My fellow liberals - please don't donate to the Salvation Army

[*emmanuelle]

Hello you, yes you! By your very participation in this hobby, I consider you to be a liberal-minded individual (note the small "l", not capital L, ha ha)

Christmas is a time of benevolence for many of us, but as you're dolling out your hard-earned loonies this year, I would like to remind you to donate your charity funds to non-denominational NFP charities, which does not include The Salvation Army.

Did you know that "The Salvation Army threatened to close all their soup kitchens in New York City to protest the city’s decision to require all vendors and charities doing business with the city to adhere to all civil rights laws. The organization balked at having to treat gay employees equal to straight employees"?

What's more, you're probably on this site cause you love women right? Well what if I told you that the Sally Ann has a strongly misogynistic pro-life stance? "Even their own website makes it clear they are against the rights of a woman to choose “When an unwanted pregnancy occurs, The Salvation Army counsels that the parents receive caring support for their emotional, physical, social and spiritual needs, and that the unborn child be carried to term.”

Support women, support choice, support sexual freedom and human rights. Donate to your local toy bank, food bank, or other non-denominational, not-for-profit charity. Thank you for reading.

http://www.unifreethought.com/2011/12/do-not-donate-to-salvation-army.html
http://www.facebook.com/BoycottSalvationArmy?ref=ts
http://neverthoughttoquestionwhy.wordpress.com/2011/12/05/shun-the-bell-ringers/
http://freethoughtblogs.com/dispatc...gn=Feed:+FreethoughtBlogs+(Freethought+Blogs)
http://zinniajones.com/blog/2011/12/common-objections-to-boycotting-the-salvation-army/

 

[jesuschrist]

Thanks for that.... it is refreshing to read such intelligent posts, one of a number I have noticed. That extra dimension of high intelligence makes you all the more sexy indeed....!

 

[badbadboy]

For years, I have donated $500 every Christmas to needy charities supporting needy families with children in North Vancouver.

I find it difficult to find charities that are NOT run by religious organizations who have values contrary to my own. I have researched several and they all seem to have an overtone which I find personally appalling.

What is a liberal person to do if they have money they want to put in the hands of a needy family with kids? I have this internal plight every year. I suspect I will once again write an cheque and donate it as usual.

 

[*emmanuelle]

For years, I have donated $500 every Christmas to needy charities supporting needy families with children in North Vancouver.

I find it difficult to find charities that are NOT run by religious organizations who have values contrary to my own. I have researched several and they all seem to have an overtone which I find personally appalling.

What is a liberal person to do if they have money they want to put in the hands of a needy family with kids? I have this internal plight every year. I suspect I will once again write an cheque and donate it as usual.

Hi BBB, I wish I could recommend some non-denominational charities right here in this post, but in the past I have received serious legal retribution for mentioning a charity's name on this board and on my website (it turns out that charities don't want their names to show up on an escort review board when potential donors research them online) A relatively quick Google search might give you the info you're looking for though. Happy holiday!!

 

[Iroc]

Count me in with Cuteangie and Hatrick...
They (Sally-Anne) and every other organization that does good will for the less fortunate will be getting something a little extra from me this season.

 

[Elmore]

That sounds kinda petty to me, the Sally Anne is a religious based organization for sure and they don't support abortion and probably don't care for gays. On the other hand they get their feet on the ground and do a lot of good work to help distressed people in need and for these folks a bit of bible reading along with a nice hot meal and some encouragement to get out of the gutter can go a long way! I doubt the Sally anne is too top heavy with large salaried a-holes skimming funds away from the poor like some other charities, they have always been there when their help was required and at this time of year keeping their kettles full is the right thing to do! The Vancouver/ Lower mainland chapter is a very dedicated group and I wouldn't compare them to the US version at all!

Excellent post.

 

[Gentle-man]

That sounds kinda petty to me, the Sally Anne is a religious based organization for sure and they don't support abortion and probably don't care for gays. On the other hand they get their feet on the ground and do a lot of good work to help distressed people in need and for these folks a bit of bible reading along with a nice hot meal and some encouragement to get out of the gutter can go a long way! I doubt the Sally anne is too top heavy with large salaried a-holes skimming funds away from the poor like some other charities, they have always been there when their help was required and at this time of year keeping their kettles full is the right thing to do! The Vancouver/ Lower mainland chapter is a very dedicated group and I wouldn't compare them to the US version at all!

Several years ago (shortly after Hurricane Katrina) I believe it was Time Magazine that compared the Salvation Army to the Red Cross... the two organizations were comparable size in the US. The difference was vast, while the head of the Red Cross was pulling in a high 6 figure salary, the head of the Salvation army would survive in a small apt making just a meager salary. The percentage of donations that got into actually helping people was huge, Red Cross lost so much more in Administration etc... You may not agree with all of, or most of, their ideals, and some of these issues are complex, but bottom line is if you agree that the homeless and less fortunate need help and they are good at providing that... that is a similarity that we can build on, instead of looking for ways that we can be divided... Bottom line though, if you have lots this holiday season (or at any point in time really) find a way to make someone else's life better with it.

My 2 cents

 

[chilli]

Very few organizations do as much for the poor in our country as the Salvation Army.

Although I don't agree with some of their religious policies, as an organizations their extremely selfless.

I will continue to support them.

 

[dabears]

I agree with Emmanuelle, i hate those fucking bastards, my father recently passed away, and every year for the past 10 years he volunteered at Chistmas to work the Kettle, he actually organized this with a organization he belonged too, his business donated $15,000.00 to the Sally anne last year. When he passed he wanted a certain type of funeral, at the Kelowna Salvation Army cause this was a charity he had believed in, and those ****ing ***holes denied us to have his memorial at their church because of the orginization he belonged to. They had no problem taking his money or for him to volunteer at the kettle, but then deny him to be put to rest the way he had wanted. They can kiss my ass

 

[Ms. Yoko Anna]

How about Cool Aid society?
It is Victoria based organization to support those who has low income, disable, and actually every single member of the community if you need help.

I have run ukulele workshops in Rees (Resorce, Education, Employment Support) program and do monthly donation to Peers, which is a service providers supporting organization in Victoria. I have never sensed any bits of Jesus nor god, but people working there is pretty cool and kind.

Cool Aid is Victoria based, but I'm sure there is some in Vancouver that has nothing to do with god.

 

[myselftheother]

An alternative is the Food Bank. Give generously, as they also feed and support the needy, those with children. Let's fill it up!

 

[newatit]

Some of the material in this thread is disgusting, in fact the original note is totally undemocratic and merciless. If we accept the principles of democracy and human decency then we have to respect that others will disagree with our opinions and that we owe them that priviledge and respect. There are lots of different opinions within the various religions, and within the various religions there are differences of opinions too. The Salvation Army and many other religious organizations do tremenduous good work at very little cost as has been pointed out, and they support a vast array of people with very different opinions and backgrounds. To condemn the whole organization and particular that organization in a city that is thousands of miles away with different social issues than we have, is pretty unwise. To all those unfortuneate people who will benefit from the Sally Ann and our contributions in our community this year, I will continue to make my donations. If the perpetrator of this thread would take the time to look within her own city, she might see a different perspective. I would not condemn her, she is practicing her rights too.

But to be as uncharitable as she is, I would suggest all of us do not "donate" to her cause either at this time of year. Let us be as narrow minded as she is with respect to her needs.

 

[leoghaire]

when you go to the polls to vote you will never find a party that you agree with %100 so you look for what is most important and hold your nose with the rest. If you have some money to donate and are looking to find a charity that you can agree with the policies of %100, the money will end up staying in you pocket and helping no-one. Sometimes one has to take the good with the bad.

 

[vancity_cowboy]

the sally ann's ringing the bells and collecting clothing and dollars are indeed very dedicated individuals, but there is where the 'christian' values end. behind the scenes the salvation army is a 'charity' administered by a group of high powered lawyers who of course charge administration fees, and guess what? the fees almost, but not quite, use up all the money collected or made by the stores... not quite, because of course they have to make SOME kind of charitable contributions in order to maintain their status as a charity, so an annual contribution to the united way covers that off nicely, then its back to their snouts in the trough

what the salvation army used to be and what it is today are two completely different things. if you doubt what i say, try attaching your real name and telephone number to an accusation like this and see how long it takes before you get a call from one of those legal firms

i also go with safeway to honestly deliver the goods to the people that need it

 

[*emmanuelle]

All of these things - food, clothing, shelter, employment, counseling, etc. can be provided by other, more inclusive, less discriminating charities. Saying "Oh well, the SA does good things so I don't care about the bad things they do" is a terrible argument when there do exist plenty of other charities.

Yes, in politics, you have to make a choice between a small handful of candidates, all of whom will have some things you agree with, and other you don't.

This isn't politics. You have gazillions of charities to choose from, so go find one that both 1) helps people 2) doesn't discriminate. You can have both! It's not rocket surgery.

Read something like this, and think hard about who you want to support.

Among other things, the money people give to the Salvation Army goes to pay the salaries of lobbyists in Washington D.C. What, oh what, do those Salvation Army lobbyists lobby for? The Salvation Army lobbies in favor of the political agenda of the Religious Right.There’s the time, for example, when the Salvation Army leaders met behind closed doors with the Bush White House to come up with a strategy for passing a law that would allow government-funded groups to fire people for refusing to join the religions of their bosses.
95 percent of the Salvation Army’s budget for children services came from the federal government, and was used, among other things, to conduct an anti-gay witch hunt in which employees were told to look for signs of homosexual activity in their colleagues, and to expose those colleagues so that they could be fired.
The plain fact is that the Salvation Army would only conduct a tiny fraction of its charitable works if it did not receive billions of dollars of government money. Much of the red kettle money goes toward building and maintaining Salvation Army churches. When you throw your money into the red kettle, are you thinking about helping people in need or about maintaining the temple in Rochester, New York?
There’s also the Salvation Army’s history of rescinding benefits to same-sex domestic partners. Said the Human Rights Campaign, “We’re talking about health care, about providing health benefits, and what the Salvation Army has decided to do is prevent certain families from getting health care, and that’s just mean.”
​

For god's sake, I'm not saying "don't donate your money to charities" I'm saying "donate your money to a different charity" We have options.

 

[huggzy]

Did you know that "The Salvation Army threatened to close all their soup kitchens in New York City to protest the city’s decision to require all vendors and charities doing business with the city to adhere to all civil rights laws. The organization balked at having to treat gay employees equal to straight employees"?

I can appreciate your position on this. However it appears that NYC is taking on this fight for you. That said, sometimes you have to pick the right fights and I'm not sure that this is one of them. No matter how evil you might think it is to allow anti-gay policies in SA's workplace unfortunately the alternative you are proposing would bring far more pain and suffering to our world.

If you want to start an alternative organization that does as much good as SA, then by all means. Until there is a better alternative out there though, sorry...but its too hard to find truly good charities that aren't pissing away our donations.

What's more, you're probably on this site cause you love women right? Well what if I told you that the Sally Ann has a strongly misogynistic pro-life stance? "Even their own website makes it clear they are against the rights of a woman to choose “When an unwanted pregnancy occurs, The Salvation Army counsels that the parents receive caring support for their emotional, physical, social and spiritual needs, and that the unborn child be carried to term.”

Support women, support choice, support sexual freedom and human rights. Donate to your local toy bank, food bank, or other non-denominational, not-for-profit charity. Thank you for reading.

I'm sorry, but I find this perspective very insulting. I do not believe that people who support the "pro-life" position are "anti-women". That is pure and utter bullshit. Pro-lifers are not anti-women...they take the position that they are protecting a human life that cannot defend itself. Whether you agree with a pro-lifer's position or not it is completely unfair to spin this position into being "anti-woman".

I personally am still unsure what position to take in this argument because I can see both sides of it. However, I do tend to lean towards pro-life. Why?

Because a woman can choose whether she has sex or not (let's not get into the rape argument). When she does she knows what the risks are and the argument that she should be responsible for her choices is a very strong one.

Does the fetus have a right to be protected as a human being? That's a tough argument, isn't it? I don't know how to answer that one, so because of this I tend to favor protecting the fetus because I can't bring myself to argue that it isn't a human being just because it hasn't left the womb yet.

At the end of the day I lean towards the concept that a woman should consider her choice to have sex more responsibly than many do (I'm sure I'll get flamed because this is, in fact, a board that supports pooning).

If you want "pro-choice", then a strong argument can be made that you already do choose when you choose to have sex. You just don't want to acknowledge this reality because it's not convenient.

I always find "pro-choice" arguments interesting when they take the stance that to argue against it is violating a woman's human rights...but they don't even want to acknowledge the existence of the rights of the other human's involved in that argument - the baby, the father and society as a whole.

 

[Devo]

Hello you, yes you! By your very participation in this hobby, I consider you to be a liberal-minded individual (note the small "l", not capital L, ha ha)

Christmas is a time of benevolence for many of us, but as you're dolling out your hard-earned loonies this year, I would like to remind you to donate your charity funds to non-denominational NFP charities, which does not include The Salvation Army.

Did you know that "The Salvation Army threatened to close all their soup kitchens in New York City to protest the city’s decision to require all vendors and charities doing business with the city to adhere to all civil rights laws. The organization balked at having to treat gay employees equal to straight employees"?

What's more, you're probably on this site cause you love women right? Well what if I told you that the Sally Ann has a strongly misogynistic pro-life stance? "Even their own website makes it clear they are against the rights of a woman to choose “When an unwanted pregnancy occurs, The Salvation Army counsels that the parents receive caring support for their emotional, physical, social and spiritual needs, and that the unborn child be carried to term.”

Support women, support choice, support sexual freedom and human rights. Donate to your local toy bank, food bank, or other non-denominational, not-for-profit charity. Thank you for reading.

http://www.unifreethought.com/2011/12/do-not-donate-to-salvation-army.html
http://www.facebook.com/BoycottSalvationArmy?ref=ts
http://neverthoughttoquestionwhy.wordpress.com/2011/12/05/shun-the-bell-ringers/
http://freethoughtblogs.com/dispatc...gn=Feed:+FreethoughtBlogs+(Freethought+Blogs)
http://zinniajones.com/blog/2011/12/common-objections-to-boycotting-the-salvation-army/

Maybe the dumbest post of the year. And don't call me a Liberal.

 

[*emmanuelle]

Maybe the dumbest post of the year. And don't call me a Liberal.

lol, I didn't call you a Liberal. Read my post. Do you know the difference between a liberal and a Liberal?

 

[Devo]

lol, I didn't call you a Liberal. Read my post. Do you know the difference between a liberal and a Liberal?

Emmanuelle, at your so called "more inclusive, less discriminating charities" do they have screeners in place to ensure that no racist,homophobic,misogynistic, religious, individuals donate money?

 

[Devo]

*emmanuelle, the problem with your approach is that you fail to recognize that the Salvation Army is a Church. As a Church they have a specific theology and that theology precludes having active participants of alternative sexual lifestyles as officers (Ministers) of the Church.

The liberal/socialist demand that all others conform to their view of "total equality" is destroying the delivery of charity. The reality is that there is no charity that is acceptable to the liberal/socialist anarchists. They believe that having to accept charity is "undignified" and that governments should simply provide everyone with guaranteed funds to live a "dignified" lifestyle.

As we are finding out with the economic collapse of 2007 - 2009, the current economic collapse in Europe and the inevitable economic collapse of the USA is that when people are told that they MUST support people that are "playing the system", people have no difficulty at all in voting for lower taxes and even moving to other locations if they have an education or financial resources that can make them a "world citizen".

For the last 30 years, ever since proposition 13 in California, people have voted for lower taxes and higher services. That has been a phenomena in all western nations - including Canada.

Charities like the Salvation Army are essential for the homeless. The philosophy of "Soup, Soap and Salvation" keeps people that would otherwise starve to death alive. Many of the people the Salvation Army helps can't be helped through the Food Banks. In order to use the Food Bank, a person has to have the ability to cook food.

The Salvation Army, consistently with every audit, is one of the charities that delivers 94% of the money they collect directly to the charitable service they promise.

In your post, you combine the tithe that a member of the Salvation Army pays to their church with the money that the Salvation Army collects and spends on their shelters and soup kitchens. That is intellectually dishonest. AND, you are intelligent enough to know that it is intellectually dishonest. That makes your campaign unforgivable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Salvation_Army
http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0199-6028161/Slow-going-for-Kroc-Centers.html

Thank God that the people in need at Christmas don't have to rely only on the Liberals,socialists,and atheists for support.