Make lemonade from the rain?

[SirJimmy]

The saying goes "..if life deals you lemons, make lemonade".

We have plenty of rainfall on the West Coast. Should we complain less about the incessant rain, and instead, profit off the stuff?

There are so many places that are running out of fresh water. Almost the entire state of California is in a severe drought. Lake Mead (the lake behind Hoover dam near Las Vegas) is about to hit an all time low this weekend. It hasn't been this empty since it was first filled up back in the 30's. This lake provides water to some 40 million people (for perspective: all of Canada has a smaller population than that). Australia often has water shortages and resorts to desalination of ocean water. If the glaciers in the Rockies keep melting, maybe Canada's breadbasket can be hit with water shortages in the not-too-distant future.

The economics probably don't make it feasible to get our water down to California yet, but you never know what value is placed on fresh water over the next decade or two. If worldwide droughts continue, it may actually become profitable to either ship the water on super tankers or build a pipeline. Water-carrying super tankers can be cheap singled-hulled vessels. Heck, they could be manufactured to be like floating bath tubs with no cover to keep costs down.

So, what is your opinion on large-scale exporting of this precious resource? Keep it to ourselves and out of the hands of multinationals (eg. Nestle) who would probably profit the most while driving up prices for British Columbians? Or share with those who need it, instead of letting it go to waste?

 

[sybian]

I live in a semi-arid climate, and we do all we can to keep our water. I've also seen huge feuds, and disputes over rights to it ,in this area. One of them involved my place here, we store it conserve it, and pump it too any place it needs to go...and thats expensive
Perhaps if we don't sell or share it with the Americans, they may just decide too take it. If they cannot grow their own food, while filling their swimming pools, watering their lawns, or wash their Cadillac's when they want, it may turn into a demand and not a request.
In the Kootenays there is a massive lake in the Assiniboine Mountains that was harvested for hydro power, and the U.S. was bound and determined to pipe that water the few kilometers into Montana..And they almost got away with that one...As a matter of fact they dug the trench right up to the border, and were talking about crossing it.
Desalination would only work for drinking water and not growing food, way too expensive, and not near fast enough.
From my experience on this little place, and using limited water that flows through a creek that I own the rights too...It is a limited renewable resource, but when you allow someone to use it that isn't familiar with it's watersheds, or sources..They waste it ,thinking that nobody will turn off the tap at the other end...And when you do ,they say...We want it back because we've paid for that water....and your not using it anyway ,or you never would have sold it too us in the first place....
And in this case, big brother doesn't like too be pushed back,while you hold a water rights paper in front of you in self defence....It always turns into someone pointing a gun at a neighbor.

 

[westwoody]

It is not going to waste now. "Those who need it" are people in BC right now. Have you ever been to the Okanagan? It's a desert compared to what it was like thirty or forty years ago.

Exporting water is a stupid idea.

 

[bdan]

I just read an article that quoted some Canadian politician as saying that in the near distant future, the problems over water rights will make the debate over the Keystone pipeline seem silly in comparison.

There are more than a few rivers that start in the USA then head into Canada. Add in the Great Lakes.
There is more than a little contention over some treaties that have been in place for over 100 years.
If the USA decides it wants to take it what will we do? Throw rocks?
Think of NAFTA and how well that has worked for us.

 

[Larry Storch]

This has been a concern of mine for some time. Knowing how the government has handled other resources in the past I can only assume they will make the same mistakes with OUR water.I'm not saying don't share/sell it, but don't give it away (Neslte) and make sure the people who own it (not the government whose job it is to manage it) have use and access to it first.
B.C. is essentially a rainforest on the coast of an ocean. There should be NO excuse for a shortage of water here unless it continues to be mismanaged and opportunities ignored. If the city of Vancouver captured the rain fall from the roof tops of half of the commercial buildings from mid Sept to mid May they would run out of places to store it. Not that there is any place to store it now. Obviously this may not be used as potable water, but I am sure there are other uses for it. Unfortunately the entire water system of almost every city/town is set up to transport/use potable water for everything from drinking to flushing our toilets. It would take an over haul or a retrofit of an existing infrastructure to make use of rain water even if it were filtered and treated. I don't think desalination would be a wise economic choice.

http://www.theprovince.com/news/Outrage+boils+over+government+plans+sell+groundwater+million+litres/10865416/story.html

Under the old Water Act, Nestlé, like other groundwater users, didn’t need to pay the government anything for water withdrawals. But under the WSA, Nestlé will start paying for the hundreds of millions of litres of groundwater they withdraw, bottle and sell. That rate of $2.25 per million litres — the highest industrial rate in the new price structure — means Nestlé will pay the government $596.25 a year for 265 million litres.

Under the WSA, Nestlé and other groundwater users also will begin paying permit fees. A Nestlé executive said he expects the annual fee for water-bottling companies to be between $1,000 and $10,000.

I feel in the not too distant future we will be looking at some very difficult choices and I really hope our government makes the right ones. Canadians first. Yeah that sounds a bit nationalistic, but we can't afford to waste a resource which is rapidly becoming scarce in the rest of the world. Don't think people haven't noticed the almost endless supply we have.

I didn't want to post a huge image in the forum, so here is a link.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1b/Canada_BC_lakes_map.png

(Ctrl + on your keyboard to see a larger image)

 

[bdan]

Larry Storch:
I generally agree with you but I think you are mistaken in some of your assumptions. I assume you live in the lower mainland.

B.C. is essentially a rainforest on the coast of an ocean.

Um, well, not quite. While B.C. DOES have a very long coastal footprint, over 75% of it isn't influenced by said coast.
And while I'll agree that the deal with Nestle makes a mockery of the notion that the government should protect the resources for the people, you have to realize that a hole dug 500 m long and 100 m wide and 5 m deep would hold 222,250,001 liters. So in the grand scheme ... it isn't that big a deal.

EDIT: People have been paying permit fees for water usage in Canada for years. Google P.F.R.A.

 

[Larry Storch]

Larry Storch:
I generally agree with you but I think you are mistaken in some of your assumptions. I assume you live in the lower mainland. Um, well, not quite. While B.C. DOES have a very long coastal footprint, over 75% of it isn't influenced by said coast.
And while I'll agree that the deal with Nestle makes a mockery of the notion that the government should protect the resources for the people, you have to realize that a hole dug 500 m long and 100 m wide and 5 m deep would hold 222,250,001 liters. So in the grand scheme ... it isn't that big a deal.

EDIT: People have been paying permit fees for water usage in Canada for years. Google P.F.R.A.

I'm on the Island (surrounded by water).True enough, the whole province isn't exactly a rainforest. My point (kinda overstated I admit) is the amount of rain we get isn't being taken advantage of to the fullest extent. True, in the grand scheme it isn't that big of a deal, but that's current. I feel things will change in the not too distant future.

(nice to know some people generally agree with me)

 

[sybian]

I live at 3200 ft. above sea level, and my water comes from snow run off at about 5000 feet.
In most years I can't get to that elevation till June...I could ride through that high country a month ago.
The Southern Interior will have a water shortage this year, and with that will come forest fires, higher hay prices, higher beef prices, and possibly higher hydro prices.
I'd hate too see whats happening in India. The farmers there have to drill water wells eighty feet deeper on a yearly basis...To them it's just a cost of doing business.
The water table in the U.S. has dropped about 13 feet over the last decade, they have reached their sustainable threshold.
The mighty Colorado river by the time it reaches Mexico is turned into a garden hose trickle into the sand...It never even reaches the ocean. It too has over reached it's sustainability.
For the U.S. there is no other option ,but too divert water from neighboring sources.
We have it, and they need it too grow the food for their population.
There has also been some talk about charging ,or taxing Canadian residents who have water wells for their water rights.
I know that my water system cost me about 18 thousand to install before it got to the faucets, and I pay a bi-annual fee for water rights to draw irrigation water from the creek to irrigate my hay fields...and they are talking about metering the amount drawn through my 4 inch feed pipe.
Up here, even though we get a slightly lower rate of power for irrigation, water has already become an expensive resource, and over the past few years the Government has began to tighten their grip on it.

 

[escapefromstress]

A few years ago, I was deeply grieved to hear that Big White mountain was hoping to tap into the Kettle River for water to service the huge development up there, because the river was already running dangerously low most years.

I used to be very naive about our water sources, and assumed there were endless Artensian wells on the mountain tops to feed the lakes eternally ... but now I know how finite our water supply really is.

We should be preserving rain water every chance we get. One of our entrepreneurs should get on that.

 

[sybian]

Mister Storch also makes a good point...Why are we using potable drinking quality water to flush our toilets, water landscaping, or wash our cars.
Restructuring a cities water supply would be costly for two water quality sources for every residence....But it kinda seems it would be one way to use unconsumable water off rooftops, that just runs into storm drain systems.

 

[hornygandalf]

I live at 3200 ft. above sea level, and my water comes from snow run off at about 5000 feet.
In most years I can't get to that elevation till June...I could ride through that high country a month ago.
The Southern Interior will have a water shortage this year, and with that will come forest fires, higher hay prices, higher beef prices, and possibly higher hydro prices.
I'd hate too see whats happening in India. The farmers there have to drill water wells eighty feet deeper on a yearly basis...To them it's just a cost of doing business.
The water table in the U.S. has dropped about 13 feet over the last decade, they have reached their sustainable threshold.
The mighty Colorado river by the time it reaches Mexico is turned into a garden hose trickle into the sand...It never even reaches the ocean. It too has over reached it's sustainability.
For the U.S. there is no other option ,but too divert water from neighboring sources.
We have it, and they need it too grow the food for their population.
There has also been some talk about charging ,or taxing Canadian residents who have water wells for their water rights.
I know that my water system cost me about 18 thousand to install before it got to the faucets, and I pay a bi-annual fee for water rights to draw irrigation water from the creek to irrigate my hay fields...and they are talking about metering the amount drawn through my 4 inch feed pipe.
Up here, even though we get a slightly lower rate of power for irrigation, water has already become an expensive resource, and over the past few years the Government has began to tighten their grip on it.

Although there has been some low-level conflict over water in Africa, there is potential for much larger confrontations in the future. There are doco's about this (see http://www.watercache.com/blog/2011/10/must-see-water-documentaries-provide-insight-into-future-water-crisis/ for a list of some). I used to show Blue Gold - World Water Wars in one of my classes a few years ago to get students to start them thinking about the issue. We are relatively well-off in Canada... at the moment, but that won't last, particularly with the damage being wrought with the oilsands and fracking.

Singapore is interesting to look at in terms of water and how it built a system to be self-sufficient with water (you can drink the waste water there, due to the cleansing and purification it has gone through). In part, this was for security reasons in the event they ended up in war with Malaysia, which was their original source of water.

 

[escapefromstress]

Bill Gates drinks water distilled from human faeces

Bill Gates has drunk a glass of water made from human faeces, to showcase technology he said could provide clean water in the developing world. The Microsoft founder said he wanted to begin sending processing plants around the world after tests later this year.

The project was welcomed by WaterAid, which said that it could particularly help in urban areas. According to the charity, some 748 million people worldwide lack clean drinking water.

In a video posted on his blog, Mr Gates watched as the human waste was fed into the processor, before drinking the end product from a glass. "The water tasted as good as any I've had out of a bottle. And having studied the engineering behind it, I would happily drink it every day. It's that safe," he wrote in the blogpost.

In the video, the developer of the Omniprocessor system, Peter Janicki, says the raw "sewer sludge" is first boiled, during which process the water vapour is separated from the solids. Those solids are then put into a fire, producing steam that drives an engine producing electricity for the system's processor and for the local community. The water is put through a cleaning system to produce drinking water.

"Why would anyone want to turn waste into drinking water and electricity?" Gates asked. The answer, he wrote, was because "diseases caused by poor sanitation kill some 700,000 children every year, and they prevent many more from fully developing mentally and physically". He added: "If we can develop safe, affordable ways to get rid of human waste, we can prevent many of those deaths and help more children grow up healthy."

Video of Bill Gates drinking the water here: http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-30709273

 

[hornygandalf]

Bill Gates drinks water distilled from human faeces

Video of Bill Gates drinking the water here: http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-30709273

Thanks for adding this...

 

[sybian]

.............And you all think I'm a Redneck because I own and operate a still.

 

[Fullhouse]

.............And you all think I'm a Redneck because I own and operate a still.

sybian, I don't think you're a Redneck, unless .....................



1. You let your 14-year-old daughter smoke at the dinner table in front of her kids.

2. The Blue Book value of your truck goes up and down depending on how much gas is in it.

3. You've been married three times and still have the same in-laws.

4. You think a woman who is out of your league bowls on a different night.

5. You wonder how service stations keep their rest-rooms so clean.

6. Someone in your family died right after saying, 'Hey, guys, watch this.'

7. You think Dom Perignon is a mafia leader.

8. Your wife's hairdo was once ruined by a ceiling fan.

9. Your junior prom offered day care

10. You think the last words of the Star-Spangled Banner are 'Gentlemen, start your engines.'

11. You lit a match in the bathroom and your house exploded right off its wheels.

12. The Halloween pumpkin on your porch has more teeth than your spouse.

13. You have to go outside to get something from the fridge.

14. One of your kids was born on a pool table.

15. You need one more hole punched in your card to get a freebie at the House of Tattoos.

16. You can't get married to your sweetheart because there's a law against it.


17. You think loading the dishwasher means getting your wife drunk.

 

[sybian]

Ha !!....Only 14 out of the 17 hit home.....The sad part is ,I don't find that disturbing.

 

[Larry Storch]

.............And you all think I'm a Redneck because I own and operate a still.

Well it depends on what you are distilling. If you took a dip from the out house and ran it, you'd be an "innovator" or eccentric (depends what crowd you run with).

And I only flash on the "Redneck" label when I see you typing "And you all" (y'all?)

fullhouse: 14 and 17 apply. :thumb:

 

[sybian]

This cowboy has no desire to be an outhouse innovator, and I'd also like to add that the term "Redneck" around here, is not a derogatory term, but a compliment...So thank you.....I also have found that this is a good place to hide from that other thread.
I'm afraid if Lucey Lake calls me out on the handle, or nickname I've chosen, I may die a slow and painful death.... Dehydration is a hell of a way to go.

 

[hornygandalf]

This cowboy has no desire to be an outhouse innovator, and I'd also like to add that the term "Redneck" around here, is not a derogatory term, but a compliment...So thank you.....I also have found that this is a good place to hide from that other thread.
I'm afraid if Lucey Lake calls me out on the handle, or nickname I've chosen, I may die a slow and painful death.... Dehydration is a hell of a way to go.

You're not up to being ridden instead of being the rider I thought she likes a good challenge... if it doesn't loosen her money machine.

 

[sybian]

Tell you what Gandolf...I'll send you a set of spurs with a cross engraved on them with silver.
I'll sand down the rough spots on an old lariat, a good set old batwing chaps.
When you get them in the mail, you take Lucey for a ride and if you survive that hate fuck challenge banging she'll give you...Let me know how it goes.
You've just been voluntold as my pick-up rider. So when you tie your fist onto her backside, just remember to use a good slip knot...Every cowboy needs an escape plan for self preservation.
Just think of it as your doing us all a favor....Like drilling the pilot hole for the rest of us.