Outcall Only SPs

chuck1561

Banned
Oct 19, 2002
1,505
1
0
65
Victoria
BobbiVan said:
I agree with you too.. I only provide outcalls for most of the same reasons you do. I think it's funny how guys will keep asking as if somehow, ovrenight, out situations had changed.

What I keep saying to those who still need incall is this..

Ok, rent me a house, fill it with furniture, give me the keys; I'll meet you there! ;)
not sure why you ladies seem to be condeming pooners who want incall..if you don't want to provide the service FINE..but don't condem us for a service that we require..don't find that respectful at all..there are lots of fine sp's who do not seem to have the concerns you do and provide incall service..guess you're insulting them as well :rolleyes:
 

Lolita

Banned
Dec 12, 2002
371
0
0
I don't see incalls getting busted, unless you have something for the neighbours to complain about. Police presence is all complaint driven.

Here's another thing to consider NOT doing outcall, unless hotel. Cameras and other recording devices. One too many friends have been secretely caught on tape and found out months later their asses on the net and them not getting a penny, or giving consent for that matter.
 

BobbiVan

Busty Bobbi
Jun 14, 2004
488
0
18
44
Fraser Valley
I wasn't condemning anyone. There are a couple guys who keep pursuing me about getting an incall service after I've already told them why I can't.... Honestly.. I have no problems with those who need/provide incall locations. I just can't do it myself. That's all.
 

Penhold

Member
Feb 8, 2004
472
0
16
B.C.
Common Bawdy House

The police will not worry about independent SPs who provide incall services at their place unless they receive a lot of complaints from neighbours. Even then, at most what they will do is harass the SP to try to get her to quit and/or move.

For a successful prosecution, the police must have evidence that prostitution is taking place within the premises. Unless the SP or a client admit that sexual services were exchanged for monetary or other consideration, a prosecution is not likely to succeed.

However, if the SP books an undercover policeman and sexual services for a fee are discussed then the police may have the evidence they need for a charge and conviction. This, however, is little different from a police sting using outcall services.

Unless she offers services to an undercover policeman, an SP who offers discrete incall on her own at her own place, to no more than a couple of clients a day, and who ends her evening before 10 pm runs almost zero risk of ever being investigated, let alone charged or convicted.

Quite frankly, unless the police receive a lot of complaints they won't do anything about an SP working on her own and offering discrete incall services because they don't have the budget or manpower to worry about them.

If a number of girls share an apartment such that it results in a steady stream of men 24/7, especially if some of them are intoxicated, rude or otherwise obnoxious, neighbours will likely start to complain and at some point it is the neighbours who will try to get the police involved. Not necessarily because they object to what is going on, but more because of the increased traffic and an unwillingness to put up with obnoxious people in the wee hours of the morning.

As to streetwalkers and microbrothels, they attract police attention because they result in significant and vocal complaints from neighbours. For example, street girls on Kingsway receive a lot of attention because of major complaints of neighbours and because there was an abundance of needles and condoms showed up in residential areas and school zones. In the case of microbrothels, the police are also reacting to their belief that organized crime and illegal immigrants might be involved (which tends to get them additional funding and resources from other government departments to investigate these locations).

When SPs who are discrete and provide incall services at their own place during reasonable hours begin to be hassled by the police, you can bet your bottom dollar that the police will have already targetted SPs doing outcall. There are several simple reasons why outcall is riskier to an SP than incall - and they all go to the logistics of gathering evidence and ensuring police safety. If a policeman goes to an incall, unless he is "wired" the evidence will basically be his word against hers. All she has to do is ensure he strips naked in the bathroom and then comes out and meets her in another room. Unless the police obtained prior authorization to bug the incall location, then the only concern the SP has to worry about is if the policeman has a camera or microphone shoved up his penis or ass. The police are also reluctant to do this because if the door is locked and the SP takes turn towards violence the police backup can't get there in time.

Outcall, however, is easy and lazy police work. Get a suite or hotel room, preferably with an adjacent suite connected by doors, install a few cameras and microphones, and then "let your fingers do the walking". Just phone up the SPs, have them come over, get the evidence on tape, have the police in the adjacent room come in to make the arrest and wait for the next one to show up.

Hell, if they're efficient they can have the girls booked in half-hour increments. Cost-effective policing. :D

Oh yes - an SP on outcall can ask the client all she wants whether he's a policeman and he can deny it until the cows come hom. Nevertheless, he'll still get a conviction if he gets the evidence.

Isn't Canada wonderful? :D :D
 

chuck1561

Banned
Oct 19, 2002
1,505
1
0
65
Victoria
BobbiVan said:
I wasn't condemning anyone. There are a couple guys who keep pursuing me about getting an incall service after I've already told them why I can't.... Honestly.. I have no problems with those who need/provide incall locations. I just can't do it myself. That's all.

honestly wasn't trying to aim anythign at you bobbi..but the others who are, as far as I see it, throwing the law in other's face and or saying how law abiding one is..well that basically insults those who are not following that course IMHO

Oh yes - an SP on outcall can ask the client all she wants whether he's a policeman and he can deny it until the cows come hom. Nevertheless, he'll still get a conviction if he gets the evidence.
ummm evidence of what..public solicitation as far as I understand is all that is illegal ..not doing the outcall itself or what goes on behind closed doors..so if the appt was made in a private scenario etc..then police would also be wasting their time..because a sp always says he pays for my time..if she chooses to do more that is between two consenting adults kind of thing..
 

Big_Al500

"Four legs bad"
Sep 7, 2004
350
0
0
personal choice, these ladies have theirs we have ours and or fear of incarceration is enough to drive anyone out of the business in or outcall. Either way it boils down to choice and I choose incall.
 

Jodie

B.Bj, M.Sog, Fs.D
Mar 14, 2004
661
5
0
Vancouver, BC
www.vancouverjodie.com
chuck1561 said:
not sure why you ladies seem to be condeming pooners who want incall..if you don't want to provide the service FINE..but don't condem us for a service that we require..don't find that respectful at all..there are lots of fine sp's who do not seem to have the concerns you do and provide incall service..guess you're insulting them as well :rolleyes:
Nobody is condemning or insulting anybody (for once :)). I do not, by any means, disrespect gentlemen who choose to partake in incalls, nor the SPs who offer them. In fact, I have nothing but respect for the girls who can run a safe and profitable incall business, because I personally don't feel that I can.

My intention in starting this thread was merely to provide an explanation as to why some of us choose to offer outcalls only. It is a question that gets asked of me on a very regular basis, and rather than replying to two to five e-mails per day explaining that I do not offer incalls, I thought I would try posting it here as a permanent point of reference.

With regards to all the references (especially mine) to incall being illegal, I think my original message has been misconstrued. Allow me to explain further: I don't really care if incall is illegal, outcall is legal, etc. from a moral standpoint. When I say I don't offer incall because it is illegal, I do not mean that I am morally above offering an activity that is construed as illegal, and that offering outcall only makes me a better person somehow. In fact, if you re-read my original post, I believe my reason for remaining within the word of the law is quite clear: If and when the LE decide to crack down on independents (and it really is only a matter of time given how they have already cracked down on SWs, Strip Clubs, MPs and Micros), I don't want to be on their hit list. No morality and no condemnation there... just me looking out for number one ;)

And correct me if I'm wrong, but I think BC Visitor was just being facetious when he stated that I only offer outcall because I am such a law abiding citizen.

My main reasons for offering outcall only are safety and financially related. The whole legality issue is just a semantic technicality, really.

Note to self: try to be less controversial in 2005.
 
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chuck1561

Banned
Oct 19, 2002
1,505
1
0
65
Victoria
Jodie said:

And correct me if I'm wrong, but I think BC Visitor was just being facetious when he stated that I only offer outcall because I am such a law abiding citizen.

My main reasons for offering outcall only are safety and financially related. The whole legality issue is just a semantic technicality, really.

Note to self: try to be less controversial in 2005.
well since we or I don't know BC Visitor it would be hard to judge what was meant. sorry if I came across the wrong way to you Jodie..you are a SP that is Very Well Worth seeing ..and luckily if I was on a visit to Van then it would be an outcall anyway , that is if you don't want to spank me now..lol .hey that may not be too bad..I do respect your choice for the type of svc you provide..and I do think that you are a wonderful Lady :p and don't stop being Fiesty..I like that about you..lol ;)
 

Swguy

Single White Member
Apr 26, 2003
1,339
0
36
Diagon Alley
www.freeones.ca
Jodie said:
Note to self: try to be less controversial in 2005.
Yeah, right... ;)

You wouldn't be you and wouldn't be as much fun if you weren't so "controversial"...


:D

SWG

Edited for your grammatical safety...
 
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BC visitor

Member
May 2, 2004
235
0
16
Blue guy in red state
First I want to apologize to anyone I offended about the legal issue. It was not my intent to condemn you in any way.

My point is the ethical issue. Some people don't like to break the law. Simple point. Then to have people repeatedly ask them to do so I would think might start to get their dander up. Also worries of LE.

Jodie stated for her it is not an issue of legality but rather enforcement, but for others it might be.

Think of an SP who is paying her way through law school by doing outcall. Then she becomes a prosecutor and needs to enforce the law. Knowing she did not break the law in her past might be very important to her.

I personally like the idea of an ethical SP. I think this would carry over in other ways, like arriving on time, working hard to make the client happy, call as soon as possible if something comes up delaying her or forcing her to cancel and then working to make it right for her client.

Personally again, I HATE it when a SP is late. My personal pet peeve. If she calls and says she will be 10 minutes late, I really appreciate it.
 

steverino

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2004
1,613
1,167
113
SP websites in more LE involved communities note that payment is for time spent only and that anything else that may occur is purely consentual and not part of the fee. When clients arrive no discussion of sex for money takes place rather an envelope is placed on a table and away you go. If any discussion takes place about money exchanging hands, which it usually does not, for additional services, it is the client who is expected to initiate that conversation.
 

Sunset

Guest
Aug 10, 2004
348
1
0
Brisbane
Being controversial is one thing and being mean spirited is another.

What's the ole saying? You catch more bees with honey.
 

Lolita

Banned
Dec 12, 2002
371
0
0
With ads in the paper and websites selling ass for an obvious purpose, LE would've been involved and cracked down on incall independents a long time ago. Nothing to worry about incall.

Happy Holidays!
 
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Sydney

Professional Paramour
The choice to do incall only, outcall only or both is a personal choice and business choice for each lady.

Personally, (and it has alot to do with the city I live in) I offer incalls mostly (outcalls on occasion). I prefer to work days.
I rarely work nights, and evenings only occasionally. My clientele is mostly comprised of local men requiring daytime or early evening sessions. That is what I enjoy and it seems I have attracted those that enjoy it also.
Incall is most convenient for them as well as for myself.

Coming from an amp, setting up an incall location was the surest way for me to get business going and to retain the many regulars I have.

Without my incall location, I would not keep as busy.
Compare 3-4 calls/week for outcalls versus 5-6 calls/day for incalls. Of course the amount of clients I do see each day varies. And the above mentioned numbers only represents the calls I get for each. The point is, I would not be as busy doing only outcalls.
However, it is something I have considered doing in the future, when it is no longer a full time commitment.

In a bigger centre where there are more business visitors, and more people period, I can see how outcall only would work.

The amount I pay on rent, advertising, laundry and the MANY other costs of doing business is about equal to the fees I used to pay the mp where I worked.
Imagine, renting my own place, having a ball decorating and it all used to go to 'them'.
My lingerie budget went way up tho. ;)

To each their own and vive la difference!

Sydney
 

Penhold

Member
Feb 8, 2004
472
0
16
B.C.
Lolita said:
With ads in the paper and websites selling ass for an obvious purpose, LE would've been involved and cracked down on incall independents a long time ago. Nothing to worry about incall.

Happy Holidays!
Bang on!!! By that I mean I agree with you, not "bang on" as in continue pooning. :)

Back to the original subject of the thread. Why does anyone have any problem with leaving it up to an SP to do whatever she feels comfortable with? If she doesn't want to provide incall or doesn't want to provide outcall, then it should be her decision and her decision alone. No explanation is necessary and she doesn't have to justify her choice to anyone. Everyone should simply respect her choice.

Similarly, SPs should and do have the right to decide who to see and when to see them - this is a very, very personal business after all. If an SP doesn't feel comfortable for whatever reason she should be able to politely decline and the pooner should simply accept this and move on. Pushing an SP to see you when she's not comfortable with you usually means a disappointing session. Trying to persuade an SP to take your hard-earned money and go ahead with a session when you have little chance of being satisfied with the experience doesn't make sense when there's so many other SPs out there.
 

Lolita

Banned
Dec 12, 2002
371
0
0
Okay, without hopefully offending you, Jodie, and other outcall only SPs. I was not trying to defend incall only SPs but figured it would be helpful to throw a wrench in some of your points. It's your decision. You're part-time, that's all.

BUT

if we're going to get at the legalities, it is my understanding (by that I mean I spoke to and, had as clients, several lawyers and even members of vice) that outcalls are legal, but only if you have a license.

even stickier

the license will NOT hold up in court if you were an independent but working for a licensed agnecy. And licensed agencies can ONLY provide outcall services.
All this, of course, if LE gets around to busting an SP for what ever reason.


Folks, I don't mean to stir the pot here, it's a municipal issue (legal outcall services/liscense) but well worth the time to point out.
 
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Sunset

Guest
Aug 10, 2004
348
1
0
Brisbane
If an SP doesn't feel comfortable for whatever reason she should be able to politely decline and the pooner should simply accept this and move on. Pushing an SP to see you when she's not comfortable with you usually means a disappointing session. Trying to persuade an SP to take your hard-earned money and go ahead with a session when you have little chance of being satisfied with the experience doesn't make sense when there's so many other SPs out there.
Penhold,

I agree with you 100 percent.

Once an SP displays defensive or negative behavior towards you, it's time to decline and move on. Chances of a satisfying experience is slim to none.

As me Scottish Grandma would say " A Wiseman will take heed while a fool will continue his way."


Kindness in words creates confidence, kindness in thinking creates profoundness and kindness in giving creates love..L. Tzu
 

farked2

New member
Nov 17, 2004
15
0
0
In response to Penhold's analysis, I don't believe outcalls can be as targeted by police as he suggests. Nothing in the Criminal Code suggests that outcalls are illegal as long as the transaction is not communicated in a public medium. So if you make arrangements over the phone or via private e-mail, you're probably fine.

I'm not sure how a judge might rule on using the Internet to communicate the business of prosititution, which is prohibited "in any place open to public view" under Section 213(1) of the Criminal Code.

I wonder why the police haven't busted a posting board like this for so long. I mean, there are so many perberts who overtly request SPs and SPs who advertise their rates..

Stirring the pot some more,
An aspiring lawyer
 

farked2

New member
Nov 17, 2004
15
0
0
Good point, but I'd like to point out that there are varying levels of "legal."

While breaking a municipal bylaw might earn you a fine, breaking the Criminal Code could land you in jail.

There's a big difference between the two. You're right, if you get caught breaking the licensing law, you'd be breaking the law but you wouldn't be going to jail for doing outcall.

farked2



Lolita said:
Okay, without hopefully offending you, Jodie, and other outcall only SPs. I was not trying to defend incall only SPs but figured it would be helpful to throw a wrench in some of your points. It's your decision. You're part-time, that's all.

BUT

if we're going to get at the legalities, it is my understanding (by that I mean I spoke to and, had as clients, several lawyers and even members of vice) that outcalls are legal, but only if you have a license.

even stickier

the license will NOT hold up in court if you were an independent but working for a licensed agnecy. And licensed agencies can ONLY provide outcall services.
All this, of course, if LE gets around to busting an SP for what ever reason.


Folks, I don't mean to stir the pot here, it's a municipal issue (legal outcall services/liscense) but well worth the time to point out.
 

farked2

New member
Nov 17, 2004
15
0
0
BC Visitor, since you brought up the subject, I felt I might as well say a thing or two about ethics.

For people that go out to have sex with SPs or SPs that accept money for sex, I find it amusing that a discussion of ethics would arise here. Cheating on your wife and having sex with a young attractive girl in need of money isn't exactly "ethical." Having sex with a portly middle-aged social-moron just so that you can make ends meet might make good business sense but I have difficulty accepting that as "good ethics."

Let's face it folks, this business is all about exploitation. Those that have money to pay for sexual services and those that are in need of money so that they offer sexual services.

So I don't find the argument of not wanting to breaking the law on ethical grounds very convincing. Most of us would like to not break the law, so that we stay out of jail...

If I were perfect, I wouldn't be here either. I do, however, have some sense of normal perspective in that I've never actually used the services of an SP.

Now I'll bet that I'm not the only one either. I'm sure there are others like me who simply come here for entertainment or to look through the posts (which sometimes can be rather humorous and intelligent).

I should further note that I am not trying to pass judgement on anyone's lifestyle here. It's about supply-and-demand, and if I were female, I'd seriously considering doing this to pay some of my bills. But I find it ridiculous that we're even talking about prostitution and being ethical in the same breath.

(I wonder how much hate mail I'll get for this...)
 
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