P.S.E.'d Off in Edmonton!!!

[Bad Santa]

I began in this "hobby" back in the eighties, {there, now I've confirmed it for you, Bad Santa is a dirty old man}! That was when AIDS was killing people all over the place and we didn't even know what was causing it. That's when I gained a very healthy respect for SAFE SEX!

But what I see going on now in this business makes this the scariest time since then. According to Jaime Lane and other SP's in Vancouver, girls are being asked for BBFS and even BB greek at unprecedented numbers and apparently getting those services!

This all started with the demand for the "Porn Star Experience" and the BBBJ's that go along with it. Now it's graduating to CIM, BBFS and more!

Well guess what boys and girls. Porn Stars get tested regularly for disease before they can shoot scenes! This does not happen in the "Real World".

Now, so many travelling SP's and even many locals on CL are offering PSE's and BBBJ's and CIM's and with business being slow local MP providers are being pressured into this crazy shit!!

I think anyone who offers bare back BJ's or BBFS, BB greek or CIM services should be boycotted by clients, and any client who demands this crap should be blacklisted by SP's!

This is serious Shit!
Lives will be ruined!
People will die!

Wake up People!!!

 

[undefined]

There are still a number of STI's you or her can get with a BBBJ. AIDS isn't believed to be one of them, but gonorrhea, syphilis, and herpes are. It depends on whether both of you consider that risk worth it. It's safe in that most of what you can catch is curable and what isn't is generally not fatal, but there is still a risk of getting certain infections.

BBFS is a no go though. Given the number of men an SP can see, that's like playing Russian roulette with a loaded pistol.

 

[Bootsy]

The only people crazy enough for BBFS in this hobby are those who already have something or those who don't give a fuck...or both.

 

[lesster]

I give bad santa props for having a concern

 

[GPguy]

I COMPLETELY agree with Bad Santa...











bas Santa

 

[Snoopy99]

it's all about supply & demand;
bare back anything might be dangerous - but I'd agree with moneymaker, and I like BBBJ though I've never done BBFS... well... once I guess, but then I ran out to 7-eleven to get a few hats after a coupla thrusts. LOL.

To say that local SPs are pressured into anything is just akin to the labor market having foreign labor. I won't use the phrase "staying competitive" -
but there's always a balance somewhere.
You could still play safe and do CBJ - but you can't call it GFE or Safe GFE;
you don't use condoms with your girl friend on a BJ - if there's any bf that uses condom please raise your hand.

 

[Bad Santa]

Bad Santa, totally disagree. I've been around awhile also. I won't do bbfs but bbbj's. C'mon already. Bbbj's have been around
forever and everybody is doing them. The whole world would be dead. You think a safe is that safe. Even the best of safe's
rip, tear, slip off, whatever. Where have you been the last 20 years.

Moneymaker;
I have "been around" for the last 20 years and I know that only desperate or uninformed SP's provide bbbj's. All an SP has to have is a small cut in her mouth or bleeding gums from flossing and HIV or some other bug can pass between her blood into some small cut on your dick or from cum or precum into the cut in her mouth. An HIV positive person has large amounts of the virus in their blood or semen.

And as for beating a dead horse, Down Low, do you know how many millions of people have died or are suffering from AIDS and Hep C? I'll keep beating that dead horse like a drum until they find a cure!

 

[Snoopy99]

honestly I don't think I've regretted going BBFS... but that was only once and the SP (just so that we don't have a confusion that it was with a casual ONS or someone that I know) was just pristine...
perhaps I do regret that it was covered. LOL.
Back to the point at hand - if the objective of this post was to get pooners to stop asking SPs for a more "involved" service,
then I'd say that, well, to each her/his own.
As pooners we clearly know what we want and we go into these experiences with a pretty clear understanding of the risks involved.
If we test positive, then we do have a moral + social responsibility to find alternate avenues for release (or at least very very well protected).
But otherwise - please just bugger off and let the market forces find its own equilibrium. It's not like we're uneducated and not know what we're doing.

Hey - I smoke - you don't have to tell me that the risks for lung/nose/throat cancer is higher than the average joe.
The labels on the packaging is not a deterrent. I do what I like to do, and as long as I don't pose a health risk to others, then please let me be.
Sounds fair?

 

[wolverine]

Jim - you're slipping, old man! Time to bring out the picture again.

 

[jim]

Jim - you're slipping, old man! Time to bring out the picture again.

I was going to see if it would die on its own. Unfortunately not.

 

[Harmony-bc]

um, I have given covered blow jobs to boyfriends. I just would not give a blow job to someone I am not comfortable with yet, without a condom. Whether I am dating you in my personal life or being paid. I use condoms, for oral, and for sex. A girl friend is someone you talk to, cuddle with, play with and feel special with. It is intimate, close and fun.

You are very silly if you use the I never used a condom with my girl friend. You know your girlfriend. You know the sp for an hour or two. I have had bbfs service with a boyfriend or two. Maybe we should all not use condoms because we haven't with all lovers? Maybe we should all go back to life before A.I.D.S. Lets go back to the 1800's where nobody used condoms. Condoms were those weird french letters. Every time this conversation comes up, I just shake my head.

I have given a gfe experience without kissing or anything. Just because the experience was so tender. I have had sex with all the acronyms, that just felt like straight fucking because there was no connection. You can't put things as intimate as sex in a box.

I do not judge anybody doing anything. Have fun, do what your comfortable with.

I do know though that a lot of girls think they have to, to compete. That is simply not true. There are many guys that would not touch a girl that does bbbj. I think there are more men that don't care or like to play safe, then there are guys that want bbbj. Its just the men that want the bbbj's have the loudest voices. It is really not necassary to play with your health for a few bucks.

Also the quality of customer you have when you take chances with your health, is less. The men you attract when you play safe are all wonderful, great men.

I agree from a marketing point that safe gfe, pse, etc, have to have some kind of standard of what kind of service is offered in the package. However, you should also expect and realize that this is a human service and ymmv, should very much be taken into account !!

 

[jim]

Harmony,

Thank you for your thoughtful response. This issue tends to become an emotion fill mud sling a thon. You displayed that the discussion can be held at a much higher and intelligent level.

Bravo!

 

[Bad Santa]

Respect Yourselves & Each Other!

I know Jim, I'm beating the old dead horse again but this is about "respect".

Don't get me wrong. I am an old pooner and I love my hobby! But I have always treated every SP with respect! They have a very hard job trying to satisfy all of our demented requests!

"Respect" means keeping them and ourselves "Safe". If you demand and get bare back service from a provider, you show her absolute disrespect! You're showing her no more respect than you show a public urinal. And come to think of it, you're not showing yourself any respect either!

What do you guys think that you're immune or something? You think that only people in Africa or gay guys can catch this shit???

The fact that there is a syphilis epidemic raging in Edmonton is the warning sign that a lot of you out there have this attitude!

As I said before, I love this hobby but if a lot of people start getting sick from it, there's going to be a public backlash against it like we've never seen. Canada could go the way of Sweden where clients of the trade are thrown in jail and SP's are sent to "re-education" centers.

Is that where you want to go???

 

[Snoopy99]

um, I have given covered blow jobs to boyfriends. I just would not give a blow job to someone I am not comfortable with yet, without a condom. Whether I am dating you in my personal life or being paid. I use condoms, for oral, and for sex. A girl friend is someone you talk to, cuddle with, play with and feel special with. It is intimate, close and fun.

You are very silly if you use the I never used a condom with my girl friend. You know your girlfriend.

I think you hit the nail right on head when you say "A girl friend is someone you talk... is intimate, close and fun."
The definition of intimacy will vary - but ultimately it is a case of trust. And you're very correct in saying that you "would not give a BJ to someone you are not comfortable with YET".

Also the quality of customer you have when you take chances with your health, is less. The men you attract when you play safe are all wonderful, great men.

I beg to differ - your preconception is that customers will pass on STDs to you.
However, you should know that this is a 2 way street - both parties are at risk.
I'd hope that at this day and age, everyone is mature and professional - and have regular health checks.
As a customer, I ensure that I have a clean bill of health - and I would naturally assume that my SPs live up to the same, or even higher, standards.
I can't speak for everyone, because it'd take just 1 bad apple to screw up the trust.
Obviously, not everyone share the same commitment to safety, and safety is just a measure of statistics.
Please head over to the health board to check what's the % of transmission via BBBJ/69/DATY.

I agree from a marketing point that safe gfe, pse, etc, have to have some kind of standard of what kind of service is offered in the package. However, you should also expect and realize that this is a human service and ymmv, should very much be taken into account !!

For your own safety - I understand the necessity for YMMV argument, I don't agree to it.
And again - it's based on experiences and my personal experience has been that the SPs that I've met use that to execute an aloof service.

I know Jim, I'm beating the old dead horse again but this is about "respect".

Don't get me wrong. I am an old pooner and I love my hobby! But I have always treated every SP with respect! They have a very hard job trying to satisfy all of our demented requests!

"Respect" means keeping them and ourselves "Safe". If you demand and get bare back service from a provider, you show her absolute disrespect! You're showing her no more respect than you show a public urinal. And come to think of it, you're not showing yourself any respect either!

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, Bad Santa;
but to say that respect would mean getting everyone to do covered everything is just far-fetched.
Respect means a few things, it certainly includes safety, but safety and BBBJ is not mutually exclusive.
There are some STDs that can be passed on, even with the hat on - I'm sure you're well aware of that since you've pooned for more than 2 decades. I started late so I only have 1 decade. LOL.

What respect means to me:
1. there should be a mutually agreed level of service - there's absolutely no coercion and deception

2. there should be a maximum level of health concerns and by that I mean both parties should be CLEAN - ie free of STDs.

Note - if both parties are clean, then the question of condoms doesn't arise.
I wish they have instant tests that can vet both parties - and we can all rest this argument.

In closing - I don't think it's fair for you to ask everyone to forgo BBBJ - it's certainly your right - but I'd humbly disagree with your proposal.

 

[Snoopy99]

Sorry forgotten to mention - you raised the point of SPs "have a very hard job trying to satisfy all of our demented requests".
Mate, it's an occupational hazard.
I'm sure SPs get all kinds of requests and they have to fend off all the weird ones - but they are pros and they should know how to handle them.
And at the same time, being bombarded with crazy requests doesn't mean that they have to do it just to get the business.

As I've stated before - a SP should know what they are comfortable with and set their limits accordingly.
If you don't want to do it - DON'T.
But please don't try to change your customer's preferences - that's not your call to make.

 

[Harmony-bc]

I beg to differ - your preconception is that customers will pass on STDs to you.
However, you should know that this is a 2 way street - both parties are at risk.
I'd hope that at this day and age, everyone is mature and professional - and have regular health checks.
As a customer, I ensure that I have a clean bill of health - and I would naturally assume that my SPs live up to the same, or even higher, standards.
I can't speak for everyone, because it'd take just 1 bad apple to screw up the trust.
Obviously, not everyone share the same commitment to safety, and safety is just a measure of statistics.
Please head over to the health board to check what's the % of transmission via BBBJ/69/DATY.

I was not talking about stds. On all the ladies only boards, that I am on, the women with the most bad dates, are the ones that advertise the least restrictions. Std's are something you should assume everybody has and act accordingly. It is an unfortunate reality to sex with multiple partners.

For your own safety - I understand the necessity for YMMV argument, I don't agree to it.
And again - it's based on experiences and my personal experience has been that the SPs that I've met use that to execute an aloof service.

I understand based on your experiences. However I always stress everybody should expect ymmv. I have no bad reviews, and always give my all. I do not work when I am tired, grumpy, pmsing, etc. However, if you have a scratchy facial hair, or really long pubic hair, you will still get the same friendly cuddly service, you just might not get the same service as some one else (example only). How do you carbon copy sessions?

What respect means to me:
1. there should be a mutually agreed level of service - there's absolutely no coercion and deception

I 100% agree.

In closing - I don't think it's fair for you to ask everyone to forgo BBBJ - it's certainly your right - but I'd humbly disagree with your proposal.

I would never tell anybody how to have fun. Do what you want, as long as all people are consenting. Why would I care? However, there are a lot of ladies that provide certain activities, not because they enjoy them, but because they feel they need to compete.

 

[Bad Santa]

Please head over to the health board to check what's the % of transmission via BBBJ/69/DATY.....

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, Bad Santa;
but to say that respect would mean getting everyone to do covered everything is just far-fetched.
Respect means a few things, it certainly includes safety, but safety and BBBJ is not mutually exclusive.
There are some STDs that can be passed on, even with the hat on - I'm sure you're well aware of that since you've pooned for more than 2 decades. I started late so I only have 1 decade. LOL.

What respect means to me:
1. there should be a mutually agreed level of service - there's absolutely no coercion and deception

2. there should be a maximum level of health concerns and by that I mean both parties should be CLEAN - ie free of STDs.

Note - if both parties are clean, then the question of condoms doesn't arise.
I wish they have instant tests that can vet both parties - and we can all rest this argument.

In closing - I don't think it's fair for you to ask everyone to forgo BBBJ - it's certainly your right - but I'd humbly disagree with your proposal.

Snoopy99;

You've got a lot of good points and I'm not suggesting we wrap ourselves in plastic shrink wrap when we go pooning. You're right about the low risk of HIV transmission via BBBJ's, DATY and DFK.

That's because saliva has an enzyme in it that kills the virus. This is why lesbians have the lowest HIV infection rates of any sexually active group.

I confess, I have myself partaken of LFK, DFK and DATY with SP's. These are almost always safe. BBBJ's aren't quite as safe as now there is semen involved which increases the risk.

My other problem with BBBJ's is that many guys who get this service pressure the girls for CIM which ups the risk more, and if that's part of the deal, why not BBFS or BB greek where the risk is extreme!

If all you're doing is BBBJ's without the CIM you and the girl are probably reasonably safe but it's that slippery slope I'm worried about.

 

[Snoopy99]

I was not talking about stds. On all the ladies only boards, that I am on, the women with the most bad dates, are the ones that advertise the least restrictions. Std's are something you should assume everybody has and act accordingly. It is an unfortunate reality to sex with multiple partners.

Thank you Harmony for your candid thoughts;
I certainly don't think that my next partner has STDs - I sincerely hope not!!!
If she even appears to have any issues, I would pay a token, plead a splitting headache, and walk away!

And I do understand the restrictions and the YMMV part - you see posters grumbling about restrictions yada yada yada.
If the ground rules were laid out, then there's nothing to quibble about.
If you do get an extra - well - nice surprise - and the review would reflect that.

Incidentally - I see a flood of CL ads that offer CIM, very very open-minded...
just IMHO, they might not understand that it meant trips to the Greek islands or bare back anything.
That's just marketing - so if anyone has TOFFT please let us know~

If I might share other thoughts -
I've stopped going to MPs because mostly, the girls come in, negotiates the rates, then vanish off for more than 15mins.
They won't take a shower with you (yes dear, if you've had a number of clients, the washings will strip more body oils... it's all part of the job... )
And the biggest restriction of them all - no MSOG.
A lot of new SPs think it's easy money - and it is - <to clarify - the easy money portion refers strictly to SPs who think it's a shoot n go op> but if one were to treat it as a profession, then one has to be "professional".
Like everyone else, we have to slog to make money.
And all of us have our own area of occupational hazards, and I'd say - deal with it, positively.

Harmony, I appreciate that you and Santa have raised a valid health concern, and providing valid inputs to better the industry for the long run.
Cheers!

 

[Snoopy99]

Thanks Santa~

I generally don't go for LFK/DFK because I smoke and my breath stinks - there's all the mouth wash and mint that I do take, but I'm just self-conscious.
the pre-cum... well... can't help that LOL
There are risks, and we have to continuously assess the situation and determine whether it's a go or no-go.
And I think SPs face a harder task of screening. But well - they're much better paid than I am, so that's the return to risk ratio!