Question about building muscle...

[chilli]

For example for chest press I do 5 sets

Warm up set
10-12 reps x 4 sets
Finishing set

For my finishing set is it better high reps to failure?

ie: 15 reps of lighter weight until muscles are exhausted.

or For my finishing set is it better low reps to failure?

ie: 6 reps of heavy weight until I can't do a complete lift anymore.

The reason I am asking a seemingly dumb question is that I work out alone, so on heavy lifts if I can't complete a rep often I will only do 5 reps, where if I had some spotting I could probably do 6.

In a way I don't feel that I am pushing my muscle to exhaustion...

But if I do a lighter load higher rep count as my finisher I can actually feel more of a "burn" and the muscle definately feels more fatigued.

Thoughts?

 

[Guardian Angel]

My tainer did this

Chili,
Like you I lift on my own, having said that my trainer did my sets like this:

Decline Bench

1 sets 15 reps - 2 - 45 lb plates
1 set 12 reps same weight
2 sets 8 reps 5 lbs added on (your discretion) same weight both sets
1 set 10 reps add 5 lbs - to failure
Note - 1 minute rest between sets and only two minutes rest between each muscle group

I have the same pattern no matter what body part I am working on, maybe just a different amount of sets.

It seems to be working and I do get safely to failure, and when I hit failure I will hold for a as long as possible then slowly finish move. I may even try one more after that and if for some reason I get the lift completed, then I do another one, until I get all reps done or just cannot do any more.

Tends to make you push your muscles harder when they are most tired with the theory you are maxxing out that way. Plus it does give your muscles a warming up phase in prep for the heavier lifts later in the set.

Of course you add weights as you progressively get stronger.

I think others may suggest this method is to build muscle bigger, bulkier, while more reps would be to keep muscles leaner & perhaps longer.


G.A.

 

[goingolfing]

If you pick up a copy of last month's Men's Health, they actually have an article talking about the merits of working out alone (i.e. no spotter). I don't have it with me, but I can post some of their recommendations when I get to it (unless you post that you have it and don't need them).

 

[Krustee]

For my finishing set is it better high reps to failure?

ie: 15 reps of lighter weight until muscles are exhausted.

or For my finishing set is it better low reps to failure?

ie: 6 reps of heavy weight until I can't do a complete lift anymore.


But if I do a lighter load higher rep count as my finisher I can actually feel more of a "burn" and the muscle definately feels more fatigued.

Thoughts?

Actually chilli, you are spot on here.

That is one of the methods I use when I don't have a spotter to assist in my bench or other similar lifts.

I used to refer to it as "flushing" the muscle.

The goal is to COMPLETELY exhaust the muscle.

Danger!! - training to absolute failure without a spotter is dangerous & can cause injury.

However, if your looking to shock that muscle into growth this is a good method

 

[LonelyGhost]

GACK!!!!

if a spotter is helping then you are NOT lifting the whole weight!!!

If you are doing low reps, high weights then go to failure as best
you can on your own.

If you do high reps to failure you are not building strength but
endurance ... doesn't help the next time you try to lift a heavy
weight.

If you have dumbells then use them for the last set ... if you
don't have enough weight then superset ... do 3-4 sets with
increasing weights for your regular bench presses, then go
with the heaviest dumbell press then finish with heavy flyes ...

in each cash you will go from limited range of motion, to more
range to maximum range which will work deeper into the muscle
with each one ...

but try to stay as heavy as you can with the dumbells and minimize
rest as the weight decline ...

So do heavy, heavier, heaviest for 3 x 5 bench
then the same 3 x 5 for dumbells presses
then 3 x 5-8 for flyes.

your chest will really feel it!

 

[Krustee]

GACK!!!!

if a spotter is helping then you are NOT lifting the whole weight!!!

Yeah, that's pretty much the idea.

The spotter is not there to lift the weights for you, he is there to assist in the case you cannot finish a repetition.
(and also to motivate you)

It's called safety.

If you are doing low reps, high weights then go to failure as best
you can on your own.

If you do high reps to failure you are not building strength but
endurance ... doesn't help the next time you try to lift a heavy
weight.

If you have dumbells then use them for the last set ... if you
don't have enough weight then superset ... do 3-4 sets with
increasing weights for your regular bench presses, then go
with the heaviest dumbell press then finish with heavy flyes ...

Supersetting is one of many variations to keep your workouts interesting & productive.

By no means is there a perfect workout there are those that get you from one stage to the next but your muscle needs variations in weight & style of exercise for continued gains.

You must stay ahead of the adaptive response of muscle fibers.

in each cash you will go from limited range of motion, to more
range to maximum range which will work deeper into the muscle
with each one ...

but try to stay as heavy as you can with the dumbells and minimize
rest as the weight decline ...

Got to take up an arguement with this one.
I've had this same debate numerous times & each time the pro limited motion guy had no scientific study nor professional basis for the benefits of limited motion.

Here's why;
if you study kinesiology you will learn the merit of training muscles in their proper alignment & full range of motion.
The adaptive response of a muscle is best triggered when using this methodology.

The other negative is the fact that limiting the muscle in range of motion for too long & not having an adequate stretching routine will result in diminished elastometrics of the fascia or brachii.
We've all seen the types that practice this in the gym, I call them Mongo goofs cause they always walk around with their arms bent at 45 degrees.
Continued training that results in this dramtically increases the potenial for serious muscle or tendon tears.

Give this book a read, it is one of the ones I studied in school & keep on my reference shelf.

Physiological Assessment Of Human Fitness
By Peter J. Maud, Carl Foster, 1995

So do heavy, heavier, heaviest for 3 x 5 bench
then the same 3 x 5 for dumbells presses
then 3 x 5-8 for flyes.

your chest will really feel it!

This seems a bit much for a single exercise in succession, you sure this is'nt three seperate exercises?

 

[LonelyGhost]

Got to take up an arguement with this one.
I've had this same debate numerous times & each time the pro limited motion guy had no scientific study nor professional basis for the benefits of limited motion.

you didn't read what I wrote: I said he was going from a limited range
of motion exercise (bench press) to one with greater range of motion
(db presses) to max range (flyes) which IMPROVES muscle gains ...

This seems a bit much for a single exercise in succession, you sure this is'nt three seperate exercises?

yes, full heavy on bench for 3-4 sets ... rack on failure in 5th set.
rest: then start db presses to 'failure'
rest: then flyes to 'failure'

OR

on last set with bench to 'failure' then pick up db's and go to failure ...

finish with a set or two of flyes ...

either way, it just keeps working the pecs better than doing lighter
reps on the bench press.

 

[Krustee]

you didn't read what I wrote: I said he was going from a limited range
of motion exercise (bench press) to one with greater range of motion
(db presses) to max range (flyes) which IMPROVES muscle gains ...

Oh, ...

*(re-reads in context)*

never mind!

yes, full heavy on bench for 3-4 sets ... rack on failure in 5th set.
rest: then start db presses to 'failure'
rest: then flyes to 'failure'

OR

on last set with bench to 'failure' then pick up db's and go to failure ...

finish with a set or two of flyes ...

either way, it just keeps working the pecs better than doing lighter
reps on the bench press.

Actually I have used the same type of execises to "burn" my muscle too, I just don't use as many sets as your describing here.

ie. after faliure on bench pick up dumbells to finish off the chest. (again to failure)

I don't incorporate flyes at the end just because I never felt the need & unless the weight on the dumbells was light enough trying to complete the movement with exhausted muscle would induce poor form & I am very strict about performing the exercise movement in proper form.

I have always used flyes as a seperate & singular exercise as it is excellent for working the outer chest & strengthening the connective tissue.
ie. flyes can be used to the side of the body or over the head while lying on bench (pull overs)
But one must be extremely carefull in the movement not to overstretch or move outside the normal range of motion with flyes.

 

[Wet My Noodle]

How many sets can you do????

Remember: till FAILURE


no cheating>>>. no viagra... STERIODS ARE "OK"

 

[kalel]

at the risk of offending anybody, we've had an increase in the number of fitness related questions here. and as much as i enjoy helping people i usually choose to help those who are willing to learn.

lately i've noticed that most people are just throwing a question out there without having read previous threads, or trying to find the answers in the magazines, internet, or qualified (and i mean qualified) personel at their gym.

me, krustee, guardian angel, sexyboy, etc giving you a short answer isn't enough for anybody to go out and build a spartan physique like the guys in "300".

i encourage everybody to do their homework first and learn what, how, and why of working out. there's alot of good resources out there. if you don't know where to start, type in "steve holman" in google and read what he's written. obviously he's an author who sells his books but he's got alot of good techniques and routines that work well, and by well i mean for natural athletes because of the enhanced focus on recovery.

and i post this because a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing. taking a bit of advice here, a bit of advice there and trying to put it together without knowing why may not lead you to what you want.

 

[Guardian Angel]

Good advice

me, krustee, guardian angel, sexyboy, etc giving you a short answer isn't enough for anybody to go out and build a spartan physique like the guys in "300".

QUOTE]

I answer based on my own personal experience, however this was gained by hiring personal trainers both for diet and weight training. I recommend spending the money to get the professionals to assist you rather than spend time and maybe money on advise that may not get you where you want to go.


G.A.

 

[Krustee]

lately i've noticed that most people are just throwing a question out there without having read previous threads, or trying to find the answers in the magazines, internet, or qualified (and i mean qualified) personel at their gym.


and i post this because a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing. taking a bit of advice here, a bit of advice there and trying to put it together without knowing why may not lead you to what you want.

The above previous post by kalel is correct.
Those truly seeking help with their trainig above the casual knowledge seeking would do better contacting a personal trainer.

I have no problem providing answers to questions but that, "does not a proper workout make".

If you are looking to start a new program there is no substitute for having a trainer/coach there to assist & guide you through the many nuances involved in proper & safe training.

Technique used while performing the excercise is critical to the results & safety of your workout.
Those techniques are best taught by knowledgeable & experienced trainers.

When it comes to bodybuilding you will train differently than for powerlifting or explosive strength training as needed for football.

Some training techniques are considered trade secrets to those in the bodybuilding arena but if you get a trainer who is not a steroid junky and has a solid understanding of kinesiology & biomechanics you will most likely learn some very effective techniques.

Finding an educated & knowledgeable trainer is the most important & difficult thing unless you luck out up front.

Good luck all.

 

[SlickNick22]

New To Edmonton And ...

"I answer based on my own personal experience, however this was gained by hiring personal trainers both for diet and weight training. I recommend spending the money to get the professionals to assist you rather than spend time and maybe money on advise that may not get you where you want to go."

FOR Guardian Angel

I am new to the city and based on your post you sound like you know what you are doing. Could you recommend a good club in Edmonton with good personal trainers?

Thanks, Nick

 

[Jodie]

The other negative is the fact that limiting the muscle in range of motion for too long & not having an adequate stretching routine will result in diminished elastometrics of the fascia or brachii.
We've all seen the types that practice this in the gym, I call them Mongo goofs cause they always walk around with their arms bent at 45 degrees.

I've always referred to it as IBS (Imaginary Biceps Syndrome), a common condition amongst juice monkeys, who are deluded into believing their biceps are so huge that they cannot possibly hang their arms straight.

 

[SexyBoy]

The other negative is the fact that limiting the muscle in range of motion for too long & not having an adequate stretching routine will result in diminished elastometrics of the fascia or brachii.
We've all seen the types that practice this in the gym, I call them Mongo goofs cause they always walk around with their arms bent at 45 degrees.

Working your triceps more helps too!

So many guys just neglect certain body parts that might need more focus. We all have weak points.

 

[Krustee]

Working your triceps more helps too!

So many guys just neglect certain body parts that might need more focus. We all have weak points.

Actually the triceps are just the antagonist of the biceps & do not play part in overcoming the limited motion of the bicep other than the stretching effect on the bicep brachii during the full flexion (or contraction) of the tricep.

This causes the bicep to extend & stretch at the last 10% flexion of the joint.

The following link gives a good textbook description of these principles.
http://books.google.com/books?id=Pr...bcw&sig=n3gavvVlO-W063_iNZG44FwZTCw#PPA259,M1

This is a good synopsis too:
http://www.isokinetics.net/basics/bio.htm


I would suggest that anyone interested in this more than on a casual basis should take a course on fitness, & weight training.

The courses required to become a Personal Trainer, such as I was required to pass, are pretty exhaustive & will take close to a year to complete.
See here:
BCRPA - Personal Trainer