start with an e-book on Amazon first and see what the take-up is from that.