November 11

[littlejimbigher]

With November 11 being tomorrow I've been trying to understand Canadas role in WW1.
WW2 is simple. The Nazis were evil.
But WW1 is still confusing me. A Serbian national asassinates the Archduke Ferdinand of the Austo-Hungarian empire. Austria demands Serbia turns him over to them and after the refusal to do so , invades Serbia. Britain, France and Russia demand Austria leaves and then declare war. Germany joins Austria and WW1 starts.

(Sounds similar to what the US has done recently and has been denounced for.)

But why do we still state that it was a good war for us to be in.
All the old statements about fighting "the Huns" sound racist in todays terms.

Anyone got any explanations for me. Thanks.

 

[uncleg]

With November 11 being tomorrow I've been trying to understand Canadas role in WW1.
WW2 is simple. The Nazis were evil.


But why do we still state that it was a good war for us to be in.
All the old statements about fighting "the Huns" sound racist in todays terms.

Anyone got any explanations for me. Thanks.

Canada's role was to provide cannonfodder for the British Army. Canada was a Dominion of Britain and as soon as the British declared war Canada was involved.

Why was it a "good" war ? It showed that Canadian troops were the match of the British and then some. It also led to the first stand alone Canadian Divisions in a theatre of war. End result was that when it was all over, Canada was able to finally establish total independence from British rule.

As to WW2, the reasons weren't quite that simple.

Want a better feel for what it's all about ? Go to one of the Reserve Armouries around the City after the ceremonies are over at the Ceneotaph. The various units have get togethers, where you can meet some of the vets. Also, there will be a lot of guys there that have just got home from Afganistan, particularly at the Infantry and Armoured units.

 

[littlejimbigher]

I just finished reading a book last month published in 1918 written by the US ambassador to Germany. The book stops when the US joins the war and he was withdrawn. Quite intresting because it gives the views of the time. The ambassador said that at royal functions that he attended the Crown Prince of Germany told him that if his dad (the Emperor) didn't attack France before he died that he (crown prince) would after he died.

He expected that they would sweep thru France like the Franco-Prussian war in 1870 and anex 2/3 of France to Germany with the last 1/3 a German protctorate.

Kind of reminded me of the US civil war where both sides thought they would win fast.

 

[uncleg]

An addition to earlier post, when they open the mess, the beer is really cheap compared to street pricing.

 

[littlejimbigher]

The Austrian PM was assinated as well.
The Czar of Russia and his family were put to death as well.
Tensions between the UK and Germany were very high as stated.
There were many reasons and events.

But still today,Canada fighting in WW1 is looked to be a good thing.
Did the English and Germans hate each other that much before the war as after?

Even the Napoleonic wars I can see the good in the fighting because Napoleon was a dictator taking over all of Europe.

 

[Thatotherguy]

But still today,Canada fighting in WW1 is looked to be a good thing.
Did the English and Germans hate each other that much before the war as after?

Even the Napoleonic wars I can see the good in the fighting because Napoleon was a dictator taking over all of Europe.

WW1 happened largely because Germany wanted it to happen. The other European powers knew that Germany wanted war, and they were all too happy to oblige.

Canadians fighting in WW1 is largely looked upon as a good thing because of the impression that it was a war of defense fought against an evil imperialistic aggressor who was looking to take over the world. In many ways that impression is accurate, but there are a couple of problems with it:
-the Germans of WW1 were no more evil than the French or the English.
-the rest of Europe was itching for a war too.

 

[Ray]

It was a territorial war, but because of alliances between various nations, everyone else got drawn into it.

The results of WW 1:

The Treaty of Versailles was a direct contributor to WW 2.
The collapse of the Russian Tsar and the rise of communism and the expansionist Soviet Union.
The collapse of the Ottoman Empire, and the rush by the victors of WW1 to fill the power vacuum, leading to the present chaotic Middle East.
(All the borders of the current Middle East were drawn up by Europeans after WW1).

 

[Thatotherguy]

It was a territorial war, but because of alliances between various nations, everyone else got drawn into it.

The results of WW 1:

The Treaty of Versailles was a direct contributor to WW 2.
The collapse of the Russian Tsar and the rise of communism and the expansionist Soviet Union.
The collapse of the Ottoman Empire, and the rush by the victors of WW1 to fill the power vacuum, leading to the present chaotic Middle East.
(All the borders of the current Middle East were drawn up by Europeans after WW1).

You also left out:
The rise of Sinn Fein and the IRA.
Chemical warfare emerges.
An influenza pandemic that would kill 40-100 million worldwide.

Of course, if we're looking for historical causes of all of these things, you could say that it's the Franco-Prussian War, since you could easily argue that WW1 was the direct result of the Franco-Prussian War. And then, you could equally say that the cause of all of these things is the Napoleonic Wars, since you could easily argue that the Franco-Prussian War was the direct result of the Napoleonic Wars... And so on, and so on, and so on...

 

[kafka555]

The specific cause of the UK (and Canada) entering WWI was that Germany invaded neutral Belgium in aid of implementing the Schlieffen Plan to invade France. The UK had guaranteed Belgium's neutrality. As well, the German occupying forces were accused of atrocities against Belgian civilians.

There was considerable dissention in the British government at the time, and declaration of war was certainly not automatic, and came only after days of debate in the Asquith cabinet.

Of course, at the time, the UK cabinet controlled Canada's foreign policy. Canada gained de facto control over its foreign policy from about 1918, but didn't gain it legally until the Statute of Westminster in 1931.

I would say that in WWI, the Germans didn't have to invade France and Belgium, therefore they were the aggressors in Western Europe.

Plenty of cannon-fodder from all countries to go around.

 

[jgunn41]

Cannon Fodder

All the Imperial nations lost the cream of their young men and women.

I am an Australian and in June I visited your county's War Memorial at Vimy in Northern France. It is a remarkable restoration of the actual trenches your soldiers fought and died in during that terrible war. It brings grown people to tears to reflect on why so many died so far from their homes in a cause that had nothing to do with their respective countries.

The following poem says it all

In Flanders’ Fields

"In Flanders’ Fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.
We are the dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved, and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders’ Fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow

Oh! You who sleep in Flanders’ fields,
Sleep sweet – to rise anew;
We caught the torch you threw;
And holding high we kept
The faith with those who died.
We cherish, too, the Poppy red
That grows on fields where valour led.
It seems to signal to the skies
That blood of heroes never dies,
But lends a lustre to the red
Of the flower that blooms above the dead
In Flanders’ Fields.

And now the torch and poppy red
Wear in honour of our dead
Fear not that ye have died for naught
We’ve learned the lesson that ye taught
In Flanders’ Fields."


This was penned by John McCrae, a Canadian medico at Ypres who was previously Professor of Medicine at McGill University before WW1 .

 

[Thatotherguy]

This was penned by John McCrae, a Canadian medico at Ypres who was previously Professor of Medicine at McGill University before WW1 .

Thank you! I've been trying to remember his name for days! Of course, I suppose I could have googled it, but that just reeks of effort.