Provincial Haul From the HST

aznboi9

Don't mind me...
May 3, 2005
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Here Be Monsters
Thats probably because PERB is more than likely inhabited by males from middle and upper class incomes, with probably a large number of male business owners with disposable income to drop on escorts. This particular class of person, probably of which there are many posting in this thread may see this tax as a windfall because now they get to deduct 12% on their wide spread of so called business expenses rather than the 5% under the previous system and they are loathe to give that up .
No, higher income earners end up paying far more relative to the rest of the population, even with being able to write off business expenses. So you could argue that they simply have a better understanding of taxes and business, which may be why they are higher income earners.

And now that medium and large size businesses can write that tax off, someone else has to make up the shortfall. Thus the tax shifts more to the average salaried working stiff who devoid of writeoffs has to ante up more hard earned cash. Low income earners do get GST rebates but because the HST tentacles spread to so many new areas its a pittance compared to what it really cost them.
Well, if it is a tax shift, then it's a tax that a consumer was paying anyways, mostly by high income earners, since the cost of running a business is part of what makes the price on a product. Unless you think that businesses somehow don't include overhead expenses in their business models.

Low income earners all come out ahead with the HST rebates because they just don't pay very much in HST to begin with.

You can believe all that philosophical crap about creating more jobs in the future but there will be no absolute way to quantify whether it really happens or not.
It's not even philosophical; it's based on studies of the affect of VAT's in other jurisdictions. Just because you're not familiar with the studies, doesn't mean they don't exist.

What is real is the immediate impact in the pocket book of middle to low income wage earners who are living paycheque to paycheque battling to survive on minimal or no annual pay increases while the gas companies and the government take an ever increasing share of their earnings.

And of course someone in this thread calls them selfish.

I would suspect that a lot of those supporting the HST in this thread are not really as interested in the longterm "benefits" to the province as much as how it actually benefits them personally.
So people who are voting Yes because it's hitting them personally in the pocket are being unfairly accused of being selfish; but then the people who are voting No are doing so because you claim that it's going back to GST/PST to hit them personally in the pocket, i.e. they're being “selfish”. This is nothing more than baseless mudslinging.
 

twoblues

New member
Apr 25, 2006
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North Vancouver
Personally, I never understood why items like some reno costs, hair styling, and restaurants got away with not having to charge full PST/GST? If we go back to the PST/GST, I'm curious if those who were exempt before will retain that exemption.
 

aznboi9

Don't mind me...
May 3, 2005
1,380
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Here Be Monsters
Only 6% of BC taxpayers fit in the high income category so the amount that they pay is negligible. The vast majority are in the middle class, the people hit hardest by the tax because they do not qualify for the HST rebates. And as a percentage of their earned income they pay far less in HST than any other group.
The top 15% of taxpayers pay 40% of the HST, that's not negligible. You're just making stuff up.

The theory is of course that the tax savings for business will be passed along to consumers so the retail price of the product purchased will be lower. This was the same theory when the GST was applied in 1991 but that did not happen and will not be the case here either.
Actually, it has happened it the Atlantic provinces. Again, just because you aren't aware of the studies or choose not to look at them, does not mean they don't exist.

With the increases on basic services that most people will use such as phone, cable, internet, MacDonalds, take out pizzas cigarettes, adult sized childrens clothing etc. they pay far more as a percentage of their income than they did previously and though the HST rebates help somewhat its in the vicinity of $200 per year which will not offset the damage done by the increase in costs from imposition of the tax.
The HST rebates cover the increases in taxes paid for people under $10,000 such that they come out ahead. For people under $20,000, they need the income tax cuts that came in with the HST ($183 I believe) to for further offset; but they also come out ahead.

VAT application does not occur in isolation to other economic events such as the rise and fall of the dollar, commodity prices, competitive actions by other countries, so estimates can be made of the effects but they cannot be quantified. EG the government forecast is for the HST to be responsible for creating 140,000 new jobs by 2020 but a lot can happen economically during the next decade to influence what the actual numbers may be. And of course its in the governments interest to make the imposition of this tax as digestible as possible so these figures are more than likely padded. I mean its not like the Libs would ever lie about anything but....
Of course it difficult to make projections; but, again, just because you are not able to account for conflicting factors doesn't mean it can't be done. And this is coming from independent sources. The fact that you're making this about the Liberals indicates that, like Cockthropple, you're missing the point.

No its not baseless. Those who are against the tax will tell you directly that its because its affecting them personally eg poor Cock Throppled.
Of course it's baseless. It's also contradictory and holding a double standard; go read your statement again.

Lots of those on here, yourself included who support the tax seem to be implying that its not because they themselves benefit, its for the good of the province and the population as a whole and IMHO thats a steaming pile of camel dung. This place is anonymous so I dont know what your actual job or position is but judging from your orgasmic support of this tax Im certain that you must jack off to pictures of Kevin Falcon every night before bed time.
Aww, muffin. Once again, the ad hominem continues as the fall back tactic for those who cannot argue their position on merit and logic. Which is funny because it ok for Cockthropple to “orgasmically” attack HST; but not ok for defenders to do likewise. And, evidently, masturbating to images of politicians is a purely pro-HST phenomenon. Interesting.

But hey if this tax will bring all the benefits that you purport it will and even low income earners come out ahead, it makes one wonder why it wasnt forefront in the Libs last election campaign. Surely they should have been able to sell all these vast benefits to the BC voters. And also makes one wonder why in their pro HST referendum campaign, they decided instead to go with misleading ads sounding peculiarly like public service announcements making it sound like an even choice between 10% tax or 12% ignoring the wider range of items taxed and that the drop would occur over three years if at all.
Irrelevant. Who cares how the Liberals choose to campaign. The discussion on how “10% on everything” compares to “12% on a few things” as already been covered. If you're not willing to take the initiative to do your own homework on the issue, then that's your problem.
 

FunSugarDaddy

New member
Aug 15, 2008
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One thing that seems to confuse a few posters is that a vote to keep the HST, is not a vote for the Liberals, it's a vote for a more effective and efficient tax system than existed with the PST/GST, that's all it means.
 

chilli

Member
Jul 25, 2005
993
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One thing that seems to confuse a few posters is that a vote to keep the HST, is not a vote for the Liberals, it's a vote for a more effective and efficient tax system than existed with the PST/GST, that's all it means.
I'm not confused about anything.

This is a winfall for the provincial gov't - the tax burden once again is being shifted from corporations and companies to the consumer. In a time when many of my friends are personally still feeling the affects of the recession.

I have friends who are generally concerned about keeping their jobs.

I have friends who have lost equity in their homes.

And yes in large part it is ALSO a vote about the Liberals, how we as citizens choose to be governed. You can either be a sheep and get pissed on or you can say enough. You won't make major policy decisions without consulting the electorate. That's why we have elections and that's why we live in a democracy.

You are selfish, and it's obvious you are only thinking of yourself.
 

twoblues

New member
Apr 25, 2006
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North Vancouver
You won't make major policy decisions without consulting the electorate.
California seems to be doing well with that sort of thing...We elect people to make the policy decisions that they think is best for the province and the people. If they had to put everything to a vote, nothing would get done because no one wants to vote for new taxes/higher taxes even if they are needed.
 

FunSugarDaddy

New member
Aug 15, 2008
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I'm not confused about anything.

This is a winfall for the provincial gov't - the tax burden once again is being shifted from corporations and companies to the consumer. In a time when many of my friends are personally still feeling the affects of the recession.

I have friends who are generally concerned about keeping their jobs.

I have friends who have lost equity in their homes.

And yes in large part it is ALSO a vote about the Liberals, how we as citizens choose to be governed. You can either be a sheep and get pissed on or you can say enough. You won't make major policy decisions without consulting the electorate. That's why we have elections and that's why we live in a democracy.

You are selfish, and it's obvious you are only thinking of yourself.
Not true at all. To be perfectly honest I have no idea how much I benefit or don't benefit under either system because I've never kept track of it.

My only issue is to stream-line government as much as possible.
 

aznboi9

Don't mind me...
May 3, 2005
1,380
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Here Be Monsters
No I was looking at a different report, which as it turns out may be more accurate than the "unbiased" one you took yours from http://www.theprovince.com/news/Bala...777/story.html
Another ad hominem. If you have a report that shows that the top 15% of income earners are not paying 40% of the HST, then show it. Otherwise, yes you are making it up. But given that the top 10% of income earners typically pay the majority of taxes overall, those numbers don’t sound unreasonable, in which case, my point still stands.

That wasnt because retailers dropped prices due to reduced costs which was what I was getting at, it was because the Maritime provinces all dropped their PST rates from 11-12% to 8% when the tax was first harmonized and took a bit of a hit on tax returns, unlike here. Maybe you should have read the study more closely rather than skimming.
Clearly, you didn’t even read it at all. The CPI drop was observed independent of the HST rate adjustment.

Again this information comes from the Binning report which is now under fire. The link again http://www.theprovince.com/news/Bala...777/story.html
Nice try. But the facts exist regardless of the source. And no, that wasn’t my only source. Are you saying that the income tax exemption wasn’t raised from $9,000 to $11,000? Then please demonstrate when this exemption was lowered again.

Thanks for making my point, it is difficult to predict accurately so its hard to take any of those job creation estimates seriously. And as for making it about the Liberals. Well actually it is about the Liberals and how democracy works. The way this entire thing went down is a betrayal of trust by politicians of the electorate and actually has more serious repercussions for many people than the imposition of the HST itself. When Ontario imposed the tax they did not impose it until consulting with the public and business groups for feedback. When the Maritimes imposed it consumers did get some benefits out of it. The Liberals chose to lie and ignited their own shitstorm.
Uh, no. It’s about whether you prefer paying under HST or PST/GST. The time to make a statement about the Liberals is during an election, when you’re making a decision ABOUT THE LIBERALS and IT DOESN’T COST YOU MORE TAXES.

Sorry but I believe a lot of people are concerned about misleading advertising, especially since your side would continually take umbrage with Bill VanderZaalm for using what you consider half truths and lies in his material misrepresenting the HST
That’s an issue of people taking the initiative to inform themselves properly.

It doesnt really matter what either of us think anyways the public will have their say and who knows which way they will lean. Its going to be close. I can only hope that your smug condescending arrogance which embodies almost all of your posts on almost any topic over the years will one day be your downfall.
If a person posts in a respectful manner, then I’ve always responded in kind; and I’ve also never been petty enough to wish ill on another. But since you didn’t wish to do that, then I’ve only decided to treat your posts in kind.
 

not2old

New member
Jul 30, 2006
574
6
0
Victoria
Personally, I never understood why items like some reno costs, hair styling, and restaurants got away with not having to charge full PST/GST? If we go back to the PST/GST, I'm curious if those who were exempt before will retain that exemption.
If people think that going back to the old PST/GSt system will give them what they had before, give your heads a shake.

There is not a snowballs chance in hell that they will put in such a mish mash of tax laws like they had (unicycles were taxed, bicycles were not, Service to jump start a car was not taxed, service to charge a battery was).

If we go back to the old PST/GST, a wider range of goods/services will be charged PST, similar to the HST model.
 

luvsdaty

Well-known member
Some guys got hired because of the colour of there skin WTF! Next thing you know there gonna allow women in the work place & allow gays to marry! Oh & eliminate the head tax on people of asian decent. Yup if it was all white guys working, the world would be just peachy.... Although i do agree about waste in both levels of gov't,The federal budget for civilian employees is $200 billion annually! The dept of indian affairs has a budget of $9 billion,the only people i see driving $60,000 trucks in that dept are the lawyers & chief councellors.
There's so much redundancy(management&employees) in gov't,the amount of money that is wasted is appalling.Just look at the $5 million the libs wasted on ads for the hst.
 
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