Question about Job References

[cruiser]

I have a question about job references and best thought to put it the PERBers as they all come from various types of employment levels.

I am having a job interview for an industry that I haven't worked in for over 4 years. My current work doesn't relate to this industry and so am having a challenge about who to ask for my references. I will elaborate:

I was trained and worked in industry "x" for a period of 3 years (2002 to 2005) but didn't find my "niche", so left it. I have been working in industry "y" since 2005 to present but now have a job interview setup to try and get back into industry "x" but in a different area. (Industry "x" and industry "y" are totally different from each other and have nothing to do with each other as far job skills, etc. There are a couple of similarities (eg.,g both are customer service orientated), but they don't have a lot of other similarities beyond that.)

I know that my interviewers will ask me for references but am not sure who the best ones are to give. Do I go and call my old references from 2002-2005 and say "remember me" and ask them if they don't mind me giving out their name? Do I use 1-2 people from my current line of work (who don't know anything about me looking to leave my job and who don't know anything about the industry I'm getting back into), and ask them for a "character" reference? I was even thinking about asking 1 or 2 of my college instructors that trained me for "industry x" but I haven't talked to them since April 2003.

How important is it to have people from the actual "industry" that you are going back into (in my case), when I've been out it for over 4 years, but now want to give it another try? (I know it's "optimum" to have people in the industry because when it's a close knit community, things can flow really easy and people will naturally chat you up). Are the odds against me?

What's the best way to approach this?

Appreciate any and all feedback from the PERB community.

thanks,
Cruiser

 

[FloridaGuy]

You're in a tough spot, but a lot of it depends on the industry you are talking about and how technical it is, and who your competition is. If it is a highly technical industry, you need to be able to show your skill sets remain current. Then, references from your current industry can be used to show your personal attributes, which can very often be more important than your skillsets (assuming you have a solid skill base in industry X).

I interview and hire managerial-level staff from time to time, and sit on boards that hire others. Frankly, as you might guess, the best candidate is one who is currently working in the industry AND who has rock solid personal references, ideally from their current supervisors (although we understand that some people don't want their current boss to know they are shopping around, and we are therefore amenable to other refs from within the business world).

But, if your personal/character references are rock solid and credible, and if the skillsets are re-learnable or don't fade with time, then you'll be competitive. I would recommend that yes, absolutely you should get refs from 4-5 years ago. That gives the interviewer a clear indication that you were previously successful in industry X and left of your own accord. But, you have to back those up with current references, ideally from your current boss and his boss. Failing that, from other management. They will speak to your reliability, character, current work ethic etc. Both sides of the game are important to an employer. Your file will be weakened if your references are peers or friends. Try and get a supervisor or manager, even if its not your own.

I would not put your college instructors as references. That's fine for entry jobs immediately after graduation, but makes you look childish 5 years later. You don't want the interviewers to associate you with college. It could also impact your pay, as they might (maybe even subconsciously) consider you an entry-level employee if you are still closely associated with college instructors.

So to summarize, both types of references are needed. From industry X to demonstrate your past successes in that industry. And from industry Y to demonstrate your current capabilities and potential.

Good luck.

 

[cruiser]

Solid references are critical so be mindful who you write down. Managers or Supers from other industries are fine. DO NOT write down personal friends-ever.
If you are actively looking these people should be in place already. So their permission should have been asked for by this point. You are doing this a little backwards. This makes you look unorganized and unprofessional doing it this way to be honest. Get your I's dotted and your T's crossed before going into an interview. You will experience a more favorable result.

It turns out that this job posting just came to me by chance...the perverbial "it happened when I wasn't looking"...so for the hell of it, I applied...they first did a 5 minute phone review (that was 2 weeks ago)....I missed a couple of questions in the phone interview so wrote it off that I wouldn't hear back from them...then they called me yesterday, we connected today and they want me to come in for an interview.

I didn't intentionally do it backwards (I'm usually quite organized)...but I do see your point!

thanks

 

[bcneil]

I get called for references quite often.
My employer always hires SFU coop students.
Each year I get called up 10 or more times.

What people ask me when they call up usually has little to do with technical/work skills.
Its always about personality......"Is he positive?"....."Does he work well with other?"......"Does he go out of his way to help others, or improve the workplace?".....
"Is he a shit disturber?"........"Does he act appropriately with the public/customers/clients."

 

[Im Cuming]

I all depends on who checking your references. The question i always seem to ask when checking on someone>>>>>>

Would you rehire this individual?

That eliminates any>>> Privacy issues that they potentially cannot answer.

Florida Guy >> Made some good points. On the other hand >< How desperate is the company and how much demand are you in.


Good Luck and all the best.

 

[sdw]

That makes it sound like you are being recruited vs applying for a job. A resume with your work experience and naming your superior(s) will cover it. I would expand on successful interaction with customers/the public, ability to meet goals/time limits, understanding of the industry with prior experience, etc.

It turns out that this job posting just came to me by chance...the perverbial "it happened when I wasn't looking"...so for the hell of it, I applied...they first did a 5 minute phone review (that was 2 weeks ago)....I missed a couple of questions in the phone interview so wrote it off that I wouldn't hear back from them...then they called me yesterday, we connected today and they want me to come in for an interview.

I didn't intentionally do it backwards (I'm usually quite organized)...but I do see your point!

thanks

 

[rampart]

Now what if you are self-employed and then decide to shift to working for someone else. Customers, accountants, lawyers would they be qualified as references?

I have run numerous businesses for myself and others and find that I prefer to see work related references but never discount non-work related references especially if they are professional people.

 

[cruiser]

I've heard that in Alberta, due to privacy laws and all that legal crap, that employers are not allowed to provide work references for employees but they are allowed to provide character references. What that mean is that your former employer cannot say you were good/bad/competent/incompetent, etc., while that same employer is allowed to say you're a "good guy".

WTF?

I've also heard that some employers will only provide previous employment confirmation and dates worked (e.g. "Yes, Joe Smith worked for my company from March 2004 to July 2009. Thank you. Have a nice day. Goodbye.")

Again, WTF??

Yes, I've heard exactly the same thing as well.....(BTW, I live in Alberta, if it makes any difference)....I heard that another employee even asked my manager about using her as a reference, and she told me that all she could say was exactly what Spermy said above...otherwise they can be sued!

Thanks for the feedback.

 

[InTheBum]

References are pretty useless...

If you don't have the job by the end of the interview and rely on references...they probably don't think very highly of you...

I've worked a number of organizations the last 20+ years... and the majority of places these days don't say much when it comes to a letter of reference...ie...John X worked here for 2.5 years as an Accounts Payable Manager, from Jan 2004 to July 2006.

To me this says nothing...now...unless you have a current contact at that old job, I wouldn't even bother.

Another note...there are so many Unstable shitty corporations to work for and so many people on contract (quitting, laid-off, or transferring out)....usually, reference checks will only go back a few years tops...


Best advice...start your own business or get a federal job.

 

[island-guy]

I've had it happen several times that I was ready to hire a person and then I called their reference and changed my mind.

these days a lot of companies and bosses are getting sued over bad references, so basically if they aren't ready to give a good reference, that means that it is a bad reference.

I actually had one person's previous boss tell me that all they could say was "I have nothing good to tell you"

One thing to really watch out for is the person who puts people OTHER than their previous boss as a reference with no explanation. Co-workers are useless references unless the old boss is dead or otherwise unavailable to talk to.

 

[InTheBum]

I've had it happen several times that I was ready to hire a person and then I called their reference and changed my mind.

these days a lot of companies and bosses are getting sued over bad references, so basically if they aren't ready to give a good reference, that means that it is a bad reference.

I actually had one person's previous boss tell me that all they could say was "I have nothing good to tell you"

One thing to really watch out for is the person who puts people OTHER than their previous boss as a reference with no explanation. Co-workers are useless references unless the old boss is dead or otherwise unavailable to talk to.

How do you know that the old boss wasn't a complete asshole? Lying? Used the employee? Was Cheap?

YOu don't...you are simply taking one person's view over another.

Best to ask the prospective employee why they left their job and go from there...

 

[cruiser]

If you don't have the job by the end of the interview and rely on references...they probably don't think very highly of you...

I've worked a number of organizations the last 20+ years... and the majority of places these days don't say much when it comes to a letter of reference...ie...John X worked here for 2.5 years as an Accounts Payable Manager, from Jan 2004 to July 2006.

To me this says nothing...now...unless you have a current contact at that old job, I wouldn't even bother.

Another note...there are so many Unstable shitty corporations to work for and so many people on contract (quitting, laid-off, or transferring out)....usually, reference checks will only go back a few years tops...


Best advice...start your own business or get a federal job.

About reference checks....you raise a few good points...and if they only go back a few years, then how can they find out about a persons past when they worked in a different industry (they can't, unless they rely on gossip from that industry).

But to be realistic, there is a lot of change in todays marketplace, and a person would be lucky to have someone from 5 years ago if they are working in a different industry now then they were then.