Massage Parlours raids top Local CTV evening News

[purplehaze]

do you guys think rates are going to go down b/c the mp have taken such a big hit with the recent raids. I dont think nearly as many ppl are going to be going as before

 

[georgebushmoron]

I read a write up on the the bawdy house charge and it said that the police have to show that the place is offering numerous scts of sex to get titled a bawdy house. A single act does not constitute that title.

That's right. It has to be shown that the intent of the establishment is to offer sex acts for money. However, that intent has to be shown in court AFTER being charged. The proof of intent does not have to exist before the raid. The police have tremendous leeway to determine probability that a crime is being committed, and can thus start the pressing of charges almost at will. Otherwise, they need permission from the Crown to conduct such raids. In this case, the permission was likely given long ago and thus the cops were free to press charges as indiscriminately as they have been.

 

[Quarter Mile'r]

That's right. It has to be shown that the intent of the establishment is to offer sex acts for money. However, that intent has to be shown in court AFTER being charged. The proof of intent does not have to exist before the raid. The police have tremendous leeway to determine probability that a crime is being committed, and can thus start the pressing of charges almost at will. Otherwise, they need permission from the Crown to conduct such raids. In this case, the permission was likely given long ago and thus the cops were free to press charges as indiscriminately as they have been.

So in this scenario they excercise these crown permissions on an
assumption of guilt.......what a crock of shit !!!!!!
How do they get away with that with no proof before hand?

A scenario that was played out on 18 different establishments no less,
all at the same time.


........QM'r

 

[HaywoodJabloemy]

They can charge everyone at the same time. LE certainly doesn't have to wait for a conviction on the "keeping" charge before arresting and charging the inmates and found-ins. I believe LE often charges the inmates and found-ins so they can offer to drop the charges in exchange for testifying against the keeper of the common bawdy-house.

And BTW, LE does not necessarily have to go into the place undercover. This is from an article in October about a Burlington Ont. MP charged with being a common bawdy-house.
---------------------
"We didn't go undercover. We did some random surveillance over a couple of months and interviewed some people coming out," said Det. Glenn Mannella. "Our only evidence is that masturbation is alleged, nothing above that..."
----------------------

And if a place is charged as a common bawdy-house and stays open, don't assume it's safe to keep going there. LE can keep showing up repeatedly and simply rounding up anyone there and charging them as a found-in or inmate. You are a sitting duck.

 

[Quarter Mile'r]

And if a place is charged as a bawdy-house and stays open, don't assume it's safe to keep going there. LE can keep showing up repeatedly and simply rounding up anyone there and charging them as a found-in or inmate. You are a sitting duck.

And that is why this black thursday is so scary not to mention the fact
that they are forwarding evidence to bylaw enforcement to try and push
to have these places closed down. In particular, revokement of licenses.
What a predicament indeed.

Also one other thing, what about the many places that weren't hit.
Are they next on a subsequent raid to follow in the near future?

Literally, watch your asses fellow pooners !!
Thurday was our shock and awe in the pooning world, what's next!

.........QM'r

 

[shapeshifter]

Uhhh... are you being sarcastic or trying to be serious? Sarcasm doesn't always come across in writing.
Brothels are bawdy-houses by definition in the Criminal Code of Canada. There is definitely no such thing as a "brothel licence" anywhere in Canada.
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/C-46/280658.html

The Swedish Touch is the only one that has a legal "bodyrub" licence.

They reassure clients and prospective clients that there's zero possibility of being arrested while enjoying time on their premises.


bodyrub licence

From that article: "Windsor said Vancouver has about a dozen licensed social escort agencies and one licensed massage parlour, the Swedish Touch"

Other businesses offering massage "touch therapy" are licensed as "health enhancement agencies," she said, noting many are legitimate and employ registered massage therapists.

John Lowman, a criminology professor at Simon Fraser University who is considered an expert on prostitution, said it would be illegal for the city to licence a brothel because it violates the Criminal Code section prohibiting keeping a common bawdy house.

"But the City of Vancouver already licenses brothels," he added. "A body rub licence is clearly designed to be a brothel licence" .




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[SFMIKE]

Groundhog Day

That is what I am reminded of by all this bickering, all these offerings of experteze on the subject.

Those of us in my area lived through our very own "Black Thursday" just like you all did the other day.

The only thing I remember learning from all of it was to step back, take a deep breath, and wait for things to shake out. The outcome is going to be what it is going to be. Things have yet to return to normal here in over 16 months now and my advice is to prepare yourselves for a similar outcome.

My one disappointment I have from all of you is the lack of any mention of the girls in the business who depended on this employment for their livelihood. I have met a few ladies I am afraid will be affected by all of this and I wonder how they are going to continue doing the good things they were able to do for their families.

Sure, many of you see it affecting how you persue a "hobby" you enjoyed, but, please, think about these ladies. If you think you feel bad because you might find yourself deprived of something you have come to enjoy, think how they must feel.

I know I have given that part more thought than most of you. I hope there is someone who agrees with me on this.

 

[jimbo2006]

SFM: good points and well taken

Now these events will severely screw up my systematic rolodex of SP/micro/AMP contacts that I have so painstakingly compiled to date. LOL J/K

I wouldn't call any of this "bickering" at all. I see it more along the lines of people chipping in with intel/updates & offering their opinions. The one common ground is we're all searching for answers and we're all making our own evaluations on the hobby. Bottom line is nobody knows what will ultimately shake out but it will be an interesting process no doubt.

Here are some possibilities off the top of my head:
-From the sound of things, almost certainly there will be more LE raids on AMPs whether repeat or targeting ones that weren't one of the 18 that were raided.
-We could see the closure of some AMPs altogether or changes in ownership of existing ones (from owners wishing to exit the business altogether)
-We could see a mass relocation of AMPs to places that are perceived to be more MP-friendly -or maybe not
-AMPs raided or not will almost certainly see a thinning of staff, as some SPs won't have the stomach to continue in the business but that's an opportunity for new talent to make its way in
-AMPs could start diversifying their staffs (ie hire more caucasian SPs)
-In the short term, some AMPs could reduce prices to draw in more customers
-Longer term and depending on how serious this latest crackdown effort is, the AMPs that remain in business could raise prices to reflect the increased 'risk premium' of being in the business
-AMPs might begin offering more outcall services
-Some SPs could make the jump to work for more 'mainstream' establishments such as Swedish Touch, Temptations, BBC, Fox Den, Madame Cleos, etc.
-the mainstream establishments will almost certainly look to permanently capitalize on this latest saga via increased marketing and promotions
-Some popular SPs will make the jump to go indy
-Some AMPs owners or SP friends will make the jump into operating a micro
-In the short term, micros could benefit with increased business
-then again, micros could also become the target of the next major crackdown
-We could see more micros popping up in downtown Vanc highrises which offer higher security and surveillance features

Anyone can feel free to add your two cents worth
SFM perhaps you could offer more insight from your "Black Thursday"?

 

[SFMIKE]

My insight:

Golden Flower, by far the best place in all SF (20 - 25 Young ladies lined up on benches, mostly Korean beauties, gone, remodelled and available for lease with all the rooms having had the showers removed--my guess).

8 other places, all with mostly Korean beauties, formerly having line-ups of upwards of 8-10, now with skeletal staffs of 2-3 with what appears to be the mothers of the former ladies in the line-ups. In other words, MILF's, but not 20 somethings, more like 40 somethings.

All the places targeted were mostly Korean staffed and many were deported as it was more of an immigration bust. Therein might be the difference between our Black Thursday and yours. It appears that no illegals were found in BC. But, that might serve as a word of warning to all of you who might feel secure going to the micros now. Since Immigration Canada was involved with your RCMP and no illegals were found, they have no choice but to continue their search and where do you think the next places they will look? The reason I say that is that many months after the initial hits in SF, the attention was shifted south in the SJ/SC area. There many AAMP's (micros) were closed and I am sure that the efforts have not reached the end.

The result has been the opening of more TAMP's (R & T) in SF and they are becomming more popular as an alternative.

Again, all, please think about the young ladies involved. I cannot stress that enough, and be careful out there.

 

[HaywoodJabloemy]

...Things have yet to return to normal here in over 16 months now and my advice is to prepare yourselves for a similar outcome...

The CTV article makes it sound like things were almost back to normal within 2 days. It says all 108 people arrested were released without being charged, at least some of the MPs were open, and the ladies were back to work as usual.

The cops tell the media some bullshit about how they have busted a major people trafficking ring, and the media believe it because they're too dumb or lazy to ask questions or follow up on the story. The two-faced cops are happy because they've made themselves look like heroes while really doing nothing, and everything is to back to normal in a few days. They can do it all again in a year or two, and complain that they need more money from the government to give them enough resources to fight this awful crime.

 

[jimbo2006]

Again, all, please think about the young ladies involved. I cannot stress that enough, and be careful out there.

Thanks for the insight SFM. So does this mean you'll be looking for a new destination to rack up your frequent flier points?

I agree that these young women will have no way to support themselves and their families. If these amps are shut down, the workers will be in a severe financial emergency. And what options? The case workers will offer them job training for minimum wage jobs. What travesty!

Don't many of these women have massage therapist training/background as reported in one news article? They can always offer massage only services with the odd tug job for incalls and offer FS on a strictly outcall basis?

 

[Verb]

here is the report from Richmond Review on some of the local richmond MP that got busted.

http://www.richmondreview.com/portals-code/list.cgi?paper=45&cat=23&id=&more=

 

[Verb]

Police arrest 53 people in massage parlour raids



By Martin van den Hemel
Staff Reporter
Dec 09 2006


In a co-ordinated and simultaneous crackdown in four cities including Richmond, police swooped down Thursday on 17 massage parlours suspected of operating as a front for prostitution and believed to be linked to organized crime and possibly human trafficking.

For Richmond, it was a case of deja vu.

Two massage parlours with a notorious reputation for giving customers a little more for their money than a simple rub down, were searched by police again: Swan Lake Shiatsu on Garden City Road, and Kingdom Massage on Alexandra Road.

Search warrants in hand, officers in half a dozen marked and unmarked police cars busted Swan Lake Shiatsu Thursday evening, and arrested at least four people, including two men and two others who covered their heads as they were marched out the front door.

Richmond RCMP Cpl. Peter Thiessen said 53 arrests were made in Richmond, including 35 women, at five locations.

The other businesses searched were Gun Hoa and Jade Lake—addresses weren’t available for these two locations—and Fu Yun, at 4640 No. 3 Road.

“There is evidence to support allegations of substantial sexual activity at all of the establishments,” said Thiessen, who noted 65 police officers participated in the crackdowns which occurred simultaneously at 6 p.m.

This investigation has police suspecting there are strong links to organized crime, and examining whether human trafficking is involved.

Based on interviews of massage parlour workers by the Chinese daily newspaper Ming Pao, a substantial number of the women who work in Lower Mainland massage parlours as prostitutes are paying off gambling debts to loan sharks.

Thiessen couldn’t confirm that.

“Certainly that’s something that at this point we’re not made aware of, but if people have this information, we’d want to hear from them.”

See Page A5

Police make repeat visit to parlours


From Page A1

At Gun Hoa, four municipal ticket infractions were issued, and there was evidence of sexual activity seized on Thursday night, according to police.

Evidence of possible sexual activity was also seized from Jade Lake—which was issued a bylaw infraction ticket—Swan Lake and Kingdom Massage during the raids. Swan Lake was also hit with a bylaw ticket.

Thiessen said police were able to obtain court-issued search warrants as a result of intelligence and information gathered by them in recent months.

City of Richmond spokesperson Ted Townsend said a city business licence inspector accompanied Richmond RCMP officers during the raids.

Townsend said a report about the crackdown will be presented to council, but city officials don’t want to interfere with the police investigation and any possible criminal charges that might stem from the searches.

“We’ll be looking at the operations here and making appropriate recommendations,” which could include licence suspensions and possible licence terminations, Townsend said.

In Coquitlam, there were four businesses searched, and 18 people arrested, including 12 women.

Three Burnaby businesses were raided, and 10 women arrested.

A total of 28 people were arrested at five Surrey businesses, including 21 women.

Kingdom Massage had its business licence suspended for operating after hours in 2003.

In 2001, Swan Lake’s business licence was suspended by city council after an RCMP officer found a massage room that was locked, and a woman appeared to be putting her clothes back on when the officer was let in.

The City of Richmond enacted strict rules in 2000 to deal with problems observed at massage parlours. The new rules require all massage rooms to remain unlocked and have open windows. There are specific requirements about what women can and cannot wear while working in the massage parlours.

The new rules are believed to have resulted in a drop in massage parlours, from 23 in 2002 to just 14 in 2004.

In 1999, a body rub parlour at No. 4 Road and Steveston Highway had its business licence terminated.

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Cut and paste from the site.

 

[Smother]

Just drove by the old Buffalo Spa.......only to see for second night a closed sign!!
It's over!!!

Jeeeeeeeeez......I wonder how much more busier the other MP's that open will be now! I;m assuming quite a few are shut down.....no??!

 

[SFMIKE]

A common thread between your BT and ours is that in both cases 20+ customers were "detained", not necessarily arrested.

On Myredbook.com nobody to my recollection fessed up to being "caught inside" and so far the same thing appears to be happening in your area. What are the chances that among all these customers not one of them is a poster on PERB? Same thing in the Bay Area. Nobody admitted anything. If ever there was an opportunity to share with others, this might be that chance.

A lot of shame and loss of image among other members might be a cause for the silence. But, here is a suggestion if you were among the 20+ detained: Log on to PERB as a visitor or some kind of non-member and share with the rest. If you fear detection by the Mods because of your computer ID, go to an internet cafe and there you can be as anonymous as you wish to be. But, share, you have a story to tell.

 

[lastniceguy777]

Anyone know the which MP's got hit?
Are the raid's still going on, should people be hesitant of MP's for the time being?