Psychology of a Pooner : Part 1 - Real vs Fake Photos

[pervypervison]

There's a lot of stuff on this forum that trigger thoughts I want to expand on, but never do because of how easily I get sidetracked. This forum is very interesting because the variety of personalities and experiences is so mixed and sometimes so polarizing. The main common thread we have is enjoyment of sex. That leaves a lot of other variables that will cause us to not see eye-to-eye. Given that, I'm not trying to convince anyone to adopt my thinking, nor is the intent to determine who has the 'right' or 'wrong' perspective. I just thought it'd be interesting to hear how others process things when it come to photo authenticity of providers.

The Value of Real Photos

• When I first experienced this hobby, I had an immense fear of encountering a 50yr old asian auntie at an independent incall. I very quickly learned that if anyone looked too good to be true on Leolist, it was likely not worth my time. There were a few diamonds in the rough, but the risk seemed to far outweigh the reward. Non-asian shops or providers seemed to be a bit better with offering attractive, but believable photos. There were still instances where I got burned, but I knew it was unavoidable. I remember one time an indie SP turned out to be a lot bigger/thicker than in her photos. She was still attractive, but I was expecting something else and couldn't get into it for the whole session. I'd still get pretty nervous back then, so I kept complimenting her hair....to the point where she called me out about it in the middle of sex and exclaimed "there's other attractive things about me too you know!". I felt so dumb and embarrassed at the moment. It was a total 'Ross moment' (from FRIENDS when he's on the couch with Rebecca Romijn).
• Fast forward a decade and the popularity of social media and dating apps has essentially eroded the value of "real" photos for me. My rookie mistake when i first went on Tinder was meeting up with girls that only had headshot photos. They looked attractive to me, but in person their body type wasn't what I would seek out typically. But even with more candid photos they would post from a party or special event, the girl would often look very different in person. I get it though, we all want to put our best foot forward....so both men and women can be found guilty of misleading people on dating apps. Social media apps and filters have further affected our sense of reality when viewing things online. As a guy, I feel like I've now been conditioned to find people attractive online even though it's very artificial.
• I've found that majority of the time when I view real photos of SPs online, I'll pick out something that'll cause me to be disinterested and not want to book them. I applaud all of the providers or shops that use real photos only and try to minimize the amount of editing (outside of removing distinctive tattoos, etc). At the same time, it's unlikely I'll book with any of you because my view and perception of what's attractive is so warped.

The Case for Fake Photos

• The usual rationale for Asian shops using fake photos is that the SP does not want to use any real photos. This applies mostly with Korean SPs and having spoken to a number of them about this, I can affirm that they are generally very against using any real photos. There was one of my regulars that had an amazing body and the fake photos used for her looked way worse. I told her she should just post some close-up shots of her ass in a thong or cleavage hanging out of her bra. Even to that she said "never". So i get how this leaves the shops with no choice but to come up with alternative options...even if it's as ridiculous as using AI generated photos (which i must admit are getting so realistic it's scary).
• I don't really book with Chinese girls, but I know that Vietnamese, Thai, and Japanese girls are all more open to using photos with either the face blurred out or heavily edited. I don't have issue with this, but I still won't rely on these photos for an accurate depiction of their face because 90% of the time it's still quite different when compare to in person.
• For people new to this hobby, understanding what photos you can or can't rely on is just a part of the learning process. For most of us that continually choose to use Asian shops, we know exactly what we're getting ourselves into. I know if I don't like what I see at the door, I can walk. I also know the girl greeting me at the door will not be the girl in the photos, but the excitement of what she'll actually look like and whether we'll hit it off is part of the attraction and addiction. I don't know if this is a relatable comparison, but telling a regular customer of Xiao DimSum that he's getting tricked and having his money stolen is no different than telling a regular lottery purchaser that BCLC is stealing their money....in both cases, we are spending that money with no regrets. I see all the heated discussions about misleading/fake photos and both sides getting into it, but it really just just comes down to people seeking out or valuing different things. Another comparison would be like someone that loves fast food being told that McDonald's is stealing their money and ruining their health. Those warnings are falling on deaf ears because that person is more often than not making an informed decision. So really, who am I to rain on their Big Mac parade if they've made a choice they're happy with.

Other Random Thoughts

• Over the years, I've developed some great friendships with SPs. Along with that I've been tasked with helping them take photos for their Leolist ads, and also reviewing their professional photos that they had hired photographers to take. In both instances, i've learned firsthand how delicate of a balance it is to present something that's realistic, but enticing. Tipping things too far either way could turn off a lot of potential customers, so I don't even the SPs or shops that have to manage this delicate balance.
• Guys generally aren't thinking straight when sex is involved. When a girl is half naked greeting you at the door, you sometimes magically disregard how she compares to online photos whether their real or fake.
• Social media and IG filters aside....the advancements & trends in the beauty & makeup industry make it a lopsided battle for guys more and more. With the right amount of effort & expertise, a girl will always have the upper hand in attracting a man. supporting evidence.....
• 

 

[VanCityNewb]

I think my problem with shops like XDS isn't strictly related to the use of fake photos. Although, working as an artist I do find them to regularly use the most laughable photos of just about anyone. Photos that clearly aren't even taken in North America to begin with, which have been blatantly lifted off of some Instagram account. Photos with faces pasted on that are far too small for the bodies, faces at a completely different angle than the body, limbs far too long for their bodies, bodies made of taffy that have no discernable skeleton to them. Professional photos with zombie lighting and no shadows. All show that they're not even remotely real photos. It's insulting to even try and pass those off as "100% real!"

On top of that, they're trafficking girls across international borders for sex work. And then you get there to bang a girl you can't even communicate with, and the whole thing just gives me the icky creeps about everyone involved in the whole entire operation. And then guys get shocked and amazed that these poor girls are working through being sick and disaffected with being a sex object for men who don't even care to so much as say hi to them. And last time, someone just blamed this on "Asian culture", even though this never really comes up about entirely Chinese operations like SL and others. It's always. The same. Agencies. Over and over.

And the part that really blows me away, is that guys will happily still give girls money to pay their agencies to overwork them, and keep scheduling them even though they know they're overworked and not fit to continue doing this, just so that they can be shuffled off to the next city on the sex tour that they're begrudgingly signed up for, just to be used all over again. And they'll continue paying to be misled with disgustingly silly fake ads, seeing girls they bang without any sense of human communication or interaction, beyond skin slapping together. And they'll again be disappointed and let down the next time all of the impersonal skin slapping leaves the girl red and raw... Just to pay into the machine once again.

Like I said, the whole thing just makes me a bit sick and disgusted. Especially when there are guys who pass themselves off as some kind of a Romeo, for paying into all of this repeatedly.

Just... Ick. It's not at all my scene.

 

[Equity Market investor]

The way you word this, I agree. Apar from international recruitment's, I'm always baffled as to why the local ladies, who do, or choose, to work in these establishments, do not take the " INDY " route and reward themselves 100% of the payout? Unless there is something I'm not understanding within. ? I dunno. It's the " agency VS going INDY scenario.

PS..I voted option 2

I think my problem with shops like XDS isn't strictly related to the use of fake photos. Although, working as an artist I do find them to regularly use the most laughable photos of just about anyone. Photos that clearly aren't even taken in North America to begin with, which have been blatantly lifted off of some Instagram account. Photos with faces pasted on that are far too small for the bodies, faces at a completely different angle than the body, limbs far too long for their bodies, bodies made of taffy that have no discernable skeleton to them. Professional photos with zombie lighting and no shadows. All show that they're not even remotely real photos. It's insulting to even try and pass those off as "100% real!"

On top of that, they're trafficking girls across international borders for sex work. And then you get there to bang a girl you can't even communicate with, and the whole thing just gives me the icky creeps about everyone involved in the whole entire operation. And then guys get shocked and amazed that these poor girls are working through being sick and disaffected with being a sex object for men who don't even care to so much as say hi to them. And last time, someone just blamed this on "Asian culture", even though this never really comes up about entirely Chinese operations like SL and others. It's always. The same. Agencies. Over and over.

And the part that really blows me away, is that guys will happily still give girls money to pay their agencies to overwork them, and keep scheduling them even though they know they're overworked and not fit to continue doing this, just so that they can be shuffled off to the next city on the sex tour that they're begrudgingly signed up for, just to be used all over again. And they'll continue paying to be misled with disgustingly silly fake ads, seeing girls they bang without any sense of human communication or interaction, beyond skin slapping together. And they'll again be disappointed and let down the next time all of the impersonal skin slapping leaves the girl red and raw... Just to pay into the machine once again.

Like I said, the whole thing just makes me a bit sick and disgusted. Especially when there are guys who pass themselves off as some kind of a Romeo, for paying into all of this repeatedly.

Just... Ick. It's not at all my scene.

 

[masterpoonhunter]

" The main common thread we have is enjoyment of sex "

Yes, this is so.

Once one gets over the fact that in many cases (all cases?) the 'ad' uses fake pix (and that goes back to the days of Georgia Strait ads and all the classifieds), it is up to the pooner to decide if you want to offer your donation for whatever activity you and the SP have agreed upon. I don't think there is much more to that. If you are going to go down the rabbit hole of questioning why is this woman doing this, that is entirely up to the individual. If you have gotten into a relationship that is more than the appointment time spent together that is also the individual's decision.

The ad told me who to contact and how. It is then up to me to cut the deal and after that it is a matter of me having sex.

 

[Harmony-bc]

The way you word this, I agree. Apar from international recruitment's, I'm always baffled as to why the local ladies, who do, or choose, to work in these establishments, do not take the " INDY " route and reward themselves 100% of the payout? Unless there is something I'm not understanding within. ? I dunno. It's the " agency VS going INDY scenario.

PS..I voted option 2

it’s really hard work going independent. Especially in this decade where everything is so expensive and so much is online marketing.

if you have kids, you need a separate incall, which doubles what you have to come up with every month. You could maybe share with a couple of ladies. But then you have to juggle your appointments while trying to be discrete. Or you could rent a room off an agency. Either way going independent ain’t cheap. You have to completely furnish your incall in furniture that’s comfortable too. Clients won’t want to come back to something ghetto.

if you work out of your own home, you have to be really careful about traffic in the halls and try to keep anybody from noticing. Which means you can’t take as many appointments as you might want to.

Back in the day, you could have an ad in the Georgia straight and be busy. Them came the internet. Now it’s social media as well as expensive ads everywhere. For an introvert like me, maintaining an online presence is real work. Harder work than anything else. I don’t want to be an online influencer. But it’s just another tool to working and being successful in this decade.

being independent definitely isn’t for everybody

 

[Equity Market investor]

You bring up good points. I guess I'm still thinking back in the day. What you describe is, for sure, a working progress and making a name for yourself. Which you have. And you're right...we're in a different surrounding now. It's lik buying a place to live in now Versus 15 - 20 yrs ago here in Van.

it’s really hard work going independent. Especially in this decade where everything is so expensive and so much is online marketing.

if you have kids, you need a separate incall, which doubles what you have to come up with every month. You could maybe share with a couple of ladies. But then you have to juggle your appointments while trying to be discrete. Or you could rent a room off an agency. Either way going independent ain’t cheap. You have to completely furnish your incall in furniture that’s comfortable too. Clients won’t want to come back to something ghetto.

if you work out of your own home, you have to be really careful about traffic in the halls and try to keep anybody from noticing. Which means you can’t take as many appointments as you might want to.

Back in the day, you could have an ad in the Georgia straight and be busy. Them came the internet. Now it’s social media as well as expensive ads everywhere. For an introvert like me, maintaining an online presence is real work. Harder work than anything else. I don’t want to be an online influencer. But it’s just another tool to working and being successful in this decade.

being independent definitely isn’t for everybody

 

[Harmony-bc]

I saw this discussion on another forum. Many of the independent girls you see on Tryst are renting shared incall places with other providers, which I believe can cost $100 to $150 in many cases. So they might be taking similar or even higher cuts than agency girls if they aren't working out of their own space.

Per appointment, per day, per hour is a good distinction to make.

this is just a really expensive decade to live in. All around. Everything. It’s depressing hahaha

 

[pervypervison]

it’s really hard work going independent. Especially in this decade where everything is so expensive and so much is online marketing.

if you have kids, you need a separate incall, which doubles what you have to come up with every month. You could maybe share with a couple of ladies. But then you have to juggle your appointments while trying to be discrete. Or you could rent a room off an agency. Either way going independent ain’t cheap. You have to completely furnish your incall in furniture that’s comfortable too. Clients won’t want to come back to something ghetto.

if you work out of your own home, you have to be really careful about traffic in the halls and try to keep anybody from noticing. Which means you can’t take as many appointments as you might want to.

Back in the day, you could have an ad in the Georgia straight and be busy. Them came the internet. Now it’s social media as well as expensive ads everywhere. For an introvert like me, maintaining an online presence is real work. Harder work than anything else. I don’t want to be an online influencer. But it’s just another tool to working and being successful in this decade.

being independent definitely isn’t for everybody

i applaud all independents for how many things they have to manage and deal with. just the booking aspect alone would give me anxiety. I've been out with a friend who works as an independent and there's been multiple times where we'd been out getting a bite and I'd have to rush her home because someone requested a multi-hour booking.

another friend of mine that worked from her own place would have me over and then tell me last minute that a customer was on the way over. she'd be so chill about it, meanwhile I'm frantically trying to leave her place. one time i had to hide in the 2nd bedroom until she brought the customer into her room and then i tip-toed my way out of there

 

[pervypervison]

This is a good topic, but I don't understand why you would limit and focus only on AMP. Fake, heavily edited, outdated, and misleading photos are common and almost ubiquitous in the industry, including at agencies and with independent providers.

all good points you've made. i only chose to focus on Asian shops as that's what I'm most familiar with. so i was just curious about thoughts of other members that book using these places regularly.

if i was to comment on other categories of service providers, my input would be.....

• AMPs (Asian Massage Parlours - ie. Swan Lake, Phoenix, Watercube, Atlantis, etc)
  • i mainly focus on the service. i would never enter these places looking for a young hottie to give me a happy ending. If they're young(ish), that's a bonus.
  • I don't check their websites or photos. I just go in and test my luck until i find someone that gives a really massage + HJ
• LEOLIST Independents
  • I gave up ages ago on booking any asian independents as all the ones i tried were fake and a waste of time.
  • I got so tired of walking when that auntie door opens, I don't even bother going on Leolist unless i'm searching out someone that has a lot of good reviews on PERB
• Reputable Shops that use real photos (ie. Coco, Bunz, AF)
  • Been a mixed bag for me. Although I've never walked on a SP from any of these shops.
  • Pictures are generally accurate, but service/talent/looks seemed less predictable for me. Also the style of some of the in-call setups don't suit me. I typically go in the daytime and many of the girls have all the blinds open and sometimes windows open. But I personally enjoy sex in the night time, so at the asian shops, it at least feels like it's night time when I'm inside . I don't know if anyone else feels this way....maybe I'm just weird.
• Swedish Touch
  • I put them in a separate category because I haven't tried any other place with the same setup.
  • Although it's been a long time, the handful of girls that I visited there were as advertised on the site.
  • The higher price is the main deterrent for me.

 

[Harmony-bc]

all good points you've made. i only chose to focus on Asian shops as that's what I'm most familiar with. so i was just curious about thoughts of other members that book using these places regularly.

if i was to comment on other categories of service providers, my input would be.....

• AMPs (Asian Massage Parlours - ie. Swan Lake, Phoenix, Watercube, Atlantis, etc)
  • i mainly focus on the service. i would never enter these places looking for a young hottie to give me a happy ending. If they're young(ish), that's a bonus.
  • I don't check their websites or photos. I just go in and test my luck until i find someone that gives a really massage + HJ
• LEOLIST Independents
  • I gave up ages ago on booking any asian independents as all the ones i tried were fake and a waste of time.
  • I got so tired of walking when that auntie door opens, I don't even bother going on Leolist unless i'm searching out someone that has a lot of good reviews on PERB
• Reputable Shops that use real photos (ie. Coco, Bunz, AF)
  • Been a mixed bag for me. Although I've never walked on a SP from any of these shops.
  • Pictures are generally accurate, but service/talent/looks seemed less predictable for me. Also the style of some of the in-call setups don't suit me. I typically go in the daytime and many of the girls have all the blinds open and sometimes windows open. But I personally enjoy sex in the night time, so at the asian shops, it at least feels like it's night time when I'm inside . I don't know if anyone else feels this way....maybe I'm just weird.
• Swedish Touch
  • I put them in a separate category because I haven't tried any other place with the same setup.
  • Although it's been a long time, the handful of girls that I visited there were as advertised on the site.
  • The higher price is the main deterrent for me.

I'm right there with you on the lighting. Occasionally, somebody will want me to leave all the lights on. So bright ugh. lol. I'm not shy but I like ambiance. The windows in my room are blacked out. Mainly so the lights from 70 don't bug me when I'm sleeping and so i can nap in the day. Added bonus is my room is romantic/sexy at all hours of the day

 

[pervypervison]

I think my problem with shops like XDS isn't strictly related to the use of fake photos. Although, working as an artist I do find them to regularly use the most laughable photos of just about anyone. Photos that clearly aren't even taken in North America to begin with, which have been blatantly lifted off of some Instagram account. Photos with faces pasted on that are far too small for the bodies, faces at a completely different angle than the body, limbs far too long for their bodies, bodies made of taffy that have no discernable skeleton to them. Professional photos with zombie lighting and no shadows. All show that they're not even remotely real photos. It's insulting to even try and pass those off as "100% real!"

On top of that, they're trafficking girls across international borders for sex work. And then you get there to bang a girl you can't even communicate with, and the whole thing just gives me the icky creeps about everyone involved in the whole entire operation. And then guys get shocked and amazed that these poor girls are working through being sick and disaffected with being a sex object for men who don't even care to so much as say hi to them. And last time, someone just blamed this on "Asian culture", even though this never really comes up about entirely Chinese operations like SL and others. It's always. The same. Agencies. Over and over.

And the part that really blows me away, is that guys will happily still give girls money to pay their agencies to overwork them, and keep scheduling them even though they know they're overworked and not fit to continue doing this, just so that they can be shuffled off to the next city on the sex tour that they're begrudgingly signed up for, just to be used all over again. And they'll continue paying to be misled with disgustingly silly fake ads, seeing girls they bang without any sense of human communication or interaction, beyond skin slapping together. And they'll again be disappointed and let down the next time all of the impersonal skin slapping leaves the girl red and raw... Just to pay into the machine once again.

Like I said, the whole thing just makes me a bit sick and disgusted. Especially when there are guys who pass themselves off as some kind of a Romeo, for paying into all of this repeatedly.

Just... Ick. It's not at all my scene.

i think most of us that use these shops regularly don't dispute at all that majority of the photos used for SPs are either laughable or clearly taken from popular influencers. and where we all agree to disagree is the impact of using these photos. I don't even look at the photos, as i base my choices purely on reviews and input from handlers that I'm familiar with. I think where these photos do the most harm is when someone new to the hobby doesn't know any better and heads into an appointment only to be disappointed.
On the whole photo front, i don't blame the shops entirely because it's no different than how fast food is depicted in marketing materials versus the real thing. I can't remember the last time a McDonald's burger in real life looked as impressive as how it did in the ads. At the end of the day, they've delivered a burger with all the contents advertised, but the marketing presentation is quite different than what ends up in my hand.

Unpacking the other issues you raised, i think that's an entirely different discussion. For anyone that is being trafficked, I couldn't agree more that it's unacceptable and deeply disturbing. I know with great certain that the Asian shops I use are purely connecting SPs and their agents with an opportunity to make money in a safer and organized environment. Since restarting this hobby, i've ended up getting to know a number of SPs outside of their work. For the most part, it's never sexual when we hang out and in that time I've had the opportunity to listen to their stories and understand their situations better. All of them have chosen this line of work because they wanted to find the quickest way to make money and either expedite achieving their financial goals, or have the resources to help their single moms. I had a tough time wrapping my head around this, but culturally their mindset is very different. I've challenged a few of them before by asking, "Even though your mom appreciates you supporting her, do you think she would want you to do so through these means?". They all admitted that it would devastate their parent (which feeds into the extreme caution for privacy/anonymity ).
One girl I became quite good friends admitted to me that she had a 2yr kid back home and she wanted to save enough to buy a home in BC and move her family over. I was shocked at first and asked how difficult it was not being there to watch her kid grow up. She agreed it was difficult, but that making $35k to $40k a month was worth it.
I could go on with more examples about Asian SPs that had opportunities to be free and clear of doing this work, but have decided to come back time and time again. They're not being trafficked. Some made bad decisions or hit a stretch of bad luck experiencing a failed business, but for the majority of them, this is a choice.
I only see SPs regularly if I find we have a human connection. They can see I'm a genuine person that cares about their well being, but i just happen to really enjoy sex as well .

 

[MissingOne]

... For an introvert like me ...

As an introvert myself I know how hard it is to do the necessary self-promotion day after day to keep a business going. You seem able to keep on top of it. Kudos to you.