Carman Fox

Poverty Hotel Buying Binge

Very Veronica

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Aug 2, 2004
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From The Tyee, Feb 12, 2007

'At least 20 SRA (single room accomodation) hotels were sold between March & October of last year according to figures provided by the City of Vancouver. Those hotels represent about 1,010 of the estimated 5,000 SRA rooms that remain in the Downtown Eastside. More than a third of those recently transferred rooms are now in the hands of developer Robert Wilson, a relatively unknown player in Vancouver's fastest-changing neighbourhood.'

Full story:

http://thetyee.ca/News/2007/02/12/SRAHotels/

Yes, that olympic clock is a tickin'.
 

Sir Jim

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Jun 13, 2003
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Does this bother you somehow VV? I think it may just be a guy who realizes value when he sees it. As the neighbourhoods around East van gentrify there will need to be someone who can provide economical places to buy for the people who work downtown rather than having to commute from the burbs.

When I see the escalating prices for condos in Yaletown and other areas nearby I am certain that this will have a spill-over effect to other immediate locales.

What are your thoughts?
 

FuZzYknUckLeS

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May 11, 2005
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...I think it may just be a guy who realizes value when he sees it. As the neighbourhoods around East van gentrify there will need to be someone who can provide economical places to buy for the people who work downtown rather than having to commute from the burbs.
Uh...ya....

that would be all well and good PROVIDING that he plans to do just such a thing. I couldn't imagine him going the other way and choking every penny he can out of some of the last remaining downtown real estate in the city. :rolleyes:
 

Creole Lady Marmalade

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Dec 20, 2004
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Does this bother you somehow VV? I think it may just be a guy who realizes value when he sees it. As the neighbourhoods around East van gentrify there will need to be someone who can provide economical places to buy for the people who work downtown rather than having to commute from the burbs.

When I see the escalating prices for condos in Yaletown and other areas nearby I am certain that this will have a spill-over effect to other immediate locales.

What are your thoughts?
So what do you suggest the city do with those who make barely an income to live in a SRO?
 

georgebushmoron

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Mar 25, 2003
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Poverty is not solvable. The capitalist system requires that a segment of the population is dirt poor. However, there is no excuse for ghettos.

Gentrification is an excellent way to get rid of a ghetto. The public good is served because gentrification boosts the local economy, whereas ghettos are a black hole of economic viability.

Poverty activists protest the destruction of these flea farms as though their existence provides a means for the poor to get shelter. Unfortunately, the activists do this as a means of last resort - because in their minds the government should be funding housing for the poor that at least keeps the profits in the hands of the people, keeps a minimum sanitary standard, and eradicates rampant drug use through tough regulation and policing. I'd like to take it a step further and instead of making it government-provided housing, we make it an institution to permanently house the drug ridden specifically.

Gentrification is thus one half the solution to eliminate the ghetto. The other half is institutionalization of drug addicts.
 

ezsmile

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Jan 5, 2003
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One of the hotels sold was the Shaldon......back in the heyday that used to be a short-time hotel for the girls from Georgia St, then from that show-lounge place on Hornby, and then maybe even the girls from the Penthouse....seems so long ago I can't really remember.....

Holy fuck I think I'm gettin' old
 

Sonny

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Sep 12, 2004
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More than a third of those recently transferred rooms are now in the hands of developer Robert Wilson, a relatively unknown player in Vancouver's fastest-changing neighbourhood.
Not to be "relatively unknown" for long.
 

Sonny

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Sep 12, 2004
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Poverty is not solvable.
Poverty is solvable, but the solution is outside the normal viewpoint of all politicians, regardless of stripe. And one does not have to think socialist.


The capitalist system requires that a segment of the population is dirt poor.
Can't seem to find that requirement anywhere in my copy of Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations.

An enlightened approach to capitalism would ensure that no one need be impoverished. It is short-sightedness that results in destitution for a large segment of the human population.
 

OTBn

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Gentrification is an excellent way to get rid of a ghetto. The public good is served because gentrification boosts the local economy, whereas ghettos are a black hole of economic viability.

Gentrification is thus one half the solution to eliminate the ghetto. The other half is institutionalization of drug addicts.
is it a ghetto? Is everyone living there a drug addict?

the involvement of developer’s, to the degree described, is not typical phased urban gentrification. What’s described is a land/building grab that will displace many persons in a very short period of time… again, not typical urban gentrification where revitalization and upgrading can follow a decades long path in accommodating and better managing the displacement of the original inhabitants.

institutionalization? Hmmm… is that enforcement… or healing/treatment? Where does your institutionalize call fit within the 4 pillars: prevention, treatment, harm reduction, enforcement… or does it (fit)?
 

georgebushmoron

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institutionalization? Hmmm… is that enforcement… or healing/treatment? Where does your institutionalize call fit within the 4 pillars: prevention, treatment, harm reduction, enforcement… or does it (fit)?
I guess it fits, but it doesn't. Let's call it for what it really is. Did you ever read of the insane asylums of the turn of the century? What we have on the streets of the DTES are people who are insane from drugs. But unlike the insane of the turn of the century, these people also help the spread of disease and are a significant contribution to the property crimes in Vancouver. It has also been reported that some of the highest rates of HIV infection are in the DTES area. It's become so bad, the health authority tracks each and every one of them infected with HIV with legal ramifications should they knowingly spread it. What they are effectively doing is putting them under paper quarantine. But all this is not 100% effective, thus the problem persists for years and years. The real solution is institutionalization like they did the insane of the turn of the century. In an institution, they can be forced to get medication. They can be prevented from spreading disease. They are prevented from committing crimes. They are protected from predators like our man Pickton.
 

PoorGuy

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May 11, 2002
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The amount of money needed to renovate these SRO hotels to today's building codes must be enormous. We're talking about installing sprinkler systems, alone which would cost around $15000 per unit. Imagine the cost to renovate an 80 room SRO hotel.

I feel sorry for those old first generation Chinese guys living in Chinatown/Strathcona. Sure they own those 2-8 story rooming houses and commercial buildings sprinkled around the eastside, but they lie empty and dilapidated. Most of them are turn of the century structures. I can see why they're only too eager to sell.
 

squid

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Dec 25, 2002
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I guess my beef about the whole DTES is the fact that despite the Feds and Victoria both running surpluses and being well aware of the issues that they can't throw a little money to help the problems. Is money the only solution, no. But having a few clean, warm places for those looking for sheltar couldn't hurt. I grew up in the neighbourhood. Walked downtown along Hastings with my buddies when I was in elementary school without giving it a second thought. I now work just off the DTES and get to see the problems daily. From time to time it makes me sick to see what shit is happening and there are times when I think there are somethere really in need of help.
 

sdw

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I guess my beef about the whole DTES is the fact that despite the Feds and Victoria both running surpluses and being well aware of the issues that they can't throw a little money to help the problems. Is money the only solution, no. But having a few clean, warm places for those looking for sheltar couldn't hurt. I grew up in the neighbourhood. Walked downtown along Hastings with my buddies when I was in elementary school without giving it a second thought. I now work just off the DTES and get to see the problems daily. From time to time it makes me sick to see what shit is happening and there are times when I think there are somethere really in need of help.


The real solution to the problem is creating small amounts of social housing all over the Lower Mainland. Something like 8 - 10 social housing units in each location. All units widely dispersed so that there wouldn't be another social housing unit within 15 - 20 blocks.

That way the dealers can't just park themselves on a corner on Hastings with a couple of thousand customers all within a block's walk.

When all of the people are crammed into one area, they feed on each other and become the social norm in the area.

People are by nature conformational and if the social norm is more rational behavior they will make the effort to blend in with the people around them.

The reason we can't do this is the NIMBYs. Everytime a social housing project is put into the approvals process, the NIMBYs come out in force and shut it down.
 

jjinvan

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There is only ONE solution to the issue of people who are unable to properly take care of themselves. Have someone else take care of them.

People who can't get their act together are NOT helped by handouts of cash. The classic example is the family in Quebec that won over $13 million dollars in the lottery and then was back on welfare within a couple of years.

Throwing money at the problem does nothing.

If only the lefties would grow up and realize that there are only two possible 'realities'

1) Self-determination is a fundamental right, in which case, responsibility for one's own self is a burden which MUST go along with that right.

2) Self-determination is a priviledge and those who have shown to be unable to accept responsibility for themselves and choose to depend on the rest of society to take responsibility for them, lose the power to make all their own decisions.

The idea that self determination is a right and being protected from the consequences of one's bad choices is also a right is preposterous.

again, as I am sure it will be trumpeted out by the usual lefties, disability benefits for the truely disabled is a whole different ball of wax and should NOT be lumped in with bailing out those who insist on making awful life choices. It is long past the time for junkies and lazy bums to hide behind the handicapped.
 

jjinvan

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Grumble, editing is broken, the last sentence should read:

"It is long past the time for junkies and lazy bums to STOP hiding behind the handicapped"
 

jjinvan

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People are by nature conformational and if the social norm is more rational behavior they will make the effort to blend in with the people around them.
Did you ever think that maybe a significant proportion of those who are unable to live in our society with a reasonable level of personal success are those who are unable to conform to the norms and rational behaviour of those around them?

How many of those on the DTES streets were actually BORN there? Not too many
 

sdw

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Did you ever think that maybe a significant proportion of those who are unable to live in our society with a reasonable level of personal success are those who are unable to conform to the norms and rational behaviour of those around them?

How many of those on the DTES streets were actually BORN there? Not too many
Let's see. Myself, my brother and two of my sisters are Bi Polar or Manic Depressive. My brother lives in the DTES and is also addicted to drugs, which means of course that he doesn't take the medications that keep the other three of us sane and very highly producing members of society.

The excuse that genetic mental disorders can't be controlled is crap. Just about all real mental disorders can be treated and the person can be a producing member of society. In fact, many people with genetic mental disorders are more productive than the average member of society.

Why is my brother in the DTES? Because they keep kicking him out of Woodlands whenever he manages to put a week of lucid behaviour together. That means that he goes right back to the DTES because that's where he can easily get the drugs he wants.

Why isn't my brother living with me or my sisters? Because he's a violent person who will attack you while you are sleeping. He also empties your house of anything portable.

What would do him the most good? Being in Woodlands as a permanent resident.

What would be next best? A social housing unit in Mission where he can't get his drugs easily.

When he can't get drugs and is in a group home with live-in staff, he does fairly well. The problem is that finding a place to put a group home and finding staff that can hack the job is hard enough without the government cutting back the funding. A group home without live-in staff doesn't work because they start using it as a crash pad until it's closed down.
 

georgebushmoron

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Mar 25, 2003
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Let's see. Myself, my brother and two of my sisters are Bi Polar or Manic Depressive. My brother lives in the DTES and is also addicted to drugs, which means of course that he doesn't take the medications that keep the other three of us sane and very highly producing members of society.

The excuse that genetic mental disorders can't be controlled is crap. Just about all real mental disorders can be treated and the person can be a producing member of society. In fact, many people with genetic mental disorders are more productive than the average member of society.

Why is my brother in the DTES? Because they keep kicking him out of Woodlands whenever he manages to put a week of lucid behaviour together. That means that he goes right back to the DTES because that's where he can easily get the drugs he wants.

Why isn't my brother living with me or my sisters? Because he's a violent person who will attack you while you are sleeping. He also empties your house of anything portable.

What would do him the most good? Being in Woodlands as a permanent resident.

What would be next best? A social housing unit in Mission where he can't get his drugs easily.

When he can't get drugs and is in a group home with live-in staff, he does fairly well. The problem is that finding a place to put a group home and finding staff that can hack the job is hard enough without the government cutting back the funding. A group home without live-in staff doesn't work because they start using it as a crash pad until it's closed down.
Your post is an example of a problem more complex than I have imagined. So I'm sorry if my ideas had in any way offended you, as your situation is real and my post was nothing but an idea. If there was anything I said that should be corrected, then please feel free to do so. I prefer to learn than to state anything from any obvious ignorance.
 

sdw

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Your post is an example of a problem more complex than I have imagined. So I'm sorry if my ideas had in any way offended you, as your situation is real and my post was nothing but an idea. If there was anything I said that should be corrected, then please feel free to do so. I prefer to learn than to state anything from any obvious ignorance.
I didn’t see anything in your 2 earlier posts that was a problem. In fact, I agree that it’s impossible to solve poverty. I disagree that it’s the result of the Capitalist system.

Poverty is the result of a lack of emotional strength combined with a lack of skills and often a low IQ. There are no political systems on this planet where there is not poverty. In fact, the poor are treated much worse under most other political systems. If you think girls are treated badly here, try being a girl in China, Thailand, Indonesia or the Philippines. Try being poor there. Most of us wouldn’t last 6 months. We have the food banks, missions, emergency health care, (really hungry – get the ambulance to pick you up) and we do provide money for shelter.

When people have been beaten down through their youth with abuse and a lack of love, they either become very strong emotionally (sometimes pathologically unable to have empathy with anyone) or they become entirely without self-esteem.

When you combine the emotionally strong with a low IQ you get Willie Picton.
When you combine the emotionally weak with a low IQ you get most of his victims.

Most of the people in the DTES are emotionally weak with either low IQs (they never had the possibility of working), low skills (they worked in BIC jobs) or sheer bad luck. (WCB, ICBC or life screwed them) What they have in common is they are all poor. Most don’t see $700 a month.

My difficulty with the situation is that we have people with moderate to high IQs who make it their business to remove any money the poor have and facilitate the use of the poor to steal from their fellow citizens.

The scrap metal merchants know that a bronze plaque honouring some figure had to be stolen from a public place, in fact, if they read the plaque they know where it was stolen.

The pawn brokers know that merchandise with the price tag still on it has been stolen and where it was stolen from.

They are too concerned with making an easy dollar to care.

The cure is to spread the poor out all over the Lower Mainland. Provide no focus so that a dealer can pick a street corner with a couple of thousand nearby customers, a pawn broker can locate his store close at hand or a scrap metal merchant can be conveniently nearby.

I come from a culture of organized abuse. That’s what Bountiful BC is. The reason for the Bi Polar/Manic Depressive and some other Genetic Mental problems is the inbreeding and the way the culture beats down and abuses it’s citizens.

The same thing happens on many Indian Reservations and secretly in many families. We also accept as refugees many people that are already broken. Many of these people end up on our various skid-rows because people don’t want them in their back yard. What people want is for them to be centralized so that it’s less expensive to assuage our guilt by providing services at one location. That is the worst thing we can do for these people because it also allows the predators to easily use them.

I was very lucky as were my sisters. All of us are creative and have very high IQs, all of us are skilled at what we do. I was also fortunate that despite my lack of empathy for most people, the US Military ensured that I act properly and inside the rule set they imposed. I could have easily been a Willie Pickton and that’s why I hate the Willie Picktons of this world.
 
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