Proposed Transit expansion to North Shore

[badbadboy]

Anyone who lives or commutes to North / West Vancouver usually experiences rush hour lasting most of the day. Forget about getting anywhere quickly on all the feeder routes to Lions Gate or Iron Workers Bridges. It’s been a major pain for all of my adult life.

The first report I read about bridges or tunnels was written in the 1970’s. This link discusses the first draft of potential new upgrades to the North Shore. Keep in mind the last bridge was built in the early 1960’s and Lions Gate was built in the 1930’s. Clearly the population has increased substantially since the 60’s and North Shore is due for a new crossing.

I heard District N Vancouver mayor stating the plans will span the next 30 years. I can’t believe that with such huge traffic jams now that it will be part of a 30 year plan! Wake up Mayors!

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/mobile/these...tween-vancouver-and-the-north-shore-1.4835584

In my mind two crossings are required with Skytrain or light rail in a loop to Park Royal and along lower North Vancouver to a new bridge crossing with train and vehicles to Burnaby and downtown Vancouver. Yes it’s going to cost many billions of dollars. It’s time to bite the bullet and get improvements started.

 

[Gardener]

Agreed, it’s high time. A Skytrain link must be a priority with any North van transit plan. Time to pull the trigger.

 

[CanineCowboy]

I totally agree that despite the high cost, we need to continue to build rapid transit infrastructure, but as always the cost creates scarcity and as a region we need to decide where we are going to get the most benefit/ridership for the cost.

Despite the snarled traffic on the Northshore, the total population and population growth of the three municipalities doesn't compare with other underserviced municipalities. It has about 200,000 people strung from Horseshoe Bay to Deep Cove (about 30 km) and the combined population growth rate is the lowest in the region. Another problem is that outside of Lower Lonsdale the population isn't concentrated enough to support a cost efficient rapid system to run along the Northshore - although it would be amazing to link Phibbs Exchange to Park Royal (or BC Ferries) and the Quay to Waterfront.

As a side note, West Vancouver residents already expressed their disdain towards having rapid bus extended into their municipality, stating they don't use or want transit - kind of like the anti-bike lane crowd.

I think the link from Waterfront to Lonsdale Quay, although a deep and long crossing, would make the most sense to link the existing transit infrastructure and the highest population density into the rapid system.

And although I would hope the project is less than 30 years away, I remember going to a community consultation/skytrain open house at VCC King Ed Campus in the mid to late 90s to look at plans for the extension from Commercial/Broadway to UBC which even then was a no brainer for ridership.

Personally I would pay an additional $1000 a year in property tax and an additional $.15/litre of gasoline if it was used to expand and improve the transit infrastructure in our region.

 

[Gardener]

^^^^
All very valid points

 

[rlock]

I remember these same discussion back when they were deciding on how to fix or replace the Lions Gate Bridge back in the 1990's. (Really dating myself here, but I was young and interested in this stuff).

The First and Second Narrows are actually very tricky terrain for building a bridge (or tunnel), but it's not like building a tunnel mid-harbour would be any easier.

The North Shore is not like the bridges between Van and Richmond, where you can lose one and still be more or less OK. The thing is, if they build bridges that are so critical, they should always have a basic idea also of where and how to replace it - set aside some land just for that and never build anything major on it, just so in 50 or 100 years they can have a spot to build the new crossing without shutting down the old one.

Municipal politicians are greedy fuckers, always in developers' pockets, and they love to start slapping up high-rise buildings on any patch of land that doesn't have one already, so they cannot be trusted to make these decisions. And provincial governments think only about "budget" issues. The Canada Line was built too small, because they were cheapskates and in a rush, so the stations are too small, and therefore the capacity too small as well. Plus the goofs chose a different system that's incompatible with Skytrain. PLUS they should have set the line up for some future tunnel to cross Burrard inlet to the North Shore, but they didn't bother. They were looking 5 years down the road, not 50, and that's just idiotic when you build things that are this important.

The North Shore situation is terrible, but did they consider any of that when they let all 3 NS municipalities expand unchecked, along with Lions Bay, Squamish and Whistler? You can tell how little they thought about it when they got rid of BC Rail (prior to the Olympics) instead of expanding passenger rail service up to Squamish, Whistler, and Pemberton. If they had given life to that, plus revived the Interurban rail service out to the Fraser Valley, then you might have the makings of a real modern 21st century transportation system. Real commuter rail, taking pressure off the roads and reducing carbon emissions as a bonus. But they have no goddamn vision of what should be, only political points to score trying to patch together the inadequate system we already have. Coordinated, rational planning is alien to them - they have no goddamn idea what they really want to do, and they change their plans with every new election (i.e. Christy Clark and her out-of-the-blue decision to replace the Massey tunnel with a bridge).

In general, Metro Vancouver and the province should have a master plan & schedule to replace every major crossing. You can compress the timing or stretch it out a bit, but the main thing is to know what to do in what order, and to set aside the right-of-ways for it, so nothing can be built that is in the way. Patullo will be up for replacement soon, and the Massey tunnel. But what next after that? Sorry, north shore, but it's probably Knight Street Bridge that needs it most, and then after that... Queensborough? Yeah, somewhere in there will be something for the North Shore, but I am hoping that they find a way to extend the Canada line or something, not try to build some sort of car tunnel from the middle of downtown to the middle of North Van which will permanently fuck up the traffic in both.

 

[rlock]

Despite the snarled traffic on the Northshore, the total population and population growth of the three municipalities doesn't compare with other underserviced municipalities. It has about 200,000 people strung from Horseshoe Bay to Deep Cove (about 30 km) and the combined population growth rate is the lowest in the region. Another problem is that outside of Lower Lonsdale the population isn't concentrated enough to support a cost efficient rapid system to run along the Northshore - although it would be amazing to link Phibbs Exchange to Park Royal (or BC Ferries) and the Quay to Waterfront.

As a side note, West Vancouver residents already expressed their disdain towards having rapid bus extended into their municipality, stating they don't use or want transit - kind of like the anti-bike lane crowd.

I wouldn't worry about density as a motive. The presence of rapid transit creates density. New developments are opportunistic, therefore there is not much that should be asked except that the routes be well planned and preserved, and then developers can work around that afterwards.

As for the Marine Drive "rapid bus", they screwed that up. I think West Van people were correct - Marine Drive is simply not wide enough to handle that. It meant essentially cutting it from 2 lanes down to 1 plus a bus lane, which would be intolerable. The North Van side has these sort of choke points too, particularly between Pemberton and Keith.

There is honestly not much they could do, considering the buildings being so close-in on either side cannot be ripped down. The fools approved a bunch of new construction along the corridor in both West Van and North Van, and blew any opportunity to wide Marine to 3 lanes (2 plus some sort of bus & bike lane arrangement). Nobody thought of this when they built all those relatively new buildings, which are not just businesses but apartments also.

Like I said before, developers get priority over city planners, not just on the North Shore, but all across the Lower Mainland. Nobody thinks of these things until after it's too late.

 

[badbadboy]

I totally agree that despite the high cost, we need to continue to build rapid transit infrastructure, but as always the cost creates scarcity and as a region we need to decide where we are going to get the most benefit/ridership for the cost.

Despite the snarled traffic on the Northshore, the total population and population growth of the three municipalities doesn't compare with other underserviced municipalities. It has about 200,000 people strung from Horseshoe Bay to Deep Cove (about 30 km) and the combined population growth rate is the lowest in the region. Another problem is that outside of Lower Lonsdale the population isn't concentrated enough to support a cost efficient rapid system to run along the Northshore - although it would be amazing to link Phibbs Exchange to Park Royal (or BC Ferries) and the Quay to Waterfront.

As a side note, West Vancouver residents already expressed their disdain towards having rapid bus extended into their municipality, stating they don't use or want transit - kind of like the anti-bike lane crowd.

I think the link from Waterfront to Lonsdale Quay, although a deep and long crossing, would make the most sense to link the existing transit infrastructure and the highest population density into the rapid system.

And although I would hope the project is less than 30 years away, I remember going to a community consultation/skytrain open house at VCC King Ed Campus in the mid to late 90s to look at plans for the extension from Commercial/Broadway to UBC which even then was a no brainer for ridership.

Personally I would pay an additional $1000 a year in property tax and an additional $.15/litre of gasoline if it was used to expand and improve the transit infrastructure in our region.

All valid points for people who live on the N Shore. Biggest problem is employers are losing employees because of a total lack of RAPID transit. High rent and a shitty commute is the biggest complaint from skilled jobs to most hourly workers etc. West Van may not want an exchange but many workers would use it.

I often use Seabus and would say an exchange at the Quay could be broadened to accommodate addition of rail transit. To me making a loop around the harbour from Waterfront to W Van to Ironworkers and then on to Burnaby would be ideal. That’s where most of the traffic tie ups are happening throughout the day.