Kesler wants out of Vancouver

fossa021

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Jan 15, 2013
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Love how every person who has had something negative to say last summer or early on this year feels so happy and vindicated as hockey geniuses sitting in their Arm chair GM jobs.

Where was your genius and your comments when we went undefeated in the month of December. Ohh ya nowhere but there's nothing like piling onto a team going through problems, injuries etc since January. Teams have ebbs and flows.

The canucks are out of the playoffs right now. Is that honestly such a bad thing? Teams need to build loose players, rebuild as their core group gets older. Happens with every team.

Out of the playoffs Last time I checked so were Edmonton , Calgary and Winnipeg. More than likely and hopefully Toronto too.

Our core group has gone through major injuries this year, as well as now being mired in a record slump. All one can hope for is that they settle down start playing for each other and come out of this.

At the very least if they don't make the playoffs it's really no big deal.

A draft placement in the first 10 teams may net them some special player. Next season and beyond Players like Horvat, Shinkaruk, Guance and Jensen will be pressed to make roster spots thats not a bad thing.

This season moving into the Pacific Division this year against great teams like Anaheim, LA Kings and San Jose and playing against them more has affected our standing certainly.

Vancouver was an Elite team in 2010 2011 seasons however they've been on a decline since then. Everybody knew it was going to be a transitional year and we'd see where we would be at the end of it. New Coach, New Systems, New Division against harder opponents.

In the West St Louis has gotten better, the Black hawks have gotten better. Colorado has really stepped it up lately this year in particular, high drafts and focusing on their youth has paid huge dividends, Minnesota added new players and will become stronger.

So there are really 5 top teams in the west, how do the Canucks stand up to those teams. At present and as configured not very well. It's not all Gillis' fault, or torts fault. It's a process that happens to teams. We missed the playoff once since 2005. Yet other teams in the Northwest Division most notably Edmonton and Calgary have missed a lot. Yet even with all the top tiered players they've drafted they are still in the can.

Edmonton has 3 #1 overall picks playing on their roster. 3 Hall, Nugent-Hopkins and Yakupov. How's that going for them all that talent up front with AHL goaltending, Porous ECHL defence and horrible coaching. Just be glad your not an Oilers fan.

When teams like Detroit in the East (it really feels weird saying that ) may not make the playoffs this year after 22 years you can see the problems within this year. Somehow They probably will. beat out Toronto for the last spot on the last day of the regular season.. ohh that would be awesome.

Also have you noticed every time the Canucks seem to get on a run the next season there seems to be labor unrest.

In 1994 cup final we lose in game 7 Then the league loses half the season in 95.

Our club goes through massive retooling and changes that leads to Then terrible seasons with the club in 96,97 and 98. We lose guys like Pavel Bure - face of the franchise trade away a heart and soul captain in Linden. But where does that get us. It Lead to us drafting the Sedins in 99 at #2 and #3 overall. So into the West coast express days from a team built in the late 90's in a strong Northwest division.

Then we lose a year of hockey in 2005. We come back from that in a salary cap era, get an Allstar goalie to backstop us in Luongo. Then we start to go on a terrific run a few years later 2 president trophies, a Stanley cup run in 2011 lose in game 7 and what do you know more labor strife again we loose half a year. we come back from that with a core group that is getting older, we lost a few pieces from the cup run team.

So Now it's repositioning of teams in division. We aren't the elite team we once were. We are on a decline. Are we going to be as bad as we were in the mid 80's or late 90's? Other teams will be in that decline as we start to rise again. Ebbs and Flows.

However we had a good run, for a few years and it's time to retool, rather than blow the whole thing up and rebuild from the bottom like Calgary did.

Going out and getting rental players losing picks hmmm nope won't work won't help. People screaming we should have traded for guys like vanek. Vanek probably won't resign in Montreal. He's already said his intentions are to go to Minnesota for whatever reason. So July 1st look for Vanek in a wild Jersey.

For the Canucks. In the Luongo deal we got younger Mattias was a player the Canucks have been after for a couple of years. And a very good great goalie prospect in Markstrom. Best of all in takes a 35 year old Luongo the best goalie in Canucks history (probably retire #1 here some day and it won't be McLean heading to the rafters THANK GOD!) and ships him where he wants to be after 2 seasons of turmoil in Vancouver. How many more years does Luongo have in him 3 maybe 4 more season's as a starter. don't get me wrong I love luongo been a huge supporter of his for a long time.

For all the people crying about Schneider. did you see the way he played the first half of the season in New Jersey. Arguably a better defensive team than we have playing in the crappy Eastern conference against 2 or 3 super teams in Pittsburgh and Boston..Had he been here people would have been crying about how we should have kept Luongo and we wouldn't have Bo Horvat in our future stable. just a Schnieder that looks like Alex Auld. If you need an American goalie fix on the Canucks look past the Future of goaltending in Sweden . Lack, Markstrom and Eriksson to a guy who set all the top marks at Merrimack college in Joe Cannata.. he's not your ordinary Joe.


Honestly If they truly want to move Kesler or any other players (Edler/ Bieksa) then the summer at the draft is probably the best place to do it.

The greatest thing of all though. Even if not we won't be in the Conner Mc David sweepstakes in 2015. Edmonton still will be though. For They are a truly, truly HORRIBLE TEAM.

I'm no Oilers fan but seriously just because you love the Canucks doesn't mean you talk shit about other teams specially when your Canucks are doing as bad as they are. They still haven't hit rock bottom yet...there are a lot of shitty days and nights ahead boys.

Its funny how everyone's tone changes when shit happens to their team. As I can see from the analysis above, you clearly don't hesitate to bash rebuilding teams like the Flames and the Oilers. Yes the Oilers do deserve a little bit of hate for the bad management and not getting the right pieces for the young kids to do good. So what? Young teams take time to get their act together. The Flames, despite missing the playoffs these last few years have hung in there near the 8th spot most years. To call that a failure is bs. I can sit here and say the same about the Canucks making it to the playoffs and getting swept in the first round.

Everyone knew time was running out for this core of players. Now we're certainly there. Gillies is ruining this team and I'm sure most of you will agree to that. Yes he got rid of the Luongo contract but for what? Markstrom and Matthias? Seriously? I don't buy the whole Matthias is a good strong young player. He's a 3rd liner, a plugger. Don't make it sound like you've struck gold. It was shitty deal.

As for the "re-tool", you should understand from the Calgary model that a word like "re-tool" doesn't exist. Feaster kept calling it re-tool all of last year, in the end he had to blow it up. It's easier if people just accept that its time to do the same here.

I'm sorry but you don't deserve to critique other teams or at least talk shit about them, if you don't hold your own team to the same standard.
 

fossa021

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First off I'm a fan of the game of hockey. Seen more games from Peewee hockey to the pro level than I care to remember. Junior, NCAA etc.

Do I happen to like some pro teams. Vancouver, chicago, Detroit? Pittsburgh sure. Do I watch other teams and players play certainly. Do I participate on many free and open hockey forum boards well yes I do. Do I write a for a hockey blog about the NHL, KHL,Junior and NCAA. Well yes I do. Have I a degree in kinesiology yes I do in biomechanics. Played to a decent level since I was 5 coached and scouted for 20+ years. Hmmm. But yet I shouldn't comment on the hapless oilers or the Flames because I'm a Canuck fan. Please give it a rest.

There are 30 teams in the NHL. When teams for the past 5 years have had the top Omsensus #1 draft choice. Yakopov, Nugent- hopkins and Taylor hall. Decent picks in sam ganer, jordan Eberle Darnel Nurse. Adding justin schultz. They go out and land the hot shot new coach. They sign some free agent talent. Over the years winning nothing but the lottery picks.
Yes I will comment on that. Here and every where else in the hockey world.

So I ask you how many first overall picks have the Canucks ever had? Easy answer 0. How many have edmonton had in the past 5 years 3. 3 first overall picks. Now these guys have played together in the league and No one can make a comment on it. You're just a joke.

They trade away Smid and N Schultz for picks nothing really else. They traded away Gilbert and ryan Whitney for what years ago? They Bring in Mark Fraser. Lol and waiver Cory Potter

You have 1 guy in edmonton that is an NHL capable D man in Brad Ferrence and somebody eles first round pick (anaheim) in Justin Schultz. The rest of the teams D could barely make 20 other teams AHL rosters.

They then go out an slowly get rid of every NHL goaltender they have. Sadling up their fortunes to Vikto Fasth and Ben Scrivens. Scrivens and Fasth. Okay sure why not AHL coach AHL defense why not run with AHL goaltending too. If I didn't know any better I'd say they were trying to secure Conner McDavid next year too #1 overall yet again and destroy his career too at 21.

They have some great forwards in Eberle, Hall, Yakupov, nugent hopkins, Perron, Gagner. 5 great young players

Do I need to go into Calgary's Feaster fire sale over 2 years? They got some talented NCAATalent. Ya didn't think so

Great analysis! Couldn't agree more.

But again I ask, can you dissect the Canucks with the same brutality and honesty? As far as your original post is concerned, all I saw were excuses for every little thing. I don't see any of those in your opinion of the Oilers.

As for the apparent no talent Flames, guess what, they're only 10 points behind the Canucks. For a team pegged to eat dirt and call it a tanked season, they've given the best of teams a run for their money.

Simply stating the fact that the Canucks have "zero" first over all picks doesn't mean jackshit. You guys did pick Henrik and Daniel second and third overall.

I have no problem with an honest critique. However, when you're being this biased I can't help but take offence to it. The punch lines in your argument solely depend on the weakness of other teams to make the Canucks look better than they really are. As an avid hockey fan, you of all people should know, that's a bit of a cheap shot. You're pulling a Sean Avery here...
 

dickotoole

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Feb 17, 2006
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Badger, don't get mad because another person calls you a blowhard. That would be like me getting mad because another person tells me I have a big dick. I do so I have learned to just accept it. :)

In another post someone said you reminded him of Cliff Claven and it seems more and more apt as I read your posts.

In this discussion you state your views like others but ad in bits of whimsy for, perhaps, some of the reasons the dude above listed. How does, "Have I a degree in kinesiology yes I do in biomechanics. Played to a decent level since I was 5" further your the points you made. Congrats on the degree and other achievements in your life. Is the blog you write for as biased as your views here?

Anyway, take a chill pill before replying when someone chides you dude. Your posts are often a good read but when you go off on someone for ribbing you a bit it is bothersome to say the least. Chill and enjoy, don't get so defensive so quickly. Smile and go eat some pussy. :)
 

Kev

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When Alain got the boot Gilles should have been kicked to the curb too. Instead he's still here making Canuck decisions. I've seen this played out to many times in the past. The out come not positive.

I say get rid of Gilles, and Torts, if Kessler wants out, see ya and while were at it the Sedin's fifteen minutes are way past due. Good riddance to them all. If it's time to rebuild i can get my skates sharpened. --- Kev
 

grusse

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Feb 18, 2010
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I recall when the Canucks were changing capt's after Luongo that Kesler wasn't interested in the C cuz it'd mean more contact with the media after every game.

yes, it is part of being a pro but it seemed, at that time at least, that he'd be happier with minmal interviews.no doubt a leader in the room.
I think Bieska would be a good captain...tho' Dn Cherry would still mangle his name,lol.

today's Province has an editorial saying fire Torts.
sports pages list possible gm's to replace Gillis

besides Badger's very valid point of who is out there and capable, there's the financial aspect.both Torts&Gillis have,I think, 4 yrs on their contracts
so it'd cost mega for a buy-out...and the Aquilinis have not been so inclined very often.
 

Horse99

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Aug 17, 2006
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Why did the team remove Kesler's A? Perhaps it has to do with his screwing a teammates g/f? Just saying.....someone in the dressing room must have a reason.
 

fossa021

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Critical assessment of the canucks:

1) Underperforming offense: Not only the injuries or the style of play this has been an offense on the decline for 3 years since 2011. Powerplay has become ineffective. Not working to the Sedins strengths. Nevel Brown screwed the Canucks power play when he came in here. Tried to fashion it like Anaheim's. Only problem we don't have Getzlaf or Perry. Very rarely carry the pucks into zone and set up plays off the side wall they've become a very ineffectual dump and chase team. Like a Zane grey novel.. easy to read, easy to put down, way too predictable...

Guys Like Booth, Hansen, Higgins, Schroeder and Richardson are expected to carry the bulk of the secondary scoring. It seems that when santorelli went down so did their secondary scoring. Both sedin's, Kesler and burrows have looked dreadful at times in the opposition end. Very static not dynamic moving creating open ice driving lanes. Kesler can't carry this team. Hoever that said going forward with this team the strongest 3 voices in the room and on this team leadership wise and the guys respect that are Kesler, Bieksa and Hamhuis. Bieksa should be wearing the C or Kesler should be if he's staying. Niether of the sedins should be wearing a letter let them do what they do best, take that added pressure off them Give that pressure to the guys that thrive off it. Bieksa C Kesler A Hamhuis A or Kesler C Bieksa A Hamhuis A.

2) Underperforming Defense. There was a time the canucks d would chip in more than the secondary forwards. Edler, Garrison, and Bieksa should be putting more pucks to the net remarkably this season for the most part. hamhuis isn't bobby orr never be mistaken for him. Just seems to be turmoil within the pairings. I don't really think Edler can grasp the concept of not playing with salo or ehrhoff. it's been 2/ 3 years respectively. edler's on a huge decline right now. He has to play a much more physical game. Hoped sochi would turn his play around.. Yawn Nope. Looked okay not stellar. Tanev has looked good and Weber has been a bright spot at times with his service as a utility winger on the 4th line. It should be one of the top 5 Defense in the league. Lack of team consistency in back checking and nuetral zone awareness at time has hampered them. Odd man rushes are killing them, Bad pinches bad decisions are cruxifying them though.

Goaltending: Lack is a bright spot. but you have to remember he's still very much a rookie and he can have as many off nights as on.. Markstrom eriksson and cannata are all good decent young prospect goalies. Schneider looked horrible in New Jersey at the start of the year. Looked better as of late. Glad the Luongo deal finally transpired. Vancouver media need a new story now.. no longer have Luongo wanting to go hame as the lead article.. I HATE YOU JASON BOTCHFORD - WORST JOURNALIST EVER!

coaching staff: at times their systems though similar to virtually ever other team lack purpose and drive determination. I think Torts leadership style might rub some of the vets the wrong way. Torts is the leader in that room. a room that had a pretty good leadership group as a core because AV's failing was that as a motivator and a leader. However, I think Torts lost his cool against calgary and in turn lost the room a bit for dignity and respect. How can you ask players to show restraint and discipline on ice when your standing in the hallway beaking off at the other teams coach. Where were the assistants keeping him in line??

Front office and Ownership. the Acqulini's have the money to do a lot of important changes. however that said they are way too involved in a lot of the decision making processes. Your GM has to be able to work and do things FOR the FRANCHISE. I honestly don't think gillis has the same level of respect that he once had from ownership. The Scouting staff of the canucks (love them all dearly a lot are very good friends I see them a lot in my travels) However it's time for a complete overhaul in that system and that group.

There you go a critical assessment of the team in the roger's arena....

Thank you very much for the analysis.

Now! Re-read both of your posts. The one above and the original one that I commented on.

Do you see how different the tone is? The first one you sound very demeaning almost as if teams like Calgary and Edmonton are better off appointing you as the GM, making a mockery of the players that play for each team. The analysis above is very factual and generally very sympathetic, and almost glorifying the Canucks organization for picking each of those players. So once again I have to conclude and say your posts are extremely biased.

I'm not here to tell you what you should and shouldn't do. I'm just giving you my opinion on what I think of your post and why I consider them meaningless and maybe hope that you see things a little straight since you call yourself a fan of hockey.

What good is knowledge and education if it doesn't bring us wisdom and humility?

(PS: I'm not picking a fight, just some constructive criticism. My aim is in no way to put you to shame or anything of that nature)
 

grusse

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Feb 18, 2010
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I well remember 2004 when this city was solidly cheering for the Flames,as was the rest of the country.very similar for the Oil in '06&Sens in'07.

I talked to friends in other cities at the time&they confirmed it.

However, in '11, during the Canucks run, this was not the case, not to the same degree.
Dunno if the Canucks were perceived as whiners,divers,etc. or maybe there's west-coast-resentment?

it'd be interesting to see if ppl in other Cdn cities would cheer the Leafs in a Stanley Cup Final?I know, first the "buds" would have to GET to a cup final,
won't hold my breath on that one.
 

fossa021

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All good points on your behalf. Yes my comments towards the flames and the oilers tend to be colored an tainted. Primarily due to proximity and as friendly Rivals. However the ridicule received from both fan bases of those teams over the past 6 or 7 years especially on many other forum boards has left me rather jaded towards them.

We all supported edmonton and Calgary in the drives to the cup. Especially the Flames in their run against Tampa. However Edmonton was like it was expected in their run against carolina. As the Canucks team got better the vitriole of those specific fan bases became heated. Calgary fans were usually pretty cool about things but these Coilers fan became unreasonable. During the 2011 cup run it was unbearable.

It's one thing to be objective in our posts but for the most part comments and arguements are subjective things.

I'd like to apologize to you if you felt my comments were unjustified or delivered in such a way that caused you any problem or angst.
No offence taken. Like I said, just a hockey debate. We are Canadian after all, we take our hockey very seriously lol.
 

mercyshooter

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Aug 5, 2007
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I don't get the correlation between the two. Explain yourself, human.
how many teams in total for men's soccer and how many teams in total for women's soccer? how many teams in total to qualify world cup soccer in each?
do this math and you'll know women's have higher chance. Then turn this into a big overall equation and you'll get that Canada men's soccer is not pro enough. ;)
 

grusse

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Feb 18, 2010
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you're not alone in you feelings for the Leafs, Badger,dunno if it's anti-Leafs or anti-Toronto, don't think the Jays,Argos&Raptors get the same venom
but also they don't have the ardent fan base the Leafs have.

some teams are just love 'em or hate 'em with seemingly no middle ground,eg Leafs,Habs,Dallas Cowboys,NY Yankees,
overseas there's Man United, in Aussie Rules the Collingwood Magpies, Manly /sea Eagles in Rugby League

the Canucks might fit the category as I notice fans in 'Nucks gear at most away games so Canuckleheads(said affectionately,lol)
are far&wide
also seems anti-Canuckism exists far&wide.
 
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