Nawlins distaster

hugedman

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Aug 25, 2004
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luckydog71 said:
Actually it does. Even if the CDN military is not requested or deployed, just knowing they are on the ready and willing to help is comforting. I hope the people in the south are able to hear that news. I would assume communications is not working very well right now, but it is information like that that will let them know they are not alone.

Thanks for bring that out.

On different point It amazes me that the people who claim to be compassionate are the same ones who do not want to pass up the chance to take a shot at the US. 1000s dead, millions homeless, families separated, billions in damage and yet there are still the few who need to pick on the bones and take their shot.
ld7
come on, how could communications not working well? Its 3 states in trouble, not the whole America in devastating mode. CNN should know this news and be able to broadcast....different countries produce different news centres.
 

The Lizard King

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The USA is very fortunate to have for a neighbor the people of Canada. In a time of need on either side of the 49th is a time to put aside our differences and focus on helping these people any way we can.
This coming from the same guy who said "just keep the fuck outta our way" in response to others criticizing his country's invasion of another without provocation.

Hey LD, why has it taken so long to drop water and food to all of these people? Why weren't the rescue/relief efforts planned better? They knew it could be a category 4 or 5, it was heading stateside, and that there was going to be a significant amount of people (albeit mostly black and poor, not exactly GWB's "base") who would have no means to retreat.

Geez, the media sure is talking lots about the sniper attacks, shootings, lootings, rapes, and general anarchy, AND appear to be putting a black face to it. This could get real nasty. The black community is not going to like this thrown in their face 24x7, may realize that the majority of the folks left hanging by the "man" are mostly "brothers", and may ultimately lash out. Yes, this could get real nasty.

BTW, the U.S. lumber industry's offer or suggestion to lift softwood lumber tariffs if Canada sends free lumber in relief is beyond insulting.
 

luckydog71

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Oct 26, 2003
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hugedman said:
ld7
come on, how could communications not working well? Its 3 states in trouble, not the whole America in devastating mode. CNN should know this news and be able to broadcast....different countries produce different news centres.
The reason communications is not working well is there is no power. All cell towers are down; all electrical is out.

It is down to word of mouth.
 

luckydog71

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The Lizard King said:
This coming from the same guy who said "just keep the fuck outta our way" in response to others criticizing his country's invasion of another without provocation.
yes


The Lizard King said:
Hey LD, why has it taken so long to drop water and food to all of these people? Why weren't the rescue/relief efforts planned better? They knew it could be a category 4 or 5, it was heading stateside, and that there was going to be a significant amount of people (albeit mostly black and poor, not exactly GWB's "base") who would have no means to retreat.
I think Bush must have thought that the Mayor of N.O. would be another Rudy. He is not. He is not a leader and he is obviously way over his head.

The feds are very slow to respond. There is this reluctance to use our military inside of the country. I can not explain it, but my opinion of W has gone down a notch. After the first day when it was obvious the local authorities were incompetent, W should have step in and taken over.

The Lizard King said:
Geez, the media sure is talking lots about the sniper attacks, shootings, lootings, rapes, and general anarchy, AND appear to be putting a black face to it. This could get real nasty. The black community is not going to like this thrown in their face 24x7, may realize that the majority of the folks left hanging by the "man" are mostly "brothers", and may ultimately lash out. Yes, this could get real nasty.
I do not think it is the media putting a black face to the looting.


The Lizard King said:
BTW, the U.S. lumber industry's offer or suggestion to lift softwood lumber tariffs if Canada sends free lumber in relief is beyond insulting.
You are right, we should charge tariffs even on free lumber…WTF are you talking about?
 

The Lizard King

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I think Bush must have thought that the Mayor of N.O. would be another Rudy. He is not. He is not a leader and he is obviously way over his head.
You have a natural disaster of this magnitude, predicted well in advance, and your country's leader leaves it to a Mayor? Georgie Boy seems to be more worried that folks in Florida, coincidently his bro's state, are paying 6 bucks a gallon for gas. Good deflection though...

I do not think it is the media putting a black face to the looting.
Uh...yes they are!

You are right, we should charge tariffs even on free lumber…WTF are you talking about?
It was reported on Global News here that the lumber industry stateside would consider waiving future tariffs, effectively ending the trade dispute, if Canada would send free lumber.

Hey, where's Jesse J and Sharpton? They're letting the brothers down by allowing them to rot down there. Not a peep....
 

HeMadeMeDoIt

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You had to throw in a shot about Iraq at the end of your otherwise decent post didn't you, Hank?

The thread is about New Orleans shit for brains.

If I were American, not only wouldn't I welcome your comments, I would turn my back on any help you personally offered. You are a grade-A asshat.
AfuckingMen!

Had our positions been reversed with our neighbours to the south I am sure they would have offered AND delivered every assistance within their power.

Hank I hope you feel like a bigger man for your low blow!
 

Sunset

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Aug 10, 2004
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Lizard,

What do you expect from LD? LD has supported the regime that has played the Southern Strategy card to the hilt in a grab for power on the sufferings of American Black Southerners for years.

Based on the history of the American South, many probably intentionally did nothing to have mitigated the aftermath of the storm and are pleased with the suffering of the mostly Black and poor Americans.

What a disgrace to human kind.


:mad:
 

The Lizard King

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Based on the history of the American South, many probably intentionally did nothing to have prevented the flooding and are pleased with the suffering of the mostly Black and poor Americans.
Ouch...I don't know if I'd go that far, even as brutal as I am, but I do believe there would be more of a sense of urgency federally if we saw more white faces affected by it.
 

Sunset

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The Lizard King said:
Ouch...I don't know if I'd go that far, even as brutal as I am, but I do believe there would be more of a sense of urgency federally if we saw more white faces affected by it.
American Southern history of slavery, oppression, discrimination and racial hate is real. Why would any one now want to fall short in condemning the deep seeded attitudes that likely played a part in the current mostly Black suffering in Louisana and Mississippi.

Those Black Americans are feeling the Ouch you'd probably never understand.

:mad:
 

The Lizard King

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American Southern history of slavery, oppression, discrimination and racial hate is real. Why would any one now want to fall short in condemning the deep seeded attitudes that likely played a part in the current mostly Black suffering in Louisana and Mississippi.
No doubt but you really think the whites, including the authorities, intentionally did nothing? I don't know about that. I can see a large percentage not having much sympathy though.
 

Sunset

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The Lizard King said:
Hey LD, why has it taken so long to drop water and food to all of these people? Why weren't the rescue/relief efforts planned better? They knew it could be a category 4 or 5, it was heading stateside, and that there was going to be a significant amount of people (albeit mostly black and poor, not exactly GWB's "base") who would have no means to retreat.
Based on the history in the American South coupled with American national elections won on Southern Strategy, you answer your questions above.


:mad:
 

eljudo

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Sunset said:
American Southern history of slavery, oppression, discrimination and racial hate is real. Why would any one now want to fall short in condemning the deep seeded attitudes that likely played a part in the current mostly Black suffering in Louisana and Mississippi.

Those Black Americans are feeling the Ouch you'd probably never understand.

:mad:

YUP, I AM WITH YOU BRO!

As mentioned before.. the media wants to sell hype, sell fear into the hearts of the white majority.

Fear the arabs? lets bomb the shit out of them!
fear the blackman? yup, and heres its proof! rape, murder, shooting, snipers attack etc..

its all over the news.


if the US can do a shock and awe, move a big ass mean armada of trigger happy uneducated, low-middle class soldiers.. why cant they send a freaking brigade of them to take the city back from gangsters! instate martial law! KICK SOME FUCKING ASS!

but since its mostly black and poor.. no one seems to care..


sad, sad.. but its the truth.
 

Dave in Phoenix

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Local officials were not incompetent but simply overwhelmed and out of man power resources due to the huge magnitude of the disaster, in NO mostly due to the flooding due to dike break not the Hurricane itself. Police can't even report to work since no way to get to their police stations.

I agree more should have been done faster but also realize the huge geographic, logistic problem. All roads are blocked by debris, only way in is by air and its raining again. Zillions of military and Coast Guard helos are in service but they can only take 4-5 folks at a time. They have people on roofs, they have hundreds or seriously ill patients in at least two major hospitals who have no power, food or water and waist deep water surrounding them.

My biggest issue is the snipers and hoodlums running wild. They need Marine Rapid Deployment forces like they have in Iraq to be inserted by air within 30 minutes of a problem, not 3 days! Yes, we can blame it on the Iraq situation to some extent but we have to react to the current situation. The situation is just as serious as any terror attack and end result will likely be more dead than from the 9/11 attacks.

And its not just the poor or people that ignored the evacuation order. CNN had women with desperate people at the Ritz Carleton in NO. Just like the homeless they had no power, no water, no food, no phones, flood waters in front and hotel security was guarding the front to keep the looters out (water waste deep and probably contaminated) The women said they tried to make travel arrangement to leave but no planes, no busses, no rail tickets available. They obviously preferred to stay in the Ritz than go to the Superdome. They were there on their anniversary and worried no one was thinking about the people in all the expensive hotels that now have the same survival issues as the poor areas.

On rebuilding I think it will have to be decided to spend a massive amount of money to build the dikes to withstand a Cat 5 hurricane not just Cat 3. That had been discussed for years, but just too expensive for the small risk. That will be rethought now.

On the "black face" of the robbers. NO is what about 68% black and overall have lower incomes and education which often results in the law breaking situation. Its not Racist just a fact. In Atlanta many blacks have done very well for themselves as I'm sure some in NO have. I don't buy there is any slower response due to any race issue, that is just a made up unfounded attack in my view.

On Canadian offers of assistance. The short response I saw from Pres Bush was that they would welcome such help from foreign countries. Wasn't arrogant saying we don't need at all as someone suggested. Clinton and Bush are joining forces again to raise money as in the tsunami.

The biggest irony is having the heads of so many agencies saying how great things are going, while news reporters on the scene tell a totally different reality. A lot like Bush's distorted sense of reality on many issues (including of course Iraq). "Help is coming" is sounding far too little too late, when people are dying on the streets and many have no food or water. But with no roads in it is not all the agencies fault. I understand only now major roads have been cleared and railroads are being worked on which could bring massive supplies in rail cars.

But there will be massive numbers of troops, supplies, etc in the days ahead. Even the Navy is deploying massive assets to the region including the 1000 bed hospital shop Comfort, but it has to get there from Baltimore. The hospital ship seems like the best idea yet once it gets there. But have to fly in the patients another logistics problem
 

tiger

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If on Tuesday morning, August 30, the Mayor of New Orleans or the Governor of Louisiana had said "We need 2400 busses to evacuate 120,000 people (50 people per bus) because the levy has broken, and we need to do it in 48 hours, and we need to airlift 2000 people from hospitals in that same 48 hours, and by the way, it needs to exercised as if you are under constant enemy fire, because you will be shot at. We recommend 40,000 troops be here immediately to keep the peace and oversee the loading of every bus and escort every airlift. By the way, contact a lot of surrounding cities for us and tell them to get shelters ready for 120,000." the world would have thought they were crazy. In hindsight, that was the request they needed to make on Tuesday morning. It is sureal.

In Baton Rouge, a town of normally 450,000 if you include all suburbs, etc. - the population has swolen to almost a million. The grocery stores have no bread, milk, or lunch meat. Gas stations don't have gas left, and fast food places have shut down because they have sold out. It is similar to Moscow - and they did not receive any significant hurricane damage. Those problems are nothing compared to land east of New Orleans - nothing exists anymore.

During 9/11, one could get their head around the problem, it was several city blocks in New York. This distruction stretches more than 150 miles - it is impossible to imagine the entire situation. 26 billion dollars is a joke for damage estimates. It will exceed 1 trillion dollars, and the impacts on NORTH AMERICAN economy will linger for 20 years.

10 refineries are not operating, and chemical plants that produce olefins, alcohols, plastics, resins, nylon, polyester, are all shut down. Warehouses that distribute anything and everything are destroyed -gone, and thousand of semi-trailers that would carry products are gone. Over a million barrels a day of crude production is shut down (and a lot of natural gas). Poultry and meat packing (a big industry in Miss) is severly hampered because of loss of power for 2/3rds of the state.

There will likely be rationing of gasoline, electricity, water, food, building supplies, and who knows what else once this is sorted out. Black markets will emerge.

It is pointless to blame anyone - let's resolve to do something constructive to help the situation.
 

Ilovethemall

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This is the reason the US has not used forces such as marine rapid deployment to shut down the looters etc. It goes back over 100 years that the military cannot act as a police force, execpt national guardsmen.....seems to me that the people there would not like to see marines in place - espcially all the militia morons.

As far as a black face, I have spent a fair bit of time in LA and the reality is that the people that could least afford to leave the city are black. This means the majority of people there are black and therefore it is black people comitting the crimes - not a racist comment, just a fact. I did note that the white cops were looting as well - if I had a kid to feed, I would do it too.

Now, two more things - first, for ouor PM to even consider talking lumber when a city has basically just been destroyed is fucking ridiculous and insulting to me as a Canadian.

Second - for all you scumbags taking shots at the US, if Vancouver had been destroyed by an earthquake, the Americans would be here to help. Period. So quit using this forum as a method to take shots at people when they have just taken one to the gut - ANYONE taking these shots disgusts me as a Canadian and frankly, shows NONE of the values that we as Canadians are supposed to embody. So shutup you smug bastards.
 

ace85

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It is the Naivety that is PAINFUL to WATCH

This is a natural disaster that caused a second manmade disaster.

People thinking that the government should snap their fingers and the problem will be dealt with. The solutions take time, emergency or not.

This is what happens.

Too Many People, Too Close together, and and the INFRASTRUCTURE that holds it all together is really fragile.

People who had the chance to leave and the ability to leave who didn't need to be the last on the list for support.

Somebody stated that those at the RITZ Carelton are suffering the same as the others. BS There hotel rooms have mini bars, and the hotel itself has food. we are talking about 3 -5 days. Sure you aren't getting 3 course meals, but survival wont be an issue.
 

ace85

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wilde said:
Nope, I was suggesting that perhaps the US could have done more. But now is not the time to discuss this. I donated $$ for the tsunami disaster, and I increased the donation to $$.5 this time around. Well, I guess my pooning budget for the month is almost gone. I hope fellow perbites will give what you can.
So if this isn't a time to discuss this,then why did you bring it up.

Cheap SHOT that is all.
 

rafterman

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Nov 27, 2002
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Story from on line magazine Salon.com

Inside New Orleans
Sneaking past the police lines, we find a surreal scene where tourists are sleeping on bridges, restaurateurs are eating high on the hog, and looters lurk on every corner.

- - - - - - - - - - - -
By Kathryn Jezer-Morton and Gray Miles



Sept. 1, 2005 | NEW ORLEANS -- Nineteen miles west of New Orleans, near the LaPlace exit on Interstate 10, there's a roadblock where harried police officials check vehicles and press credentials. We tell an officer we're with the press, although we don't have an official badge. "You'll be in the way," he responds, and turns us back. But we manage to enter the city by state Highway 90, slipping into the cracks of a porous rescue operation.

Passing over flooded thoroughfares, Highway 90 cuts through the suburban community of Metairie. Dodging windfallen corrugated roofing and downed telephone poles, we pass a man determinedly mowing his lawn, and drive by an evacuated hospital, where bewildered people still wearing backless patient tunics wade through flooded streets. A plainclothes detective gives us a hint as to how to proceed downtown, and we ford a street under 3 feet of swamp water.

Along River Road, which runs along the Mississippi, things dry out. Although tree limbs are scattered about, we almost believe that it's not quite as bad as it seems. As we drive through the stately Uptown section of New Orleans, it appears that there is no one around at all. Finally, we come upon a lone pedestrian carrying a garbage bag on his back. He angrily yells at us for a ride, but we don't stop.

On a peaceful, dry side street, an elderly woman is holding court on her front porch while her family mills about on the street. Rose Jerrell, 65, has weathered the storm with her three children and several grandchildren. Now that the weather has blown over, they're sitting on the porch eating corn on the cob and listening to the radio. They're not planning on leaving, no matter how long it will be until services are restored. "We're just fine here," she says. "We don't run from hurricanes. You guys going sightseeing?" she asks us with a grin as we head toward downtown.

The only accessible roads into the city that have not been flooded are in a narrow stretch running along the Mississippi levee, which forms the highest point of land in the area. The Mississippi levee that protects the French Quarter and Magazine Street district from the river is a large earthworks structure, and one of the first levees built in New Orleans. Throughout Katrina, the levee kept the river from overflowing and joining the waters of Lake Pontchartrain coming in from the north side of town. The newer, heavy-duty steel canal floodgates broke under the strain of the battering storm surge.

Surrounding this slice of passable streets are scenes of grim destruction. Smoldering ruins, twisted pieces of corrugated metal, hundreds of downed and uprooted live oak trees litter the streets. On the outskirts of downtown, clusters of shellshocked survivors wander down empty thoroughfares, pushing what's left of their belongings in shopping carts and strollers.

"I don't really know where I'm going," says Kendall, a woman from the Ninth Ward neighborhood, who declines to give her last name. "Wherever they take me, I'm going. Anywhere with electricity. At the Ninth Ward, the water is 20 feet. The water ain't draining. We have got to start all over." She rejoins a long, aimless caravan of New Orleanians from the eastern side of the city, who are congregating in the business district.

The Ninth Ward is one of the most flood-devastated neighborhoods. Lying to the east of the French Quarter, the Ninth Ward, which is predominantly African-American, is one of the poorest parts of New Orleans, and was also the area that sustained the most damage from Hurricane Betsy in 1965, in which 200 residents died.

On our way into the city, most of the media appeared to be gathering on the expressway, waiting for the evacuation to begin before rolling camera. Inside the city, where contaminated floodwater is beginning to stink in the midday sun, a few camera crews remain. The CNN crew stands in the middle of Canal Street, downtown New Orleans' main thoroughfare, bargaining to buy a truck from a soon-to-be evacuee. "How much gas does it have in it?" asks a producer. "Will you throw in the canoe? Can we siphon some gas off another vehicle?"
 

rafterman

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Nov 27, 2002
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Blue sky country
Page 2

On Wednesday afternoon, helicopters begin lifting evacuees from shelters to a designated stretch of I-10, where dozens of school buses wait to take people west toward Houston. National Guard military trucks packed with people barrel out of town toward the makeshift transport hub, but tens of thousands of people remain stranded in downtown New Orleans, without any idea of where to go, or how to get there.

Rescue efforts did not begin in earnest until late Wednesday afternoon, although the worst of the storm passed mid-morning on Monday. Initially, Coast Guard helicopters transported a few stranded flood victims to storm shelters around the city, while camera crews beamed the images of rooftop rescues. Mayor Ray Nagin had warned before the storm that shelters would be places of "last resort," and in stifling heat that reached 95 degrees, with no running water or electricity, they became chaotic scenes of desperation.

We talk to a few of the thousands of people for whom no shelter was provided. Tourists have been some of the unlucky ones. "We were kicked out of our hotel several days ago; we were thrown out onto the street with no food or supplies or anything," says Betty Ellanson, a 60-ish woman from Sumter County, Ga. "We're on our own. We've been told that by law enforcement and the National Guard." Ellanson is camping out, sleeping on a cement pedestrian bridge that runs between the convention center and the Riverwalk shopping mall with a makeshift clan of 50 other tourists, who had been expelled from the same hotel for "liability reasons." They have been scavenging the streets for food and water, hoarding peanuts and soft drinks among their Samsonites.

Lacking any reliable source of information about how to proceed, residents from the flooded eastern parts of the city and stranded visitors wander westward in a state of desperation. People shout at cars, pleading for rides to anywhere, and ask each other where they're headed. Several thousand residents forced from their homes line Convention Center Avenue, where rumor has it evacuations were set to begin. National Guard personnel say they had no immediate plans to begin evacuations from that location.

While chatting with some of the National Guardsmen, another guardsman approaches and informs us that a woman is in the middle of a stroke around the corner. The guardsmen shrug. There is no emergency medical tent in the downtown area, and many people in need of medicine have no way of getting what they need, even inside the shelters. On our way into the French Quarter, a wild-eyed man flags down our car, begging us for insulin or information about where some can be found. We cannot help him.

In contrast, some residents of the French Quarter appear comfortable, well-fed and relaxed. About 150 New Orleans police officers have commandeered the Royal Omni Hotel, part of the international luxury chain of Omni hotels that is housed in an elegant 19th century building, complete with crystal chandeliers and a rooftop pool. "All of the officers that are here, I can tell you in a classical sense, are gladiators," says Capt. Kevin Anderson, commander of the Eighth District of the NOPD (French Quarter). "To be able to put your family's concerns aside to protect the citizens of New Orleans, it's just an awesome job," he says.

Across the street from the Royal Omni at the Eighth District police department, several police officers keep a wary eye on the street with shotguns at the ready, while some fellow officers grill sausage links over charcoal barbecues. They are under strict orders not to communicate with the media. Capt. Anderson does confirm, however, that locations where officers were housed came under gunfire on Tuesday night. No officers were injured. "It is a very dangerous situation that we're in," Anderson says.

Apart from rescue operations, the police department patrols for looters, who have ransacked stores in virtually every part of the city. Looters are visible on every street corner. Every kind of business, from rundown corner markets to the Gucci storefront on South Peters Street, has been looted.

We walk half a block down Royal Street from the Eighth District headquarters and come upon Brennan's Restaurant, one of New Orleans' most venerable dining institutions. The Brennans are a high-profile family of restaurateurs and run several of the highest-end eateries in town. Jimmy Brennan and a crew of his relatives are holing up in the restaurant along with the chef, Lazone Randolph. They are sleeping on air mattresses, drinking Cheval Blanc, and feasting on the restaurant's reserves of haute Creole food.

The atmosphere in the French Quarter, while relatively quiet, is decidedly tense, but Brennan isn't worried. "We're not too concerned. The police let us go over to the Royal Omni, to take a shower, freshen up, and we cooked them some prime rib. We take care of them, they take care of us," says Randolph. Two Brennan emissaries whisk past, bearing multilayer chocolate cakes, headed toward the precinct. "This has been working out real well for us," says Jimmy Brennan.

Contrary to many reports, the French Quarter remains undamaged by flooding. The streets are dry and damage to the 18th and 19th century buildings appears to be minimal. Heavily pierced French Quarter denizens are emerging slowly, almost groggily, and some are looking to evacuate. One woman, wearing a black lace slip and fanning herself with a souvenir fan from a production of "Les Miserables," makes her way toward the Superdome, carrying no luggage.

"The Quarter always survives!" declares Finnis, the owner of Alex Patout's restaurant on St. Louis Street, who declined to give his last name. Standing in front of his restaurant, he sips champagne with several friends, insisting that his restaurant's gradually warming walk-in fridges will provide them with sustenance for up to a month.

Indeed, food doesn't seem to concern those who intend to stay through the rebuilding process. Back Uptown, Jerrell and her sons will avail themselves of the local A&P, which has long since had its doors broken off. It will be a long time before it reopens, and until then its shelves will be a lifeline for many.

While the water appears to have ceased rising since Tuesday night, the French Quarter is hemmed in by water on three sides. Four blocks away from the Eighth District headquarters and Brennan's restaurant lie mile-long stretches of the stinking floodwaters of Lake Pontchartrain.

Back on Canal Street, no one seems to be going anywhere. Despite the city having shut off the water supply in an attempt to force evacuation, many New Orleans citizens don't seem intent upon leaving. Others, who wish to leave, are in the dark as to how. With authorities saying that services may not be restored for one to two months, the question of what will become of these thousands of New Orleanians remains the most unresolved issue in Katrina's aftermath.

As the afternoon begins to wane, we hasten to leave the downtown area. Nighttime is pitch-black in New Orleans now, and martial law has not succeeded in quelling the sense that total anarchy is just a few more hot days away.

salon.com
 
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