No Class!!!

[massageseeker]

You are barking up the wrong tree - compasion for human being ? I am not going to argue with you - you just dont get it ..

I think the poor and everyone that needs help should be taken care of.. but if money is mismanaged noone does well. If you dont have an economy you cant pay for social services..

Worst off is , if you promise these people help to get elected and turn your back on them b/c you over spent on silly things you have a lack of compassion ..

NDP Finance Minister Paul Ramsey admitted they had made no provision for paying for all of the spending commitments they made in the run-up to the 2001 election. On Page 95 of the 2001 Budget Report: “Fully funding all these pressures would not be possible given the forecast increase in revenue."

 

[Cock Throppled]

Speaking of NDP boondoggles how about the Millenium Line...it runs through an area with little population...cut off on one side by the freeway and on the other just a narrow strip between Lougheed and Hastings...but it did run through about 5 NDP ridings at the time it was built....at a cost of over 3 billion...money that with its low ridership numbers our kids will be paying for it for decades to come...oh and the purchase of Skeena Cellulose which Glen Clark bragged was a great deal for the people of British Columbia. If it hasnt gone bankrupt its teetering on the edge...thanks Glen.

Don't worry - the Liberals will have the RAV to answer for. That should dwarf most of the NDP money wasters. Any government that lets ideaology determine its decisions is a bad government, IMHO. The hatred Gordo has for anything remotely socialist has coloured his decisions and hurt the most vulnerable. All the Gordo blowers, I hope you don't have to go to a hospital in the near future, find care for an elderly parent, need legal aid, get involved in a crime where a crown prosecutor tries to get justice for you, try to get help in a priovincial park, or wait to access government services. As for those wanting more people kicked off welfare - why do you think the crime rate is so high now?

 

[David in Van]

Money Wasted

so you consider helping the poor, the sick, the disabled, the elderly to be nothing but a 'sucking waste'?

That's the attitude that the Liberal gov't has had for four years and is abhorrent to anyone with a conscience or a soul.

No, if you would have read the whole comment, instead of just picking the phrase that suited your own personal agenda, you would have seen that I was saying:

1.
If we don't take care of our economy first, we will not be able to take care of luxeries.
2.
Yes, I admit that I consider taking care of the poor a luxery.
3.
That does not mean that I won't take care of the poor. It just means that the economy is a higher priority, because without the economy, we cannot afford to feed ourselves let alone take care of the poor.
4.
Regarding the waste, since nearly everything that the government touches involves varying amounts of waste, and since the government touches the poor more than it touches the rich (I don't get money from the government, I pay), then it follows that most money wasted involves the poor. I do not mean the giving money to the poor involves waste.

Further, I write cheques to the government in excess of a quarter a million dollars a year to the government, much of it to help the poor.

Given that many people, instead of expressing gratitude and appreciation for my contribution, tell me that I am hurting the poor and am a cheap bastard, I tend to get a little pissed off.

It makes me seriously think about taking my gratitude elsewhere where the taxes are lower. Then what would the NDP do to replace my quarter million plus per year?

Most Canadians don't realize that the Americans, on a per capita basis, pay more tax than Canadians. Even though their tax rates are lower, they are far richer, largely because of lower taxes and a more market friendly government.

 

[David in Van]

massageseeker,

but why oh why oh why is it so difficult for people who are better off in terms of health and wealth to show one bit of compassion for those who are not? and to step up and pay their fair share?

I pay over 50% of my income to the government. You think that I am not paying my fair share?

What percent do you pay?

 

[GoWest]

but why oh why oh why is it so difficult for people who are better off in terms of health and wealth to show one bit of compassion for those who are not? and to step up and pay their fair share?
...
I am just constantly amazed at the lack of compassion you guys have for other human beings ... it is disgusting.

And what is their fair share? Complain about our political system if you want, but our elected government decides what the fair share should be. The Liberals won, and that means more people probably believe that the fair share should be lower rather than higher. Deal with it.

One may believe that each individual should be paying more into social services. You know what, if someone believes that, they can, by donating to any number of charitable organizations. That is what I do. You get a tax break on the donation, plus you get to pick the organization, thereby sending the money to the area of your choice.

I might sound like a right wing prick here, but I don't think that I am. I've voted NDP, Social Credit, and Liberal in the past. I'm not rich, just your average middle income guy, struggling to make ends meet. I'm just tired of some people believing that they have a right to get something for nothing. At least the indivduals who are paying taxes are contibuting something to others. The individuals who take more than give? Yeah I know, some of those individuals need help, but, well, maybe some of the others in that group should try harder to pay their fair share too.

 

[David in Van]

. All the Gordo blowers, I hope you don't have to go to a hospital in the near future, find care for an elderly parent, need legal aid, get involved in a crime where a crown prosecutor tries to get justice for you, QUOTE]

Legal aid is an example of waisted money and the government attitude of measuring performance by how much money they throw at something.

The goverment would be better off subsidizing a real lawyer that the client chooses, not some bueracrat.

Regarding hospital stays, I am dissapointed that Canadians don't realize that socialized medicine does not work. Socialized medicine = rationed medicine.

The Canadian medical system isn't too bad, but if it was important and I was in a hurry, I would be going to the nearest American hospital.

No matter what the government does, they will never get rid of two tier medicine until foreign travel is banned (the USSR tried that and China practices it for all but the privileged).

Meanwhile, our medical system will continue to get worse no matter which government is in and how much money is thrown at it and no matter what "little adjustments" are made to socialized medicine.

 

[massageseeker]

I here ya.. I pay 40,000 in taxes each year.. thats only income tax ..probably another 10 K on that .....

I took a huge risk to do what I do, and if the incentive is not strong enough for our kids to do the same... you will have a messed up society ..

 

[sirlickheralot]

massageseeker,

and why do companies need to be paid to hire someone ... wouldn't it be cheaper to just pay the guy who needs the job to stay home instead of spending millions and millions to create a few lousy low paying, no benefit jobs?

Actually wage subsidy programs are beneficial for everyone involved. The companies who take advantage of this program save money on wages. Since the companies still pay part of the wages the subsidies cost less than supporting someone on welfare so tax payers benefit. Finally the person who gets the job, benefits from getting work experience that they can use to get better jobs in the future.

Studies have shown that the longer someone stays on welfare programs the less employable they become. So unless you like the idea of supporting someone for the rest of their life, paying employable people just to stay home is a terrible idea. Unless someone has a severe mental or physical handicap the objective should be to get people off welfare and into jobs even if it means that you have to temporarily subsidize their wages.

Many times simple handouts to the poor aren't doing them any favours. Like the saying goes give a man a fish he eats for a day, teach a man to fish he eats for a lifetime.

 

[mustangjoe]

. All the Gordo blowers, I hope you don't need legal aid,

I'd say a good chunk of Gordo blowers are in a high tax bracket. That means we don't qualify for legal aid anyways.

 

[mustangjoe]

raised the 'homeowner grant' for expensive houses when they could have done away with the property transer tax for low-income people.

yup, these fuckers are REALLY good to us ...

First time buyers don't pay the PTT on homes less then 250k. Good enough for me.

And raising the homeowner grant was designed to help people in need, not give a brek to the wealthy. There are tons of modest retired people who bought there houses 40+ years ago for 50g. With ever so increasing RE prices, how are they suppose to keep up with the taxes? Sell the house?

For a elderly person who bought a house in Kits for 50g many years ago, it means nothing to them that the house is now worth 900k except property taxes that are too expesive to keep up with.

 

[LonelyGhost]

its a sad day when people who are healthy and privileged and comparatively wealthy express such anger and resentment towards those less fortunate.

so rather than waste anymore time convincing you guys to have some compassion, I will just pray for your humanity, because wealth without kindness is just greed.

 

[wilde]

slashed personal income taxes and increased the Medical Services premiums which hurts low-income earners more than the rich who got bigger personal income tax breaks.

at the same time, took physiotherapy, massage therapy, chiropractic off the MSP ... changed pharmacare to be more expensive which hurts both seniors and the disabled.

let insurance premiums skyrocket and then paid out bonuses that were not earned or deserved -- should have plunked it into a contingency fund and lowered premiums ... again, hurts low-income earners.

raised the 'homeowner grant' for expensive houses when they could have done away with the property transer tax for low-income people.

yup, these fuckers are REALLY good to us ...

According to the latest tax cuts, soon people earning less than 15,000/year will pay no provincial income tax. I guess that will really help the rich, wouldn't it. Premium assistance threshold for the MSP have been increased, I am sure the rich will qualify for that too.

I don't know about you, but seniors and the diabled can also be rich too, can't they? So the POOR are the ones who are really hurt by all those medical plan changes, that I'll give you.

I am sure you are aware that the provincial government whoever it might be, has no direct power to affect ICBC's policies. They can influence their directions over time. But if you are looking for someone to snap a finger and tell ICBC to do this or that, you are barking up the wrong tree.

Homeowner's grant is not even part of the provincial jurisdiction. Even if it was, the raising of the grant also protects seniors who are on fixed income who cannot afford these recent increases unless they sell or remortgage their house. I guess you don't care about that beacause they are "rich".

I understand you POV in protecting the poor and all that, where we disagree is just how much should be done. The so called rich people in BC are paying 43.7% of income tax at the highest marginal bracket. Some people (me included) think this is too much. What will satisfy a guy like yourself? 50? 60? How about 70?

And if you think the NDP stands for helping the poor, you are sadly mistaken. They will help the poor so long as the poor is in some form of organized labour. Wait a minute...... If they are in organized labour, are they really poor? Wealth without kindness is just greed, kindness without purpose is just dumb.

One last thing, compassion can never be measured by $$$. Because if it was, anybody who pays more taxes than you do would also be more compassionate.

 

[BushPilot]

Many times simple handouts to the poor aren't doing them any favours. Like the saying goes give a man a fish he eats for a day, teach a man to fish he eats for a lifetime.

I'll be honest here. I am a socialist. That being said, I've never taken one red cent from the government, other than a few GST rebate checks. I've even refrained from receiving EI benefits that I was legally and morally entitled to, because I really didn't need it. I also don't support many of the social programs that many others see as being essential. What I do believe with all my heart, is that we should never cheap out on education or health care. By drastically increasing the cost of post-secondary education and cutting back on grants and student loan programs, we risk becoming a society with permanent class barriers. When it becomes so that only the rich, or someone so exceptionally intelligent that they can complete their degree entirely on bursaries and scholarships, can go to university, we will all lose out. the poor will always stay poor, with few exceptions, and the rich will generally stay rich. It's a true capitalists dream, I'm sure, but I'd say no thanks.

 

[BushPilot]

And if you think the NDP stands for helping the poor, you are sadly mistaken. They will help the poor so long as the poor is in some form of organized labour.

You've been reading too many of the BCLiberals propaganda pieces.

 

[wilde]

You've been reading too many of the BCLiberals propaganda pieces.

Just like you have been brain washed by the NDP right?

Actually, I came to that conclusion all by myself.