Politics - What do you believe

[ace85]

I am turning into Maverick73 hear, but I am curious as to what are the core "factors" that drive your political beliefs.

Mine are as follows

1) Fiscal Conservatism - Stop acting as though it is your money, it is our money. Tax cuts are always good, and I can do more with my money than you can.

2) Personal Responsibiliy - I will look after myself and my family thanks, help to build as society that encourages and depends on this. It will be a good thing.

3) Nothing is ever the same for everyone. People will get better and worse service than me from a Restaurant, a store and a doctor, trying to pretend that a society (Canada,) can and will give equal health care / education to every one, is a fairy tail. Trying to do this creates a system that is only capable of providing equally bad health care for everyone. I am quite capable in working to ensure I get acceptable service.

4) You cannot legislate common sense. Don't try.

5) You cannot legislate "morality" but you can legislate to encourage "morality" it is important to do so.

6) Lots of politicians have radical personal agendas and ideas. Those who pretend they don't are lying (left and right). The reality is most of this crap doesn't matter.

7) Abortion is not a good thing, and should not be encouraged, the right to have an abortion should not be celebrated. In probably 97.5% of cases it required becasue of a failure in many things (family, personal responsibility etc). If it were less conveneint the demand might be greater to take more responsibility.

8) Criminals need to be both punished and rehabilitated, and there is nothing wrong with ensuring certain criminals cannot commit crimes again.

9) Gun crime, drug crimes, other violent crime, and crimes against children, should have a maximum 2 strike rule.

10) Marriage is between a Man and Woman but before you freak out on me I think couples via civil union, and homosexual couples should have all of the "societal rights" spousal benefits, beneficiary benfits etc. As should certain "family" relationships, (like grown children living with parents, or siblings looking after each other). It is about commitment after all. And the word marriage has nothing to do with it.

11) Men and women are not the same, this doesn't mean they aren't equal, but a society that pretends they are is making due versus maximizing its potential.

 

[georgebushmoron]

1. Democracy is all very well and fine, but the general population is either too stupid, too uncaring, not educated enough, and too naive to deserve to vote. And politicians are too corrupt for democracy to function as it should. In most cases, democracy does not serve the people well. It's better for society to have a benevolent dictatorship than a disfunctional democracy.

2. The market is a poor public policy tool. It is only good at valuing goods and services where there is demand flexibility for the product, such as what barbeque to buy. It is terrible as a tool to solve health care issues (where demand is inflexible). Remarkably, there are fools who believe the market can solve health care, military human resources, social security and other such issues.

3. Big government is not evil. Government is elected by the people to serve the people. Why is then that voters elect politicians to reduce government, which represents the voters? Does this not reduce the effectiveness of what government can do for the people?

4. Personal income taxation is not evil, it is benign. Many believe that taxation is evil. But taxation is merely the redistribution of income from one citizen to other citizens. It might only become evil if the politicians involved see fit to redistribute your income to private corporations.

5. Corporate taxation is stupid. Leftists typically want high taxes on the corporation, either as some form of punishment or to effect a public policy. It is stupid because the taxes are then passed onto the consumer or will kill the profitability of the corporation which will then kill the corporation. Corporate taxation is thus nothing more than a consumer tax.

6. Corporate sponsorship of politicians is corruption, pure and simple. No need to explain here. But how blatantly stupid can you get when the most powerful country on earth is so riddled with such a cancer. All politicians should have to publish all their financial ties and income. No politician should be allowed to run for office if they hold any stock, and should not be allowed to hold major positions or stock for 10 years after they leave office. A politician's goal should not be about his own personal wealth, and all such incentives should be removed.

7. All non-natives should leave North America right now. Whites should go back to Europe, Blacks to Africa, Asians to Asia. The human race needs to purify. Each color is beautiful. We should not become a race of mutts.

 

[ace85]

I don't disagree

With the Benevolent Dictatorship.

Breading someone and raising them to lead isn't a bad idea.

Taxation is a necessity of large integrated society. I don't promote getting rid of it, but we are over taxed. Reducing it is important.

Big Buracracy is BAD. BIG GOVERNMENT BUILDS BIG BURACRACY. Chicken Egg. Rebuild it again. Do it better.

Tons of aspects of Health Care are flexible demand related (and growing). Do you really think the governement should be deciding what health care procedures are necessary to you. Should you really have to ask permission to get something done to your body? Market related aspects as a part of a "entire" health care system will enhance the system.

Natives emigrated over the bearing straight. North America would be empty.

I agree about corportate sponsorship of politicians.

 

[georgebushmoron]

Outsource all health care to India when the cost is going to be above the cost a 2-way flight ($1000). That way, it will be cheaper. Then once the Indian economy takes off and they have inflation, outsource it to Pakistan. Then outsource it to Nairobi.

As for Indians from North America who need to get health care, instead of buying 2-way tickets, issue only a 1-way ticket as part of my "repatriate back to your homeland" plan where everyone goes back to where they came from (Caucasians to Europe, Asians to Asia, etc.).

As for Natives who crossed the Bearing Strait to get here, send them back too just to be fair.

 

[westwoody]

I have heard of surgery-tourism trips to China, but haven't heard any first hand accounts.
There was a good show on Polish radio (Radio Polonia) a while ago about a hospital in western Poland that caters to patients from Germany. Many Germans were using it to avoid waits and their insurance system was saving a lot of money even though the staff were earning more than staffs in other local hospitals.
This might not be a bad idea.
One of my friends has been doing surgery for a few years and all she wants is to move to the US and make a pile of cash...after training here on our money. But that's a whole other debate.

 

[ace85]

Government Waste

Where to start.

You start by making them live on less.

It is no different than someone in huge personal debt. You take away their ability to live beyond their means.

Big Governemnt cant die it will continue to take from the population. The example of the business was OK, but eventually it went under.

It costs to much for governements to do anything becasue of the buracracy, that is the reality.

Read about David Dignwall, Ad Scam, MPs Salaries, the senate, the Governer General, waste in the Armed Forces, continued feeding of funds to Quebec, the CBC, MAritimes Prop ups. 15 billion in EI there is plenty of money out there.

 

[The Lizard King]

Well, I believe in the soul, the cock, the pussy, the small of a woman's back, the hanging curve ball, high fiber, good scotch, that the novels of Susan Sontag are self-indulgent, overrated crap. I believe Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone. I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing Astroturf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve, and I believe in long, slow, deep, soft, wet kisses that last three days.

Sorry...thought I was in the baseball thread and reverted to my best Crash Davis.

 

[georgebushmoron]

Big Buracracy is BAD. BIG GOVERNMENT BUILDS BIG BURACRACY. Chicken Egg. Rebuild it again. Do it better.

Where does it say that big gov means big bureaucracy? It does not have to be the case. Legislate against gov' unions, make them illegal. That's a good way to kill a bureaucracy.

Besides, big gov employs citizens. It can be easily legislated against sourcing out. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[Herb_The_Perb]

Well, I believe in the soul, the cock, the pussy, the small of a woman's back, the hanging curve ball, high fiber, good scotch, that the novels of Susan Sontag are self-indulgent, overrated crap. I believe Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone. I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing Astroturf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve, and I believe in long, slow, deep, soft, wet kisses that last three days.

Sorry...thought I was in the baseball thread and reverted to my best Crash Davis.

Wasn't it Annie Savoy who said that?

 

[Herb_The_Perb]

Big Governemnt cant die it will continue to take from the population. The example of the business was OK, but eventually it went under.
It costs to much for governements to do anything becasue of the buracracy, that is the reality.

And we certainly could dispense with the school system, since it seems so ineffective in teaching language skills.

 

[Herb_The_Perb]

As for Natives who crossed the Bearing Strait to get here, send them back too just to be fair.

It takes a lot of balls to cross the Bearing Strait.

 

[The Lizard King]

Wasn't it Annie Savoy who said that?

Nope...she was in the sack with Meat.

 

[dirtydan]

I am turning into Maverick73 hear, but I am curious as to what are the core "factors" that drive your political beliefs.

Mine are as follows

1) Fiscal Conservatism - Stop acting as though it is your money, it is our money. Tax cuts are always good, and I can do more with my money than you can.

Fiscal conservatism has proven itself to be a failure over and over again. The REAL way to go is fiscal responsibility.

2) Personal Responsibiliy - I will look after myself and my family thanks, help to build as society that encourages and depends on this. It will be a good thing.

To many times in the real world those claiming to be fiscal conservatives have proven themselves to be woefully irresponsible. No one will argue that individuals have to take responsibility for their own actions, however in this age of fiscal conservativism finger-pointing at individuals is merely trying to shift blame. Fact is a government must also be responsible to its people.

3) Nothing is ever the same for everyone. People will get better and worse service than me from a Restaurant, a store and a doctor, trying to pretend that a society (Canada,) can and will give equal health care / education to every one, is a fairy tail. Trying to do this creates a system that is only capable of providing equally bad health care for everyone. I am quite capable in working to ensure I get acceptable service.

Pure hogwash. Something that smacks out of the scriptures of one these right-wing extremist special interest groups:

A) The National Citizens Coalition
B) The Fraser Institute
C) The Canadian Taxpayers Federation
D) The Canadian Federation of Independent Business.

4) You cannot legislate common sense. Don't try.

Wrong again. If what you claim is true then absolutely never in the history of any government in any country has there ever been a good law.

5) You cannot legislate "morality" but you can legislate to encourage "morality" it is important to do so.

Yup, wrong again.

Take a close look at reality and you will find there are laws regarding morality and in the past there have been more laws regarding morality. Most of these laws enacted by those belonging to the conservative set.

6) Lots of politicians have radical personal agendas and ideas. Those who pretend they don't are lying (left and right). The reality is most of this crap doesn't matter.

What is radical? You're merely making a very vague statement, one that allows some one else to read practically anything into what you post. Furthermore left, right and center are very important to our politics. Without a semblance if idelogies successive governments then merely copy what the previous government did. Therefore change, especially progressive change, becomes far more difficult to achieve.

7) Abortion is not a good thing, and should not be encouraged, the right to have an abortion should not be celebrated. In probably 97.5% of cases it required becasue of a failure in many things (family, personal responsibility etc). If it were less conveneint the demand might be greater to take more responsibility.

That's crap. Abortion is between a woman and her doctor. Besides it was the blessed conservatives that kept abortions illegal for far too long and resulted in women going to back alley butchers. Added to that 7 does not compute with 5.

8) Criminals need to be both punished and rehabilitated, and there is nothing wrong with ensuring certain criminals cannot commit crimes again.

Vague. Why is that?

To some the concept of criminals being incapable of not committing crimes again means the death penalty. Be it for some or a wide array of crimes. To other people the concept leans towards rehabilitation to lead a criminal away from repeating future crimes. With that said care to state just where you stand?

9) Gun crime, drug crimes, other violent crime, and crimes against children, should have a maximum 2 strike rule.

Well why 2? Why not 1? To some people on the far right, you would come off as some weak-knee liberal who doesn't his ass from a hole in the ground.

To me any "strike" rule is just plain nuts. It counters any notion of rehabilitating a criminal.

10) Marriage is between a Man and Woman but before you freak out on me I think couples via civil union, and homosexual couples should have all of the "societal rights" spousal benefits, beneficiary benfits etc. As should certain "family" relationships, (like grown children living with parents, or siblings looking after each other). It is about commitment after all. And the word marriage has nothing to do with it.

Where in the world does anyone get the power to have a monopoly on the word marriage? A gay couple should have the same rights as a woman-man couple, including the privilege of calling their union a marriage.

11) Men and women are not the same, this doesn't mean they aren't equal, but a society that pretends they are is making due versus maximizing its potential.

All depends what differences you are referring to. Again you make very vague comments and it makes it difficult to figure out what the hell you're trying to say. You should go over your entire post a clarify pretty well everything you said.

 

[dirtydan]

Read about David Dignwall, Ad Scam, MPs Salaries, the senate, the Governer General, waste in the Armed Forces, continued feeding of funds to Quebec, the CBC, MAritimes Prop ups. 15 billion in EI there is plenty of money out there.

Where can one read about waste in the corporate sector? All we hear about is the same old tired crap about government waste. That is not to say there isn't any, but rather to point out the rhetoric is so one sided.

 

[Herb_The_Perb]

Nope...she was in the sack with Meat.

Who's Meat?
You mean Nuke la Loosh?

 

[LonelyGhost]

I would be happy to see no government at all ...

but while people still die at their jobs,
while businesses still believe that they 'provide jobs' rather than admit they make money off the people who work for them,
while people cannot accept responsibility for their own actions -- including getting drunk, getting knocked-up, getting into an accident while drunk etc -- while some people have to have it all while others have nothing:

we got government.

and unfortunately, one of the most expensive and least effective around.

that's what drives my politics.

 

[smackyo]

1. Democracy is all very well and fine, but the general population is either too stupid, too uncaring, not educated enough, and too naive to deserve to vote. And politicians are too corrupt for democracy to function as it should. In most cases, democracy does not serve the people well. It's better for society to have a benevolent dictatorship than a disfunctional democracy.

2. The market is a poor public policy tool. It is only good at valuing goods and services where there is demand flexibility for the product, such as what barbeque to buy. It is terrible as a tool to solve health care issues (where demand is inflexible). Remarkably, there are fools who believe the market can solve health care, military human resources, social security and other such issues.

3. Big government is not evil. Government is elected by the people to serve the people. Why is then that voters elect politicians to reduce government, which represents the voters? Does this not reduce the effectiveness of what government can do for the people?

4. Personal income taxation is not evil, it is benign. Many believe that taxation is evil. But taxation is merely the redistribution of income from one citizen to other citizens. It might only become evil if the politicians involved see fit to redistribute your income to private corporations.

5. Corporate taxation is stupid. Leftists typically want high taxes on the corporation, either as some form of punishment or to effect a public policy. It is stupid because the taxes are then passed onto the consumer or will kill the profitability of the corporation which will then kill the corporation. Corporate taxation is thus nothing more than a consumer tax.

6. Corporate sponsorship of politicians is corruption, pure and simple. No need to explain here. But how blatantly stupid can you get when the most powerful country on earth is so riddled with such a cancer. All politicians should have to publish all their financial ties and income. No politician should be allowed to run for office if they hold any stock, and should not be allowed to hold major positions or stock for 10 years after they leave office. A politician's goal should not be about his own personal wealth, and all such incentives should be removed.

7. All non-natives should leave North America right now. Whites should go back to Europe, Blacks to Africa, Asians to Asia. The human race needs to purify. Each color is beautiful. We should not become a race of mutts.

were you serious about #7? if so, WTF?

 

[sdw]

It always amazes me when I hear the downsize government/make them live inside their means mantra.

Government is/has been/always will be a method of keeping us civilized. That means redistributing the wealth to keep the poor complacent, building highways, building railroads, building communications networks and ensuring that natural resources are not just simply stripped out for the benefit of another nation.

We only have to look at the history of North America to know this. When the east coast of NA was first found by the Europeans, they stripped the forests, mined what easily found and had peers like Gore pleasure hunt the passenger pigeon and plains bison to extinction. Gore didn't eat or take trophies from what he killed and wouldn't even allow others to harvest what he didn't want.

For 100s of years, North America was where Europeans could behave badly because they couldn't back in their civilized homes.

Let's take a look at what the billions of dollars in disaster recovery from Katrina and Rita are giving us already. GM is reopening plants. GE is reopening plants. There are whole households and houses that have to be replaced. Those billions are going to lead to an employment boom. It's already started if you look at the job listings.

Let's look at what happened the few days when there was no civilization in New Orleans. Armed packs of young men and police looting whatever they wanted. Including rape of women. It was a return to the sack of a city in the dark ages. How much was "saved" by reducing the numbers of qualified police, firemen and disaster specialists? The reason NO had bad cops is the failure to spend money on wages and training before Katrina. The bad cops stayed, the good ones applied for jobs in Mesa and any other place that had standards. Michael Brown leading FEMA because it's not "cost effective" to actually have somebody that knows what they are doing in the position.

There are a great many problems with our system of politics. We get the politicians that we deserve because the decent, intelligent people who would do the job properly look at our desire to bring everyone down to the basest level and say "deal me out". As long as we elect people who are most willing to sell themselves to the Corporations, Unions and Special Interests; we will continue to be embarassed by what we have chosen to represent us.

 

[ace85]

No it was Crash Davis

Wasn't it Annie Savoy who said that?

Which explains why you are so off base in the Baseball Thread.

 

[ace85]

Fiscal conservatism has proven itself to be a failure over and over again. The REAL way to go is fiscal responsibility.





To many times in the real world those claiming to be fiscal conservatives have proven themselves to be woefully irresponsible. No one will argue that individuals have to take responsibility for their own actions, however in this age of fiscal conservativism finger-pointing at individuals is merely trying to shift blame. Fact is a government must also be responsible to its people.




Pure hogwash. Something that smacks out of the scriptures of one these right-wing extremist special interest groups:

A) The National Citizens Coalition
B) The Fraser Institute
C) The Canadian Taxpayers Federation
D) The Canadian Federation of Independent Business.



Wrong again. If what you claim is true then absolutely never in the history of any government in any country has there ever been a good law.





Yup, wrong again.

Take a close look at reality and you will find there are laws regarding morality and in the past there have been more laws regarding morality. Most of these laws enacted by those belonging to the conservative set.



What is radical? You're merely making a very vague statement, one that allows some one else to read practically anything into what you post. Furthermore left, right and center are very important to our politics. Without a semblance if idelogies successive governments then merely copy what the previous government did. Therefore change, especially progressive change, becomes far more difficult to achieve.

7) Abortion is not a good thing, and should not be encouraged, the right to have an abortion should not be celebrated. In probably 97.5% of cases it required becasue of a failure in many things (family, personal responsibility etc). If it were less conveneint the demand might be greater to take more responsibility.

That's crap. Abortion is between a woman and her doctor. Besides it was the blessed conservatives that kept abortions illegal for far too long and resulted in women going to back alley butchers. Added to that 7 does not compute with 5.




Vague. Why is that?

To some the concept of criminals being incapable of not committing crimes again means the death penalty. Be it for some or a wide array of crimes. To other people the concept leans towards rehabilitation to lead a criminal away from repeating future crimes. With that said care to state just where you stand?



Well why 2? Why not 1? To some people on the far right, you would come off as some weak-knee liberal who doesn't his ass from a hole in the ground.

To me any "strike" rule is just plain nuts. It counters any notion of rehabilitating a criminal.





Where in the world does anyone get the power to have a monopoly on the word marriage? A gay couple should have the same rights as a woman-man couple, including the privilege of calling their union a marriage.



All depends what differences you are referring to. Again you make very vague comments and it makes it difficult to figure out what the hell you're trying to say. You should go over your entire post a clarify pretty well everything you said.

Few things. Not in order.

I never said make abortion illeagal. You seem to want to put words in my mouth.

Gay women and gay men are entitled to get married. As long as they "marry" someone of the opposite sex.

Why don't you claim yours self to be a DOCTOR or a Lawyer or a Teacher or Professor? Because society accepts certain standards or qualifications in order to receive a certain title or designation. Again I never said anything that refused other "commitments" anything related to rights. They just don't meet the critera of being married. No different that you not being able to legally claim you are a woman. Why, becasue you are not.

2 Strikes. Gives 1 reasonable opportunity for rehabilitation. I really don't care about the right wings valuation of my position.

Why does abortion need to be between a woman and her doctor. That seems to be a weak argument. I would think in a lot of cases it should be between a girl and her family. And the doctor can provide the service. I never said it should be illegal.

In reality we all have the rights to free will. I have the right to hunt you down and kill you if I so chose. I also have the right to go to prison for committing that crime. My whole point is that abortion needs not to be celebrated as some wonderful thing and some wonderful "solution". I completely respect the fact that I can not tell some woman not to get an abortion. If she wants to I can't do anything about it. But really society should look at it as a complete last resort. Not a convenient solution to a problem.

5) You cannot legislate "morality" but you can legislate to encourage "morality" it is important to do so.

Where did I say anything about legislating morality. You are making giant leaps here.

Again this shows that just because the government might think it can it can't legislate anything to force to to practice any semblance of common sense.

Radical - Departing markedly from the usual or customary; extreme: radical opinions on education.

By nature radical opinions are very difficult to Legislate. Why becasue they are radical moron. Meaning they differ from consensus. Politician A and Politician B both have Radical Right Wing ideas for the Healthcare system. Between the 2 of them they are going to have a tough time finding common ground, let alone with the rest of the group who share less radical ideas. As a result it isn't a big deal and shouldn't be worried about.

Hogwash about nothing is exactly the same for everyone. For instance I understand the inner workings of the healt care system. Close friends are Doctors, Family Members are Nurses, family members hold admin positions.

Do you reallly think the health care system is the same for me. It isn't not becasue I am played as a favorite, but simply becasue I am educated as to how it works. Do you think some Doctor Son who is in a car accident and wheeled into his Dad's hospital is treated the same as a homeless guy, cmon.

What about a injured Police Officer verus an injured suspect. Are you drunk. It isn't the same for everyone, and it never will be. Acknoledging this and working from reality will result in better health care for everyone.


One final point is your desire to link Corporations and Government as the same thing.

If own stock in a company I can take issue with their waste, I have my rights as a stock holder. As a consumer I can chose not to support said corporation.

As a tax payer and citizen I have to take issue with government waste, otherwise I am not doing my job.

To compare the 2 is silly. Even if there is waste in the corporate sector (which there is) are you trying to justify government waste becasue of it. GREAT ARGUMENT. YOU are obviously all about progressive change.