Live 8

[LonelyGhost]

I agree that this is indeed true. but it is also true in the third world as well where one does not get to talk about the "first few years" but is instead reduced to talking about the first few days or weeks of a child's life.

all the more reason that 'foreign aid' should start with birth control programs.

and if you read about the conditions under which Aboriginal Peoples live in Canada, it makes the whole 'third world' situation a pathetic joke!

if i have to help someone then at the very least let it be a Canadian first ... and if i have a choice, then let it be Aboriginal Peoples first.

this is just more 'smoke and mirrors' from bleeding heart liberals and federal incompetent liberals to take the emphasis off the problems we have in Canada that should be fixed first.

and btw: how much did DeBeers pay to African nations in compensation? When they have paid a 'fair share' then I will consider it ...

 

[luckydog71]

Wow….I am surprised at the number of posts that have the same general idea.

I agree it takes money to fix this problem, but it also takes an organization who knows how to get the most out of the money they have.

I think the Tsunami disaster maybe be an example of how to make that happen. In the US at least as much money came from sources other than government. I made a cash contribution, but I made it to the Canadian Red Cross. In my opinion the American Red Cross badly handled the WTC relief money and I was not willing to give them any more.

For some reason that I can not support with examples, I just felt the Canadian Red Cross was my best chance to have my money make the biggest impact.

I would like to see an assessment of how effective that relief effort was. What is their life like now? Have they gone far on the road to recovery? Our news agencies have dropped the whole story and it is too bad because I think there are lessons to be learned from the way the world reacted.

 

[lenharper]

I am sorry but I do not agree that all the people of Africa are the authors of thier own misfortunate. Those unfortunate enough to be born in a country ruled by a despot who they have no means to otherthrow are, in my opinion, victims from birth -- it is akin to blaming the Kurds for being gassed by Saddam Hussian or the Cambodians for being murdered by Pol Pot.

Those who are unable to acess medical supplies are tagged for death and I believe it is in the hands of the stewards of the world to at least attempt to alleviate the suffering. There is obviously no easy answer to the problem but to ignore it is (to steal a phrase from the Gates foundation) to turn your back on your fellow human beings.

I apologize if I sound holier than thou. I am certainly no angel and have ignored suffering in both this country and abroad and will undoubtedly do so again but I do hope I can conduct myself better than, say, "debeers" and the fact that they have ignored and exploited is no reason for me to do the same.

 

[greenvalley]

One of the main reasons Africa is the mess that it is, is corruption. You cancel the debts, and those bastard politicians will just spend it all again like a bunch of crack addicts.

When is Africa going to be part of fixing Africa?

For example Zimbabwe has starving people, that aren't starving because we didn't send enough food. They are starving because Mugabe ran off and in some cases killed the white farmers. He also diverts food and aid from any part of the country that opposes them. Now you would think that other African countries would try to do something about a guy like this? But no! South Africa is their biggest trading partner, they have done nothing. People have tried to get South Africa to do something. Amnesty International wrote the following letter to the South African president:


Zimbabwe must implement the African Commission's Recommendations

18 March 2005

Dear President Mbeki

We, the undersigned, wish to express to you our grave concern about the continuing abuse of human rights in Zimbabwe . We are asking all members of the African Union (AU) to call publicly on the Government of Zimbabwe to implement in full the recommendations made by the African Commission on Human and Peoples' Rights in the report of its 2002 Fact-Finding Mission to Zimbabwe .
--------------
The African Commission Fact-Finding Mission visited Zimbabwe in June 2002 and the AU adopted the Commission's findings and recommendations in January 2005. The Fact-Finding Mission took place in the context of Zimbabwe 's obligations under the African Charter on Human and Peoples' Rights, to which it is party.

In its report, the African Commission concluded that “ human rights violations occurred in Zimbabwe ”. The Commission made several substantive recommendations for action by the Government of Zimbabwe. T he majority of the human rights concerns documented by the African Commission Fact-Finding Mission in 2002 remain serious problems today.
http://www.amnesty.org.za/letter_mbeki.htm
----------------------

Yet this still goes on:

----------------------
Zimbabwe: More deaths as mass evictions continue unabated
Children in Zimbabwe left homeless by government's house destruction operation
© Solidarity Peace Trust
Press release, 06/30/2005

Amnesty International has received information that at least three have died -- including a pregnant woman and a four-year-old child -- during a chaotic mass eviction at least 10,000 people from Porta Farm, an informal settlement on the outskirts of Harare established by the government more than 10 years ago.

“Over the last 48 hours, Porta Farm – a settlement of at least 10,000 people -- has been obliterated. People have watched their lives being completely destroyed – and many are now being forcibly removed in trucks by police. At the moment we are not sure where they are being taken,” said Kolawole Olaniyan, Director of Amnesty International’s Africa Programme.
http://news.amnesty.org/index/ENGAFR460212005

_------------------

They don't need money as much as they need a backbone. The African Union, needs to do something more than push paper and provide a place for them to make speeches. Politicians are definitely not the answer; Bono needs a wake up call. I will bet anyone that money spent through small efforts, by small organizations will beat some bunch of politicos any day. If they really wanted to forgive debt. One Idea would be to take the African countries respective debt payments and circulate them back through small organizations in that country, but don't give a blank check to a politician.

 

[BushPilot]

I find it so shockingly predictable that the same ones that are on this board saying basically that the Africans can go fuck themselves because they are ruled by despotic, corrupt, embezzling, murdering, dictators, so we shouldn't cancel their debt or send more aid, are the same ones who are on here almost daily talking about how we had to 'free' Iraq from Saddam Hussein, who was a despotic, corrupt, embezzling, murdering dictator, and we had to cancel the Iraqi debt so that the Iraqi people can have a chance at democracy and freedom. So, tell us all, Hifisex, Luckydog71, hornydude, et al, do you support military intervention in these African states to rid them of evil dictators and give THEIR people the same chances that you were all so desperate that we provide for Iraq? Or are we going to go back to the 'we had to go into Iraq because Saddam had WMDs and was working with al Qaeda and masterminded 9/11' justifications? I have just written two incredibly long, run on sentences. Look what you've lead me to.

 

[mick_eight]

Hey len harper, If u do some research on pol pot in cambodia,u will find that the start of the problem there was the yanks bombing the shit out of them and telling the american people and rest of world they didn't do it,pol pot came out of the ashes.

 

[luckydog71]

BP - I think you miss read my post. I am in favor of fixing the problem; I could not imagine anyone not wanting the problem fixed. I am even willing to spend money (my money) to help. What I oppose is the current fix; throw more money (or forgive the debt so they can borrow more money).

The definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

You probably don't realize it but you and Bush are of the same opinion. Bush said yesterday that the way to help end poverty is through establishing a democratic government.

I think he would be willing to commit US troops to such an undertaking, but only after he finishes with Syria and Iran.

 

[luckydog71]

I know I will be accused of cherry picking my quotes, and you would be right. I had to look hard to find any quotes that were not about the concert and the fact is was the biggest concert ever or the best concert ever. The organizers focused on the wrong thing. Who gives a shit that this is the first time Pink Floyd was together since 1981. I thought this was about ending poverty. Why don’t they use their money to bring together some smart people to come up with solution?

Anyway here is the quote I got off CNN’s web site.

"Throwing money at African governments is not the answer," the brother of South African President Thabo Mbeki wrote, Reuters reported.

 

[dexi]

If you throw enough conditions in the way (fix our own problems first, remove all the dictators, educate them on birth control, blah blah blah), you can avoid ever actually having to do anything. And hey, if all of your initial conditions are eventually met, you can surely come up with some new ones. Piece o' cake.

and if you read about the conditions under which Aboriginal Peoples live in Canada, it makes the whole 'third world' situation a pathetic joke!

 

[Makhno]

Getting back to the music side.......

The definite highlight for me (other than seeing the Who perform again) was the Pink Floyd reunion. For a band that hasn't played together since 1981, they were tight and together. Their talent hasn't waned over the years, although you'd probably struggle to recognize them if you stumbled upon them in a bar today.

Pink Floyd at Live 8, and in their prime.​

 

[hornydude]

Yes..to part of the question

I find it so shockingly predictable that the same ones that are on this board saying basically that the Africans can go fuck themselves because they are ruled by despotic, corrupt, embezzling, murdering, dictators, so we shouldn't cancel their debt or send more aid, are the same ones who are on here almost daily talking about how we had to 'free' Iraq from Saddam Hussein, who was a despotic, corrupt, embezzling, murdering dictator, and we had to cancel the Iraqi debt so that the Iraqi people can have a chance at democracy and freedom. So, tell us all, Hifisex, Luckydog71, hornydude, et al, do you support military intervention in these African states to rid them of evil dictators and give THEIR people the same chances that you were all so desperate that we provide for Iraq? Or are we going to go back to the 'we had to go into Iraq because Saddam had WMDs and was working with al Qaeda and masterminded 9/11' justifications? I have just written two incredibly long, run on sentences. Look what you've lead me to.

Yes, you write run on sentences.

Yes, I think some African countries do warrant military intervention. Sudan begs for it. Rwanda needed it (but it's too late). Zimbabwe would be better off if the US Marines swooped in and killed Mugabe. In the Congo 4 million people died in their recent civil war, and Western powers could have intervened. We should never have pulled out of Somalia. The problem is that there is little of strategic or economic value in these places. I concede that "freedom loving" people like Dubbya pick and choose their battles where there are resources at stake, but I tend to see this as pragmatism. If the West tried to fix every broken country militarily the challenge would be overwhelming.

Btw, wasn't it Bush 41 that went into Somalia and put US personnel at risk for strictly humanitarian reasons, but Bill Clinton who pulled them out after the "Black Hawk Down" episode, leaving a whole lo of innocent Somalis to the tender mercies of famine and militias? How do you explain that, BushPilot? I thought conservatives only fought for oil, and liberals were the great liberators of the oppressed?

 

[LonelyGhost]

I find it so shockingly predictable that the same ones that are on this board saying basically that the Africans can go fuck themselves because they are ruled by despotic, corrupt, embezzling, murdering, dictators, so we shouldn't cancel their debt or send more aid, are the same ones who are on here almost daily talking about how we had to 'free' Iraq from Saddam Hussein, who was a despotic, corrupt, embezzling, murdering dictator, and we had to cancel the Iraqi debt so that the Iraqi people can have a chance at democracy and freedom. So, tell us all, Hifisex, Luckydog71, hornydude, et al, do you support military intervention in these African states to rid them of evil dictators and give THEIR people the same chances that you were all so desperate that we provide for Iraq? Or are we going to go back to the 'we had to go into Iraq because Saddam had WMDs and was working with al Qaeda and masterminded 9/11' justifications? I have just written two incredibly long, run on sentences. Look what you've lead me to.

i don't support the war in iraq to protect oil interests at all ... but i do support the people who have to go over there and do their job.

both the US and Canada went to Somalia and it did no good for anyone ... except a lot of Somalis immigrated to Canada and many of them were war criminals ...

the thing for me is simply that even if we turned over all the 'wealth' of our two nations, it wouldn't make a dent in thousands of years of the bullshit that has been going on in Africa even before us imperialistic whites arrived there!

and never mind the millions canada gave to china, why does our government give money to GM, Ford, Bombardier, Air Canada, etc etc etc etc etc??? and then lets its own people pay more in taxes than in housing?!?!

totally nuts!

 

[therealrex]

I'm still waiting to see all those billions in Tsunami aid get used what percentage of that cash is going to rebuilding peoples lives 5% ?

 

[dexi]

I'm still waiting to see all those billions in Tsunami aid get used what percentage of that cash is going to rebuilding peoples lives 5% ?

What story do you think the press runs with? The one about how everything working out exactly as it's supposed to? Or the "alleged" one about scandal and corruption and siphoning of charitable funds?

Newsmedia doesn't even seem to need to verify sources anymore. Plus, much of people's "news" comes from internet "journalism" (which has the validity of the scribblings on the shithouse wall). Or worse, mainstream news uses some website as a "source" and goes with a story knowing full well it's (at best) suspicious.

Add it up and you have a society where most people talk more or less constantly out of their asses.

 

[FuZzYknUckLeS]

I dunno man...
I see all these old bands reuniting for this concert and suddenly I feel SO FUCKING OLD!!!!

 

[BushPilot]

Should we talk about the thousands fishing families who have been prevented from rebuilding their destroyed homes after the tsunami, because western-based, and funded NGOs have deemed that their way of life does not constitute 'positive economic impact?' These NGOs have fast-tracked approval for multinationals to use their beachfront properties to build holiday resorts, though. That is what is deemed to be 'positive economic impact.' I'm sure that those former self-sufficient fishing families will be welcome to come and work for piss poor wages washing the dirty laundry of the west's rich at these new resorts. Don't kid yourself when you think that what we give poor nations in the form of foreign aid is simple charity. We take far more away from these countries through unfair trade restrictions in exchange for those funds.

 

[tao]

$12,000 goodie bags given out in Philly

X 12000

The performers at the Live 8 show in Philadelphia are getting thousands of dollars in gifts. The Philadelphia Inquirer reports that celebrities at the event will be given designer suits, satellite radio subscriptions, Gibson guitars, $125 ties, $330 sweat suits and watches worth between $1,500 and $6,000. Total worth: $12,000.

Link

I wonder if Sir Bob will speak out against this, just as he has frequently criticized G8 leaders for their luxurious summits??

I will give Sir Bob credit for championing a cause ... but the cynic in me thinks that many of the participants showed up to get free exposure to further their current tours and albums.

Sorry Bob ... but Rock and Roll cannot solve a problem as complex as starvation in Africa.

Finally a perspective from Africa:

Live 8 was baffling and offensive

July 5, 2005

Africans feel humiliated by the image of their wondrous continent as lost and in need of white prophets, writes Yasmin Alibhai-Brown
Link

All in all, I would say that was a giant swing and a miss for Live 8.

 

[luckydog71]

X 12000

The performers at the Live 8 show in Philadelphia are getting thousands of dollars in gifts. The Philadelphia Inquirer reports that celebrities at the event will be given designer suits, satellite radio subscriptions, Gibson guitars, $125 ties, $330 sweat suits and watches worth between $1,500 and $6,000. Total worth: $12,000.

Tao, thanks for bring this up. I read that a few days ago, about the performers receiving gift bags. How hypocritical. How many families could be fed for the 12,000 the bag cost? What possible value could a 12,000 dollar bag of shit have to a rock star?

This whole thing was about making rich people feel good. They need to say they participated. They need to say they had good intentions.

It does not matter that the US has spend milti- billions of dollars trying to help those countries, the message is spend more.

Let’s measure relative wealth. Let’s take Madonna, me and the poorest of people in Africa.

Net worth of Madonna = 50 million
Net worth of me = let’s say ½ million
Net worth of an African = $500

The difference in the net worth between the African and me is 450 thousand dollars. I have 450 thousand more money than the African.

The difference between me and Madonna is 49.5 million dollars. She has 49 million more money than I do.

She gets up on stage and promotes a message that says I need to pay more money to support Africa. Fuck off bitch.Please come back and talk to me once you have spent 49 million towards fixing poverty in Africa.

The hypocrisy of those idiots is amazing. Yet the liberals don’t get it. They buy into the shit hook, line and sinker.

 

[LonelyGhost]

hey LD,

its funny that when i say that the rich should pay, i am a commie pinko bastard ... but it you say the rich should pay then you are the hero of the downtrodden taxpayer ...

 

[luckydog71]

hey LD,

its funny that when i say that the rich should pay, i am a commie pinko bastard ... but it you say the rich should pay then you are the hero of the downtrodden taxpayer ...

LG you have made my point for me........

I said when Madonna has spent 49 million of her money, come talk to me.....

I said nothing about taxes.


When a "commie pinko" hears spend 49 million he immediately assumes that was in tax dollars. How could anyone spend that much money without a government doing it for them?

A " commie pinko" believes government is the middle man in every single transaction.

A neo-con believes individuals can make a bigger impact than government.

If government spending could solve the worlds problems we would have eliminated, poverty, ignorance, crime, obesity, and global warming....to mention just a few.

The best thing government can do is get the fuck out of the way.