John database? John school? What is it?

[batboi]

Hi all, I'm a newbie pooner, newbie poster and I've been lurking the forums for about a month now and I've finally decided to post. In the future I'll overcome my fear of being called shill and finally post a review. In the meantime, here's a non-review.

Last month around 2 am I pulled up to a SW on Kingsway near Boundary and was talking to her from my car when suddenly she stopped mid-sentence, looked up and said, "Oh $#!+, it's the cops."

I turn my head and lo and behold there's an unmarked Crown Victoria slowly creeping down the street with all it's lights turned off.

I book it leaving the SW behind and continue down Kingsway at an guiltily suspicious 50kmph noticing the LE practically tailgating me. A few blocks down the LE pulls up beside me at a red light and calls out, "Asking for directions?"

I've never gotten in trouble with the LE before and I'm nervous as hell. Before I could even finish stuttering an answer which I haven't even thought of yet, the cop replies, "I don't ever want to see you in this area EVER again!" at which point I finally reply "YES SIR!" just as the light turns green and the LE speed off. *phew!*

I've read some of you guys mentioning a John database and a John school in some posts that I've read and I'm curious as to what these are and what they mean to someone who's on that database after they've been caught.

Also, the LE was hot on my tail after I tried to make my getaway from the SW and they no doubt got my license plate number and was looking it up on their computer the whole time they followed me. Is there a chance that I might be on this John database just from that? Or maybe I'm just being too paranoid.

 

[mr.e]

you've been trolling the forum for a month???

 

[batboi]

Sorry, I meant to say lurking. I'm not too fluent in my internet lingo. I've edited the post.

 

[SeekSteadyRegSP]

Last month around 2 am I pulled up to a SW on Kingsway near Boundary and was talking to her from my car when suddenly she stopped mid-sentence, looked up and said, "Oh $#!+, it's the cops."

I turn my head and lo and behold there's an unmarked Crown Victoria slowly creeping down the street with all it's lights turned off.

I book it leaving the SW behind and continue down Kingsway at an guiltily suspicious 50kmph noticing the LE practically tailgating me. A few blocks down the LE pulls up beside me at a red light and calls out, "Asking for directions?"

I've never gotten in trouble with the LE before and I'm nervous as hell. Before I could even finish stuttering an answer which I haven't even thought of yet, the cop replies, "I don't ever want to see you in this area EVER again!" at which point I finally reply "YES SIR!" just as the light turns green and the LE speed off. *phew!*

I've read some of you guys mentioning a John database and a John school in some posts that I've read and I'm curious as to what these are and what they mean to someone who's on that database after they've been caught.

Also, the LE was hot on my tail after I tried to make my getaway from the SW and they no doubt got my license plate number and was looking it up on their computer the whole time they followed me. Is there a chance that I might be on this John database just from that? Or maybe I'm just being too paranoid.

Geez, why won't people start changing their ways out there??

Everyone knows that driving a vehicle on a public street is a privilege, and not a basic right.

However, walking down a public sidewalk is a right had by just about everybody.

In order to become licensed to drive down a public street one must agree to the basic demands of the government which grants that privilege.

No one need be licensed to walk down a public sidewalk.

Why then, would anyone risk something as valuable as a car, pulling it along side a working girl to share the illegal "communication" prior to the sexual encounter you're trying to arrange?

It is extremely easy for police to justify pulling over your car, and reasonably difficult and extremely not worth their time to justify stopping you as you're walking with intent down a public sidewalk.

Clearly it makes sense for any able-bodied 'pooner' to park his vehicle a couple of blocks away and approach the working girl of his interest on foot!

This will cut way down on rip-offs, on "TOFTT" encounters, in addition to greatly reducing your chances of being arrested for communication-law violations.

(as to the actual answer the poster was seeking: They probably do have your license plate listed among many others, on a list they'll check in the future if spotting your vehicle circling and circling around the same blocks as so many of us do)

However, they won't waste their time entering plate details from cars parked three blocks away as some random person is walking through the neighborhood.

This has been a public service message.

 

[batboi]

I must admit I was a little ignorant of the public solicitation laws when this happened. My first SW experience was an expensive and disappointing mistake on Seymore St. My second got me a good talking to from the cops. After that I finally looked up the law online (and coincidentally found PERB). Thank my lucky stars I wasn't actually arrested. I think this experience has pretty much turned me off the SW's for good. Sticking with escort services, MPs and CL ads seems much safer.

Trust me, I'll never pick up a SW ever again. It's just not worth it.

Also, will having my plate number on their database work against me in the future for any reason? Would it be as easy as changing my license plate (getting a vanity plate for example) to throw off the LE scent? Also, if I just happen to be passing through that area would they be justified in stopping me and pulling me over just because they have my plate number in their database?

 

[mr.e]

I must admit I was a little ignorant of the public solicitation laws when this happened. My first SW experience was an expensive and disappointing mistake on Seymore St. My second got me a good talking to from the cops. After that I finally looked up the law online (and coincidentally found PERB). Thank my lucky stars I wasn't actually arrested. I think this experience has pretty much turned me off the SW's for good. Sticking with escort services, MPs and CL ads seems much safer.

Trust me, I'll never pick up a SW ever again. It's just not worth it.

Also, will having my plate number on their database work against me in the future for any reason? Would it be as easy as changing my license plate (getting a vanity plate for example) to throw off the LE scent? Also, if I just happen to be passing through that area would they be justified in stopping me and pulling me over just because they have my plate number in their database?

You're in their data base so if your pulled over for something else they'll know your history.

 

[kodiak_bear3]

Funny thing was I later lend this money to a "friend" of mine who I went into business with and the money was eventually lost anyway.

When you lend the money to a friend... you lose the money... and the friend

 

[kodiak_bear3]

If you get pulled over

If you are alone

LE will ask you: "where are you going?" and "where you come from"... eventually "what are you doing in this nighborhood?". Just play cool and have some plausible answers ready. Most likely they will send you home with a suggestion not to come in that neighborhood again​

If you have a SW with you

LE know them all, so they will know that in the car there is a SW. Don't try to say that she is a date or a friend or anything stupid like that. Don't say that you picked her up to give her a ride (pick up is illegal in Vancouver). Just play your rights not to answer any question about your private life. If they want to speak to the girl, don't give them permission to speak to your passenger (they don't have the right to do it without your permission). Also, don't give them permission to search your car... if the girl has some dope with her you may be in trouble!​

 

[cruiser]

Just wondering....

How long would they keep your license plate on file ??? I did a lot of "cruising" in the 80's and only a tad amount in the 90's. If they did register my plate in the database, would it possibly be there this many years later?

I did get pulled over once in Calgary (not my home town) and I was literally s***ing bricks. I had just stopped and talked to a SW...she hopped in and then the lights went on. The guy let me go and I basically hustled my ass out of the area. This happened about 10 years ago...would this incident still be on file ?

I have travelled to the U.S. since these times...and also have a passport, so it couldn't of been to bad, but how do I know that my name is still not on file somewheres?

Feedback........

 

[cruiser]

Thanks for the info....

I have travelled by both air and car to the U.S. (within the last year)...and passed through both times.

One other question:
Regarding asking for my "file". How do I go about applying for it ? I looked up "Freedom of Information and Privacy Act"

http://www.qp.gov.bc.ca/statreg/stat/F/96165_02.htm#section5

and they just say to make a written request. How would it look if I walk in to the local police station with a letter asking for a copy of my file? Is it that easy or would they also have forms that I need to fill out? Would they be willing to hand it over to me?

Any feedback from anyone who has done that ???

 

[kodiak_bear3]

The DISC database

Here below is extracted from the "24th Annual Training Symposium - BC Crime Prevention Association - September 19, 2002 - Surrey, BC", report written by David Loukidelis - Information & Privacy Commissioner for British Columbia"

In June of 1999, the BC Civil Liberties Association complained to my office about the Vancouver Police Department’s DISC Program. DISC stands for “Deter and Identify Sex-trade Consumers”.

DISC is a database that contains the name, birth date, address, driver’s licence, vehicle licence, vehicle description and identifying marks of any driver stopped by police on suspicion of soliciting or seeking sex from a sex-trade worker. The Department told us that the unexplained disappearance of many Lower Mainland sex-trade workers made it is necessary to have a focused database of sex-trade consumers to help solve sex-trade workers’ disappearances and to help protect sex-trade workers.

Officers only stop a car if they have observed behaviour that gives them reasonable grounds to believe that a solicitation offence under the Criminal Code may have been committed. For example, they stop a car only if it has continually cruised an area where sex-trade workers are present on the streets, if the driver has picked up a sex-trade worker, if a driver is found in the company of a sex-trade worker, or if the driver has continually stopped and talked to sex-trade workers.

These individuals are not charged with anything, but their personal information is entered into the DISC database. When a driver is stopped, he is told the personal information is being collected for the purposes of a law enforcement database. The information in the DISC database is used to assist investigations involving crimes against sex-trade workers or their disappearance. As part of this, the Vancouver Police Department has made the DISC database available to certain law enforcement agencies.

As a result of my investigation, I was satisfied the Department had the authority to collect, use and disclose sex-trade consumers’ personal information for the purposes of the DISC Program. I concluded the information was being collected for the purposes of policing, if not specific law enforcement investigations, and was therefore authorized by the Act. I was equally satisfied that the personal information could be collected and used by the Vancouver Police Department for law enforcement investigations or proceedings.

Last, I was also satisfied the Department could disclose information in the DISC database to other law enforcement agencies, but only for the purposes of actual investigations or proceedings. For this reason, I recommended that the Vancouver Police Department should allow other law enforcement agencies to have access to the DISC database only pursuant to a user agreement between the Department and the other agency.

That recommendation, which has been implemented by the Department, requires a user agency to agree to use the DISC information only for ongoing law enforcement investigations or proceedings and then only to the extent the information is necessary for those purposes. Only one or two designated officers are permitted to have access to the DISC database. (This is also true with the Vancouver Police Department – only two officers have access to the database.) The user agency also must agree to keep the database information confidential and to not disclose it without the prior consent of the Vancouver Police Department and then only for law enforcement investigations or proceedings by another law enforcement agency in Canada.

The obvious reason for these requirements is that DISC contains detailed personal information about individuals who have never been charged with any criminal offence, much less convicted of any offence. It’s true, of course, that individuals in the database could probably have been charged with a criminal offence, but they have not been and they may in fact be entirely innocent of any wrongdoing. They have, nonetheless, ended up in the DISC database and for this reason it has been considered important to restrict access to and use of that database for legitimate law enforcement activities. It is also important to ensure that confidentiality and security requirements are being met.

I think it is fair to say that the BC Civil Liberties Association, while it has not challenged the outcome of my investigation in court, is not satisfied with my ruling. In that case, however, I was persuaded that the DISC program complied with the Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act and struck a reasonable balance between community interests and individual privacy rights.

 

[uncleg]

In theory DISC is not accessed for job application record checks, BUT there is the human factor. Namely the individual cop involved may, if he/she has access, throw in information from that source. Remember a few years ago the Delta cop that was accessing licence information and getting backgrounds on abortion supporters.