Kesler wants out of Vancouver

[manni]

Back in June after they hired Tortorella I posted this:



Now take a look at the current Vancouver Canucks who just cannot put the puck in the ocean. Rather than look at the roster he had and adapt a system to their strengths, he forced them all to play his system meaning everyone including Daniel and Henrik had to play dump and chase, and stay deep in their own end collapsing on the net shot blocking rather than allow them to carry and pass the puck up the ice. eg Have we seen any of the Sedins patented stretch passes lately? He overplayed his top two forward lines and defence pairs early in the season so when January came around they were getting fatigued late in games leading to frequent third period collapses and injuries. Their third period record of goals against/for is the worst in the league for a reason.

He took talented offensive players and turned them into third line muckers..just like he did in New York and after suffering through his act for a while many of his key players wanted out. His immaturity showed through during the debacle with Calgary where he stormed the opposition dressing room...to do what? Punch out Hartley? And that would accomplish exactly what except for an even longer suspension. Maybe he wears his heart on his sleeve but he shouldnt be coaching an NHL hockey team.


So what talented free agent in his right mind would want to come here now seeing what happens when they have to play under a system overseen by Torts? Just like Mike Keenan did when he came here he has destroyed the team and it will take decades for his successors to rebuild it to the point where it may again compete for the cup as it sinks into the same mediocrity Calgary continues to suffer through after the reign of terror by GM Darryl Sutter.

Good luck Aqualinis....you deserve whats going to happen after ripping the public off on your Heritage Cup ticket prices as the stands continue to empty of season ticket holders.......when you know that the Canucks will lose after giving up just one goal (like last night) and can stop watching its a sad testament to just how far this team has fallen since 2011


My suggestion is to watch the Raptors instead as they provide 100 X the entertainment value the Canucks do.

spot on ferris!
so true, that the personnel and coach just doesn't align properly.
to top it off, you have an incompetent GM running the show.

there was no urgency to their game last night–
even the broadcasters noticed a somber Tortorella. which means, he's unhappy
with the tools he has to work with.

it's going to be some trying years ahead.

 

[canuck33660]

I know this means shit to the Canucks but I am NOT renewing my seats for next year.

The Canucks have always played off the fear that -

1) there is a waiting list for seasons ticket holders
2) you get a discount based on how long you have continuously owned your seats
3) all the game are sell outs

Well I firmly do not believe that I will ever see the Nuck win a cup in my life time (hopefully 30 + years).

The closest I will get was being able to attend games 7 vs. Boston and we all know how that turned out.

If they do get back into a Stanley Cup final I will just pay the scalper price for the tickets. I guarantee it will be cheaper than paying another 20 to 30 years of seasons tickets.

Frankly the current owner and management of the NUCKS can go fuck themselves.

 

[mercyshooter]

Torts sees that Canucks lacks defense, I think. So, this year Canucks is defending "nothing"!

 

[grusse]

I said essentially the same thing. I also compared the Canucks offense to a corvette and Torts will probably treat them like a Jeep Grand Cherokee and will take them off roading. To which some die hard Rangers fan called me an idiot and said it was the player's fault Torts didn't have any success in New York. Womp Womp.

dunno about comparing Canucks offense to a Corvette...even before the Torts era.

 

[vancity_cowboy]

I said essentially the same thing. I also compared the Canucks offense to a corvette and Torts will probably treat them like a Jeep Grand Cherokee and will take them off roading. To which some die hard Rangers fan called me an idiot and said it was the player's fault Torts didn't have any success in New York. Womp Womp.

dunno about comparing Canucks offense to a Corvette...even before the Torts era.

yeah, maybe more like a volvo... ound:

 

[manni]

dunno about comparing Canucks offense to a Corvette...even before the Torts era.

I don't know about that grusse…but just a friendly reminder:
the so called Westcoast Express with Naslund, Bert and BMo used to light it up consistently.
one of the top lines in the league at one point. I may have to dig up numbers to back it up
but they did their job of amassing points and running on all cylinders.

 

[grusse]

I don't know about that grusse…but just a friendly reminder:
the so called Westcoast Express with Naslund, Bert and BMo used to light it up consistently.
one of the top lines in the league at one point. I may have to dig up numbers to back it up
but they did their job of amassing points and running on all cylinders.

no argument from me, manni, about the westcoastexpress,one of the top lines in the league for a few years.
and the Sedins won scoring titles in consecutive years.

I was thinking more about recent history,eg the 2 seaons before torts arrived.

I should also do some digging because I can't recall who else were forward lines back in the WCExpress days?the Sedins were slowly developing,
Matt Cooke was here,don't remember him scoring much?

 

[AA_Train]

Never liked Kesler and thought the Canucks were insane to match the qualifying offer Bobby Clarke gave him at $2.9 million when he was essentially unproven.

Honestly, the guy is decent at the face off dot and he is a fast skater, beyond that, not enough consistency or talent to warrant the praise he gets. I think the next place he goes, he will be relegated to more of a third line checking role, which better suits him. By draft day the Canucks' new GM will move him for prospects and a pick(s).

 

[manni]

no argument from me, manni, about the westcoastexpress,one of the top lines in the league for a few years.
and the Sedins won scoring titles in consecutive years.

I was thinking more about recent history,eg the 2 seaons before torts arrived.

I should also do some digging because I can't recall who else were forward lines back in the WCExpress days?the Sedins were slowly developing,
Matt Cooke was here,don't remember him scoring much?

got it. I thought you were going back to the Marc Crawford area.
anyway, I did some digging around from 2008–2010 stats just to see what they had.

2008-2009 Season:
Team: 45-27-10 100 pts
GF 246 GA 220

won QF 4-0 vs Blues
lost SF 4-2 vs Blackhawks (cue Chelsea Dagger song)

players in double digits pts:
Daniel and Henrik 82 pts
Ryan Kesler 59 pts
Pavol Demitra (RIP) 53 pts
Burrows 51 pts
Bieksa 43 pts
Alex Edler 37 pts
Steve Bernier 32 pts
Kyle Wellwood 27 pts
Matty Ohlund 25 pts
Wilie Mitchell 23 pts
Sami Salo 25 pts
Mason Raymond 23 pts
Janik Hansen 21 pts

and the best surprise
Mats Sundin 28 pts

Luongo 33-13-7 with a 2.3 GAA
Schneider 2-4-1 with a 3.3 GAA

2009-2010 Season:
49-28-5 103 pts
GF 272 GA 222

won QF 4-2 vs Kings
lost SF 4-2 vs Blackhawks (man, I hate Chelsea Dagger)

players in double digits pts:
Henrik 112 pts
Daniel 85 pts
Kesler 75 pts
Burrows 67 pts
Mikael Samuelsson and Mason Raymond 53 pts
Christian Ehrhoff 44 pts
Edler 42 pts
Salo 28 pts
Wellwood 25 pts
Bernier and Bieksa 22 pts
Demitra (RIP) 16
Hansen 15 pts

Luongo 40-22-4 with a 2.5 GAA
Andrew Raycroft 9-5-1 with a 2.4 GAA

in Vigneault's system, I thought they were more run and gun, judging from the GF / GA stats.
with Torts, the goal output is scarce. sure, there's an adjustment period, I get that. they did have that 10 game winning streak in Dec. (how)?
just saw a stat that the team only has 40 GF to date. I recall Nas and Bert EACH having 40+ goals one year.

so, it's hard to understand the sudden drop of production.
is it system based or personnel based? who's preaching accountability without it being a buzzword?
management better figure it out quickly or it's some sad years ahead.
of course I want them to succeed ASAP, but with Gillis at the helm, I'm not sure if the ship can ever
right its course.

Gillis can't manage or rock a goatee. comical to say the least.

 

[canuck33660]

I wouldnt put it past Aquilini to even increase season ticket prices for next season in the face of the most dismal stretch of games in the clubs history..even going back to the teams inception.

This is a certainty. I think that Aquilini thinks the seasons ticket holder will paid what ever is asked of them and they will still renew because it is the only ticket in town.

 

[canuck33660]

Not if you love watching 1-0 games which will become the norm for the Canucks....dont forget the Whitecaps who provide more entertainment in doing so at a much lower cost. One day they may just have a big enough fan base to open the upper bowl. Especially as the Canucks downward spiral continues and prices continue to increase.

I worded that wrong I meant to say the Aquilini's and their management team thinks that the Nucks are the only game in town.

I know lots of us talk about not renewing our seasons tickets only to do so at the last minute. Well I do not plan on renewing my seasons tickets and I think I will actually do it this year. So far I have only attended two games this year and I did not have any fun at either of them.

I now sense the arrogance of the Canucks that my friends from Pittsburgh, New York, LA and Montreal have always bugged me about, but which I was blind to the last 10 years. They are not a well liked team around the league and it is not because they were winning. Detroit has been a winning team over the years and I don't sense the same kind of dislike for them as others have to the Canucks.

Does anyone think that since the Canucks are not the elite team anymore, season ticket prices will come down. I don't think so. In fact I bet they will continue to go up at 3% to 5% every year.

I was watching the game last night hoping that they would get blown out by the Stars. It should have been 6 to zero except for that fluky goal.

So yes now I am that horrible Canuck fan that band wagon jumper etc. My only regret is that I have poured out thousands and thousands of dollars over the years on seasons tickets with the hope that I would be there when they win the cup. Well I made it to game 2 and 7 of the Boston series and well we know how that turned out.

 

[manni]

Love how every person who has had something negative to say last summer or early on this year feels so happy and vindicated as hockey geniuses sitting in their Arm chair GM jobs.

Where was your genius and your comments when we went undefeated in the month of December. Ohh ya nowhere but there's nothing like piling onto a team going through problems, injuries etc since January. Teams have ebbs and flows.

The canucks are out of the playoffs right now. Is that honestly such a bad thing? Teams need to build loose players, rebuild as their core group gets older. Happens with every team.

Out of the playoffs Last time I checked so were Edmonton , Calgary and Winnipeg. More than likely and hopefully Toronto too.

Our core group has gone through major injuries this year, as well as now being mired in a record slump. All one can hope for is that they settle down start playing for each other and come out of this.

At the very least if they don't make the playoffs it's really no big deal.

A draft placement in the first 10 teams may net them some special player. Next season and beyond Players like Horvat, Shinkaruk, Guance and Jensen will be pressed to make roster spots thats not a bad thing.

This season moving into the Pacific Division this year against great teams like Anaheim, LA Kings and San Jose and playing against them more has affected our standing certainly.

Vancouver was an Elite team in 2010 2011 seasons however they've been on a decline since then. Everybody knew it was going to be a transitional year and we'd see where we would be at the end of it. New Coach, New Systems, New Division against harder opponents.

In the West St Louis has gotten better, the Black hawks have gotten better. Colorado has really stepped it up lately this year in particular, high drafts and focusing on their youth has paid huge dividends, Minnesota added new players and will become stronger.

So there are really 5 top teams in the west, how do the Canucks stand up to those teams. At present and as configured not very well. It's not all Gillis' fault, or torts fault. It's a process that happens to teams. We missed the playoff once since 2005. Yet other teams in the Northwest Division most notably Edmonton and Calgary have missed a lot. Yet even with all the top tiered players they've drafted they are still in the can.

Edmonton has 3 #1 overall picks playing on their roster. 3 Hall, Nugent-Hopkins and Yakupov. How's that going for them all that talent up front with AHL goaltending, Porous ECHL defence and horrible coaching. Just be glad your not an Oilers fan.

When teams like Detroit in the East (it really feels weird saying that ) may not make the playoffs this year after 22 years you can see the problems within this year. Somehow They probably will. beat out Toronto for the last spot on the last day of the regular season.. ohh that would be awesome.

Also have you noticed every time the Canucks seem to get on a run the next season there seems to be labor unrest.

In 1994 cup final we lose in game 7 Then the league loses half the season in 95.

Our club goes through massive retooling and changes that leads to Then terrible seasons with the club in 96,97 and 98. We lose guys like Pavel Bure - face of the franchise trade away a heart and soul captain in Linden. But where does that get us. It Lead to us drafting the Sedins in 99 at #2 and #3 overall. So into the West coast express days from a team built in the late 90's in a strong Northwest division.

Then we lose a year of hockey in 2005. We come back from that in a salary cap era, get an Allstar goalie to backstop us in Luongo. Then we start to go on a terrific run a few years later 2 president trophies, a Stanley cup run in 2011 lose in game 7 and what do you know more labor strife again we loose half a year. we come back from that with a core group that is getting older, we lost a few pieces from the cup run team.

So Now it's repositioning of teams in division. We aren't the elite team we once were. We are on a decline. Are we going to be as bad as we were in the mid 80's or late 90's? Other teams will be in that decline as we start to rise again. Ebbs and Flows.

However we had a good run, for a few years and it's time to retool, rather than blow the whole thing up and rebuild from the bottom like Calgary did.

Going out and getting rental players losing picks hmmm nope won't work won't help. People screaming we should have traded for guys like vanek. Vanek probably won't resign in Montreal. He's already said his intentions are to go to Minnesota for whatever reason. So July 1st look for Vanek in a wild Jersey.

For the Canucks. In the Luongo deal we got younger Mattias was a player the Canucks have been after for a couple of years. And a very good great goalie prospect in Markstrom. Best of all in takes a 35 year old Luongo the best goalie in Canucks history (probably retire #1 here some day and it won't be McLean heading to the rafters THANK GOD!) and ships him where he wants to be after 2 seasons of turmoil in Vancouver.

Honestly If they truly want to move Kesler or any other players (Edler/ Bieksa) then the summer at the draft is probably the best place to do it.

The greatest thing of all though. Even if not we won't be in the Conner Mc David sweepstakes in 2015. Edmonton still will be though. For They are a truly, truly HORRIBLE TEAM.

very astute as always Badger, I really respect your hockey IQ and you ought to sell some to Gillis.

as a Canuck fan, I'll still watch the remainder of the season (albeit a slow death) just to see if they can bring back an ounce of respect with the group–
sometimes, it's as basic as holding one's self accountable. what can these guys do better individually, and then, as a group?

it doesn't seem anyone is willing to step up and rally the boys. a players meeting only should have happened by now, which usually does
when a team is on a serious slide. Captains in the past like Linden and Smyl did it (hey, what do you know…good Canadian kids).

on with life.

 

[87112]

Quoted from the Sun

STREAK STANDS: The Canucks said Friday their home sellout streak is intact and currently stands at 464 games. It figures to be challenged down the stretch, particularly in the next two games against a pair of fellow struggling teams - Calgary on Saturday night and the New York Islanders on Monday night.

Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/...hise+history/9592538/story.html#ixzz2vOGgzJpZ


Could it really happen? a non sell out?

 

[Cock Throppled]

Badger you seem to love Tortorella and defend him a lot. But who's the most responsible for almost every Canuck having their worst season statistically? Matthias for Luongo is a good deal to you? Because he's younger? They have upcoming games with Calgary, Islanders, Buffalo, etc and that means what? If they win they're suddenly good? They're supposed to be good enough to beat those teams. Some of us saw a disaster in the making even when they were winning, but you joined Gillis, Aquilini, Tortorella and Canucks PR in seeing rainbows and lollipops.

Back in October, when they were winning I wrote the following and almost everything has evolved exactly as written:

"You guys are missing a few key points.

1- It's only the beginning of the season. Things change.

2. Their winning record has been built on falling behind and getting fluke goals. How long can that be a winning strategy?

3. Kesler WILL get injured.

4. The Sedins will burn out with the long minutes they're getting. Burn out just whe the playoffs start like they always do.

5. Booth & Kassian = useless.

6. If Luongo goes down Lack hasn't shown he's that good.

7. The shot-blocking strategy is going to result in a lot more injuries.

8. Odd-man rushes seem to be a constant. Rarely end well.

9. This might be one of those season where the road record is better than the home record. Just a feeling.

10. My curse is still in place."

 

[Cock Throppled]

Badger is the perb Don Cherry who can't see the forest for the trees and doesn't get that most of the world gives a rat's ass about hockey.

And boasting about all the money you've made from hockey? Tacky.

 

[mercyshooter]

World Cup Soccer is the WORST kind of soccer you can watch. Club soccer is way better. Also, from an earlier comment, before joining the MLS, the Caps were a powerhouse in the USF shortly before moving to the MLS.

nope it's not. if it is, then Canada should have qualified! Canada is still amateur in this sport.

 

[wilde]

In the spirit of wagering, Badger. I'll bet you that the Habs will win another cup before the Cannots break the goose egg. I'll take the same bet, a one hour session at the fox den or any lady within that price range. Hopefully, we'd still be alive to declare the winner of this bet.

 

[mercyshooter]

Canada's women's team is great. Canada's men's national soccer team is a joke. The player's know it too. That's why very few come back once they've left to play in Europe etc.

that's because not many national teams in women's soccer. it's about half of the men's. so rintin6 is lacking the whole picture.

 

[grusse]

Awhhhhh a boys from company C response. Nothing better. Go enjoy your footy with the rest of the globe then. Make sure you grab your knee and fall to the turf like a sniper shot you only to be revieved by the Magic bottle of the wizard trainer. Lol
Oh the joy of watching a 0-0 tie after 90 minutes. Ohh joy.

I'll stick with my neanderthal sports hockey, rugby, football, lacrosse maybe even some cricket or aussie rules. I only watch the" beautiful game "during world cup
Barbarians playing a gentlemans game. A Game of thrones hardly. NO a game of divers fakers and pointers any other time.

hilarious video, dunno where it came from, but made me think of Monty Python.not just the Italians, diving is rampant amongst many countries.


re Don Cherry....I had to look up "troglodyte| and almost pissed meself when I found it,lol.so accurate.
he's annoyed at "La-Longo" but still is unwilling/unable to get his name right,what a clown.

"whaddya think yer buddy Bi-ess-ka's gonna think of ya?" or words to that effect.total buffoon.

re the Canucks on another thread a poster suggested hiring Mike Keenan as gm.
One can only hope this was written in jest.What's next, suit up Dan Cloutier?re-sign Manny Malhotra?
the mind boggles.

www.sportsclubstats.com lists the Canucks playoff chances at 5%.This was before the Sat. night win over Calgary,which may have boosted it slightly.

re Wilde's suggested bet as to the "Nucks or Habs winning Stanley 1st,all I can say is it could be a while,like maybe the same yr the Cubs win the World Series,lol

this thread started off with speculation about Kesler.In the Province today is an item saying Pitts. is still interested,for what that's worth.

 

[hedgeman]

Love how every person who has had something negative to say last summer or early on this year feels so happy and vindicated as hockey geniuses sitting in their Arm chair GM jobs.

Where was your genius and your comments when we went undefeated in the month of December. Ohh ya nowhere but there's nothing like piling onto a team going through problems, injuries etc since January. Teams have ebbs and flows.

The canucks are out of the playoffs right now. Is that honestly such a bad thing? Teams need to build loose players, rebuild as their core group gets older. Happens with every team.

Out of the playoffs Last time I checked so were Edmonton , Calgary and Winnipeg. More than likely and hopefully Toronto too.

Our core group has gone through major injuries this year, as well as now being mired in a record slump. All one can hope for is that they settle down start playing for each other and come out of this.

At the very least if they don't make the playoffs it's really no big deal.

A draft placement in the first 10 teams may net them some special player. Next season and beyond Players like Horvat, Shinkaruk, Guance and Jensen will be pressed to make roster spots thats not a bad thing.

This season moving into the Pacific Division this year against great teams like Anaheim, LA Kings and San Jose and playing against them more has affected our standing certainly.

Vancouver was an Elite team in 2010 2011 seasons however they've been on a decline since then. Everybody knew it was going to be a transitional year and we'd see where we would be at the end of it. New Coach, New Systems, New Division against harder opponents.

In the West St Louis has gotten better, the Black hawks have gotten better. Colorado has really stepped it up lately this year in particular, high drafts and focusing on their youth has paid huge dividends, Minnesota added new players and will become stronger.

So there are really 5 top teams in the west, how do the Canucks stand up to those teams. At present and as configured not very well. It's not all Gillis' fault, or torts fault. It's a process that happens to teams. We missed the playoff once since 2005. Yet other teams in the Northwest Division most notably Edmonton and Calgary have missed a lot. Yet even with all the top tiered players they've drafted they are still in the can.

Edmonton has 3 #1 overall picks playing on their roster. 3 Hall, Nugent-Hopkins and Yakupov. How's that going for them all that talent up front with AHL goaltending, Porous ECHL defence and horrible coaching. Just be glad your not an Oilers fan.

When teams like Detroit in the East (it really feels weird saying that ) may not make the playoffs this year after 22 years you can see the problems within this year. Somehow They probably will. beat out Toronto for the last spot on the last day of the regular season.. ohh that would be awesome.

Also have you noticed every time the Canucks seem to get on a run the next season there seems to be labor unrest.

In 1994 cup final we lose in game 7 Then the league loses half the season in 95.

Our club goes through massive retooling and changes that leads to Then terrible seasons with the club in 96,97 and 98. We lose guys like Pavel Bure - face of the franchise trade away a heart and soul captain in Linden. But where does that get us. It Lead to us drafting the Sedins in 99 at #2 and #3 overall. So into the West coast express days from a team built in the late 90's in a strong Northwest division.

Then we lose a year of hockey in 2005. We come back from that in a salary cap era, get an Allstar goalie to backstop us in Luongo. Then we start to go on a terrific run a few years later 2 president trophies, a Stanley cup run in 2011 lose in game 7 and what do you know more labor strife again we loose half a year. we come back from that with a core group that is getting older, we lost a few pieces from the cup run team.

So Now it's repositioning of teams in division. We aren't the elite team we once were. We are on a decline. Are we going to be as bad as we were in the mid 80's or late 90's? Other teams will be in that decline as we start to rise again. Ebbs and Flows.

However we had a good run, for a few years and it's time to retool, rather than blow the whole thing up and rebuild from the bottom like Calgary did.

Going out and getting rental players losing picks hmmm nope won't work won't help. People screaming we should have traded for guys like vanek. Vanek probably won't resign in Montreal. He's already said his intentions are to go to Minnesota for whatever reason. So July 1st look for Vanek in a wild Jersey.

For the Canucks. In the Luongo deal we got younger Mattias was a player the Canucks have been after for a couple of years. And a very good great goalie prospect in Markstrom. Best of all in takes a 35 year old Luongo the best goalie in Canucks history (probably retire #1 here some day and it won't be McLean heading to the rafters THANK GOD!) and ships him where he wants to be after 2 seasons of turmoil in Vancouver. How many more years does Luongo have in him 3 maybe 4 more season's as a starter. don't get me wrong I love luongo been a huge supporter of his for a long time.

For all the people crying about Schneider. did you see the way he played the first half of the season in New Jersey. Arguably a better defensive team than we have playing in the crappy Eastern conference against 2 or 3 super teams in Pittsburgh and Boston..Had he been here people would have been crying about how we should have kept Luongo and we wouldn't have Bo Horvat in our future stable. just a Schnieder that looks like Alex Auld. If you need an American goalie fix on the Canucks look past the Future of goaltending in Sweden . Lack, Markstrom and Eriksson to a guy who set all the top marks at Merrimack college in Joe Cannata.. he's not your ordinary Joe.


Honestly If they truly want to move Kesler or any other players (Edler/ Bieksa) then the summer at the draft is probably the best place to do it.

The greatest thing of all though. Even if not we won't be in the Conner Mc David sweepstakes in 2015. Edmonton still will be though. For They are a truly, truly HORRIBLE TEAM.

Now THAT right there ladies and gentlemen is a GREAT write up! Awesome read Badger...