Legal Advice

[trackstar]

Ok, lets say that a friend of mine needs some legal advice for a friend of his friend's friend who is doing a research paper on a HYPOTHETICAL SITUATION!

A (very nice) guy is driving down the road and gets cut off. He honks at the (not nice) guy and gets the finger. Of course he gives the finger back (even though he's nice). They get to a red light and the not nice guy gets out of his car and starts flipping out. He kicks the (very nice) car of the (nice) guy. The (nice) guy gets out of his car (fuck) and approaches the (not nice) guy.

Now the not nice guy is a large man and is flipping out, but the (nice) guy does not back down. They start to fight (fuck). The (nice) guy lands one and the (not nice) guy goes down to one knee. While down there, he "May" have taken a kick to the jaw, but as the (NOT NICE) guy fell back, he hit his head on his bumper and got knocked out.

Being a "Nice guy" (and a little freaked out that the not nice guy could be hurt), he called an ambulance. The ambulance and police attended. The police took statements, the ambulance took the (REALLY NOT NICE) man to the hospital (He was regaining consciousness as they left). No charges were pressed at that time, as the (Not nice) guy still needed to make a statement.

Was this simply a mutually agreed upon fair fight? Self defense? Will there be repercussions for getting out of the car? Do you have the right to defend your car? Just curious, as this is JUST A HYPOTHETICAL SITUATION!

 

[schizo_man]

even with a consentual (not really sure what a consensual fight is, but I'd like to try it with a sp some time) fight, both parties can be charged.

 

[pokemon]

Even if it were a consensual fight it can still be assault -tell your friend of a friend to talk to a criminal law lawyer.

 

[mick_eight]

If two people agree to fight they won't be charged for assault. But if cops want they can charge both with causing a destrubence [sp] in a public place by fighting. I had a friend same thing. Cost him $250 and days work. No use lawyering up. If no priors , plead guilty pay the money and forget it. Or spend $5000 and maybe get off. Depends if you're fanatic about clean slate or not.

 

[visiting]

Will there be repercussions for getting out of the car?

Wait a minute, your Nice guy, has changed name, to---> not smart guy.

Short answer is yes, if you get out of your car, your not defending nothing, the judge will say, why did you not drive away? If your blocked in, and can't move they you have no choice, but if you can move...... you could have a case for self defence......... but

There are a few questions, it is not as easy as that, but the judge would call both guys idiots.

 

[visiting]

PS. that will be 325$ please......






Nice guy......

 

[trackstar]

Wait a minute, your Nice guy, has changed name, to---> not smart guy.

Short answer is yes, if you get out of your car, your not defending nothing, the judge will say, why did you not drive away? If your blocked in, and can't move they you have no choice, but if you can move...... you could have a case for self defence......... but

There are a few questions, it is not as easy as that, but the judge would call both guys idiots.

LEGAL advice, my friend, Legal. Moral judgments not needed And if you're going to tell someone that they are not smart, make sure you get your grammar in check

 

[trackstar]

PS. that will be $350.00 please......

 

[visiting]

LEGAL advice, my friend, Legal. Moral judgments not needed And if you're going to tell someone that they are not smart, make sure you get your grammar in check

LOL,

That's a good catch , I will give you a $25 discount.... I would have given you 50$ if you would have found the other mistake....

meanwhile........ pay up now.....

 

[trackstar]

Wait a minute, your, "Nice guy" has changed names to, "Not Smart Guy".

The short answer is yes, if you get out of your car, you're not defending anything. The judge would say, "Why did you not drive away?". If you're blocked in and can't move, then you have no choice; but if you can move you, do not have a case for self defense.

There are a few questions that I have, as it is not as simple as that, but (I believe) the judge would call both guys idiots.

Well, there were actually several, but I didn't want to make you feel bad

 

[Pantherdash]

I would have to say there is no such thing as a consensual fight. I mean, at what point do two people agree to fight, unless it is so obviously a play fight? I would tend to agree with the above poster who wrote that if nice guy had a choice to drive off (unless there were substantial damages to the car and even then he could just remember the plate number and drive off) then he should've done that instead to defuse the situation. Of course, your state of mind at the time is very confusing so you may not make the most rational choices. The police usually turn these kinds of fights over to detectives who try to determine who was the primary aggressor and weather the opponent fought in self-defense or with malice in mind. This would be the way I would decide the case. Maybe talk to a lawyer.

Panther

 

[mick_eight]

Of course there is such thing as a consensual fight. If neither party makes an effort to escape the situation and allow it to escalate it is consensual.

I have been in this situation a few times where the cops have been contacted. So long as you continually insist that the other party was pushing you towards a fight AND THERE WERE NO OTHER WITNESSES OR EVIDENCE TO THE CONTRARY, the cops will drop the issue.

You said that the cops "usually turn these kinds of fights over to detectives..."?!?!?! C'mon buddy You've watched too many tv programs. The cops deal with so many fights each and every single day that they could never be bothered.

Unless there was a serious injury there will never be a file opened, never mind an investigation started.

BS. If they want, you both will be charged with CDPP, its a lock. LE gets 2 convictions, numbers go up for them. I've seen it happen many times. LE don't care who started it, they will charge both to teach them not to be shitheads next time.

 

[Pantherdash]

Of course there is such thing as a consensual fight. If neither party makes an effort to escape the situation and allow it to escalate it is consensual.

I have been in this situation a few times where the cops have been contacted. So long as you continually insist that the other party was pushing you towards a fight AND THERE WERE NO OTHER WITNESSES OR EVIDENCE TO THE CONTRARY, the cops will drop the issue.

You said that the cops "usually turn these kinds of fights over to detectives..."?!?!?! C'mon buddy You've watched too many tv programs. The cops deal with so many fights each and every single day that they could never be bothered.

Unless there was a serious injury there will never be a file opened, never mind an investigation started.

I'm usually the one that tells people they have a skewed US TV version of the way Canadian police deal with cases. But I guess you're right that if it's not severe enough or high profile enough, like the assault on that gay man as a possible hate crime a couple of weeks ago, they don't usually pursue these cases. The costs are just too high and they are understaffed as it is. BUT if it is serious the VPD Robbery and Assault Squad and their detectives investigate it, instead of the general patrol division. Since he mentioned that he was knocked out and possible brain injury MAY result it is possible that this case is serious enough to make its way to court, so don't YOU go jumping to conclusions there, Matlock.

Panther

 

[schizo_man]

Bingo....this guy knows his stuff. As for mick6, have another warm glass of milk and enjoy dream land.

I've known some RCMP in rural Alberta to charge both sides. Perhaps when it's in the cities it's different, I don't know. Perhaps because of the volume of fights it would be unpossible to charge everybody

 

[mick_eight]

They can't be bothered buddy. When's the last time you've ever heard of two guys in a fight getting charged??? There are countless fights each and every single day everywhere. You're dreaming.

I've been in this situation myself a few times. THEY WON'T BOTHER unless the injuries were serious.

Maybe in the city. The RC will charge both in small town Canada. Go try, you'll find out how wrong you are , real fast.

 

[susi]

the crowne must prove "intent" to find you guilty of assault.

so, in this situation you merely reacted to an attack, no intent, not guilty

 

[susi]

no, there's still no provable intent
a person could argue that the guy was still a threat as he was large and could have stood up and continued fighting.

my girlfriend hit a chick in the head with a beer bottle after the chick punched her and was aquitted based on intent. it's the defence fighters use when they go too far in a fight because of their training. once you are defending yourself there is no intent.

same with battered wife symdrom, if she kills her abuser even when he's not actually assaulting her, like in his sleep- it's still self defence, not guilty

it's about perceived threat, know what i mean?

happy thanks giving by theway!!

 

[mick_eight]

When you say "RC", do you mean RCMP? The cops can't charge anyone. They only arrest and can advance a file to crown counsel.

I get the feeling a lot of people are confused on the difference between being arrested and charged.

Who the fuck cares about getting arrested? Its when a guy gets charged (or knows there is a good enough case he can be charged) when you really need to be concerned.

I'm pretty certain that I'm not the one who's wrong here buddy.

Like I said go try ,you'll find out how wrong u are.You are the one confused. Small town cops like to send a message to the people. Also they do charge people , Crown counsel travel around to small towns and only see the file just beore court. Talk about someting you know a little more then this.Or move to a small town for awhile and see how the rest of the country lives.

 

[mick_eight]

You are right. Its my mistake on the terminology.

Its when crown decides to "prosecute" is when a person needs to be concerned...that is the term I had intended to use and was the point I was trying to make.

The police do "lay charges" but really that isn't the major concern because they "lay charges" and make accusations all the time that are unfounded.

Again...the major concern is if the crown decides to prosecute because they feel they have a case.

I understand about big city cops ,you're 100% right on, in regards to what is considered a crime to them. In small towns it a whole new ball game. RCMP there have trouble getting numbers to look good, so will take anything they can get to look good to the bean counters. That's why they will charge both with CDPP and they already have the evidence because both admit to the fight. If it was in house your're right nothing would happen but in public small town they will send message to town folk because everyone knows about it, and if they do nothing word spreads quick. Nice exchange . Have a great day

 

[trackstar]

Ok, Saturday is a good day! No charges laid on either side (It was either we both press charges or neither of us do, our choice).

Let me make things clear, driving off was not an option. We were at a red light and he was in front of me. When he was freaking out on me, I was laughing my ass off. When he kicked my car, that was it.

When I got out of the car, I was fucking furious. When I got face to chest with him, I said a couple of the same words at myself that he did.

For the kick to the head, when he went down to one knee, he was definitely going to get back up and I'll be damned if I wanted to be eye level with his chest again, so I made sure that he stayed down. Special thanks to the assist by the bumper, chrome polish on me.

I'm not a goon, but the way I grew up, running from a fight didn't happen. If you did, so much worse would happen from so many more people once word got out. You know those obsessive dads that teach you how to fight when you're 3, put you in boxing and martial arts when your 5 and pulls out the belt if you lose a street fight? As an adult you can make all of the changes in the world, be the nicest guy to people and dedicate your life to helping people, but when your safety is threatened, well, a lot of your past comes back pretty quickly.

Like I said, even though this ass-hole (that is obviously used to intimidating people) got what he deserved, I was genuinely concerned about his safety. I'm still a bit pissed off and have a big dent in my beautiful car, but such is life.

So, in speaking with the police, when it comes to two men fighting, the constipatedbull told me that usually cases are handled in the way that this one was, unless one of the parties continues to be an ass when they attend. In that case, they will arrest him for disturbing the peace or public mischief.

For all of you that were bullied in high school, one down my friends, one down Thanks for the assist guys and dolls