Israeli/Gaza: am I missing something here?
- Thread starter BJhunter
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no, Jewish people do not see Jesus as the messiah, they see him as perhaps a prophet. in their belief system the messiah has not been here yet.
Then shouldn't the jews also consider Mohamid also as a prophet.
In many ways jews, muslins and christians have icons and beliefs that are very similar. It is just the way they worship. Too bad they can't percieve this. They are all common brothers and should not be waring amoung themselves.
In many ways jews, muslins and christians have icons and beliefs that are very similar. It is just the way they worship. Too bad they can't percieve this. They are all common brothers and should not be waring amoung themselves.
Our compliments to all
It's nice to see this thread. Clearly, some members are being helped with the dialogue and exchange of ideas taking place here.
Our compliments to all for keeping the posts civil and tolerant of the others' points of view.
It's nice to see this thread. Clearly, some members are being helped with the dialogue and exchange of ideas taking place here.
Our compliments to all for keeping the posts civil and tolerant of the others' points of view.
Well that's something you don't see every day. Of course a thread about the whole mess of a situation in the Middle East that has remained civil is also something you don't see every day.
all three belief systems have the same base. My understanding is that biblically speaking the problem can be traced back to Jacob and Esau. They were twin brothers who were of the house of (I think you mean Issac)...David (as was Jesus). Jacob and Esau had a disagreement and split, Jacob continuing the Jewish line and Esau leaving and in essence starting the Islamic line. Christianity came along much later with the birth of Jesus. the Jewish people had been "the chosen people" up until this time. they did not like that Jesus taught that anyone could be accepted by god, therefore not recognizing him as the savior. The Islamic people likewise.
they both recognize the same prophets (Abraham, Moses, etc), as they came along before the division occured.
this is very cole's notes, but it is the basis of my understanding.
they both recognize the same prophets (Abraham, Moses, etc), as they came along before the division occured.
this is very cole's notes, but it is the basis of my understanding.
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Jacob continuing the Jewish line and Esau leaving and in essence starting the Islamic line.
The split was between Isaac and Ishmael.
The Jews trace their roots to Jacob, (son of Isaac),who became known as 'Israel', meaning 'Friend of God'.
The Arabs trace their roots to Ishmael.
The problem arises in the Biblical story of Abraham's willingness to sacrifice his only son.
Because Abraham was willing to do so, God promised his descendants the Holy Land 'forever'.
The Jews point out that the Old Testament makes the promise to Abraham's 'only son Isaac'.
The Arabs point out that Isaac was never the 'only son'.
If the promise was to Abraham's 'only son', then Ishmael was the only son for 14 years until Isaac was born.
This is why it is complicated, and there's no easy solution.
They are both fighting for their God given inheritance.
You and I sitting on the outside can have no bearing on this family feud.
The split was between Isaac and Ishmael.
The Jews trace their roots to Jacob, (son of Isaac),who became known as 'Israel', meaning 'Friend of God'.
The Arabs trace their roots to Ishmael.
The problem arises in the Biblical story of Abraham's willingness to sacrifice his only son.
Because Abraham was willing to do so, God promised his descendants the Holy Land 'forever'.
The Jews point out that the Old Testament makes the promise to Abraham's 'only son Isaac'.
The Arabs point out that Isaac was never the 'only son'.
If the promise was to Abraham's 'only son', then Ishmael was the only son for 14 years until Isaac was born.
This is why it is complicated, and there's no easy solution.
They are both fighting for their God given inheritance.
You and I sitting on the outside can have no bearing on this family feud.
Then shouldn't the jews also consider Mohamid also as a prophet.
Mohammed is not an Israelite, so he cannot be a Prophet to the Jewish people.
Other than that, and the identity of Jesus, the Islamic faith and Orthodox Judaism are almost identical in theology.
Mohammed is not an Israelite, so he cannot be a Prophet to the Jewish people.
Other than that, and the identity of Jesus, the Islamic faith and Orthodox Judaism are almost identical in theology.
i could be wrong but i'm pretty sure that muslims consider jesus a prophet as well.
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a friend of mine had mentioned to me one time over a chat we were having about guru nanak i believe, he was a sikh guru. he actually walked from india to mecca and i think my friend said that muslims consider him a prophet as well, although i could be off base with this.
jews as a whole do not believe in jesus as a prophet, however there is a sect of jews that do believe he was the son of god and follow his teachings as jews because christ himself was a jew. the practice is called Messianic Judaism.
as for the poster who answered me and said that jews and palestinians were not the first there and that many groups could lay claim to the area. yeah you are kind of right. i believe for the most part it is known that the hittites and the phonecians were among the first people to inhabbit the area. but many archaeologists believe the people that now inhabit that area to be the ancesters of these people.
sorry to get off base with the prophet thing. i guess if anything it just goes to show the complexity of the region.
thanks for the clarification Mod1 that's what i meant to say but the names got fucked up.
I guess this whole fight has actually very little to do with land per say, but more about the ideology.
I guess this whole fight has actually very little to do with land per say, but more about the ideology.
congratulations to the two posters above me that pointed out a mistake i made in wording.
wow, you guys are much smarter then i am.
however, yes, Descendants is what i meant to say.
wow, you guys are much smarter then i am.
however, yes, Descendants is what i meant to say.
Really? Dang, I don't think I've ever been smarter than someone before... I've got to call my mom and tell her the good news!congratulations to the two posters above me that pointed out a mistake i made in wording.
wow, you guys are much smarter then i am.
don't call yet, I get my full hour dammitReally? Dang, I don't think I've ever been smarter than someone before... I've got to call my mom and tell her the good news!
its a tough question
i for one have always wondered about the creation of the jewish state,
never sure it was a good idea, along with many other jews,
im not jewish by the way
but its neither here nor there, we have had a jewish state for over sixty years now.
i really wouldn' t trust iran with my life if i was jewish, by the way,
i truely think when they say they want to wipe the state of israel of the map, they mean every jew with it,
there has been some fucking bloody masacers in the middle east, on all sides
there was some one famous who had a reputation as a negotiotor,
he made the comment once some times you do have to let them fight, until they find war to bloody and they want piece,
but the hatred is so deep, im afraid there would be a genicide,
i for one have always wondered about the creation of the jewish state,
never sure it was a good idea, along with many other jews,
im not jewish by the way
but its neither here nor there, we have had a jewish state for over sixty years now.
i really wouldn' t trust iran with my life if i was jewish, by the way,
i truely think when they say they want to wipe the state of israel of the map, they mean every jew with it,
there has been some fucking bloody masacers in the middle east, on all sides
there was some one famous who had a reputation as a negotiotor,
he made the comment once some times you do have to let them fight, until they find war to bloody and they want piece,
but the hatred is so deep, im afraid there would be a genicide,
Muslims consider Jesus as one of the greatest prophet, 2nd to Mohammed(sp?). A Man, but not a God (or son of God), hence one of the big issues with Christians.
Jews consider Jesus as a false prophet and that the real guy will come someday in the future. That messiah is who the Christians consider as the Anti-Christ.
When you boil it all down, it's basically just cosmetic differences each religion have with each other. I guess for us liberal/secular people, we just see 3 religions all believing in the same big guy above the clouds, but willing to kill each other because some people are wearing white hats and others wearing other ones
Oversimplified, and, as I understand it, at the end of WWII, the Jews had no place to go, and didn't want to stay in Germany. Israel was created, based on long historical precedent. It was their land hundreds and hundreds of years before.
Neither were they welcome under Stalin in Russia.
So someone has to stick up for the refugees of intense persecution and the Holocaust, in their new home.
Neither were they welcome under Stalin in Russia.
So someone has to stick up for the refugees of intense persecution and the Holocaust, in their new home.
The establishment of a jewish state might have been hurried along by what happened in WW-II but the British had already made the Balfour Declaration before WW-I was even over.
Here's a bit of history that also partly explains the tactics being used by groups like Hamas, where they learned those tactics and why they expect that those tactics might work.
http://www.cjpme.ca/documents/23 En Jewish Terrorism under British Mandate v.1.pdf
Here's a bit of history that also partly explains the tactics being used by groups like Hamas, where they learned those tactics and why they expect that those tactics might work.
http://www.cjpme.ca/documents/23 En Jewish Terrorism under British Mandate v.1.pdf
i found a very interesting youtube video for you. the embedding was disabled but i'll post the link. highly suggest you check it out. not to sway your opinion but just for the knowledge aspect of it.
i think if iran wanted to rid the world of the jews, they would start with their own 25000 that live in iran. however they are considered "people of the book" and their rights are protected as a religious minority. something else that is kind of interesting is that they are exempt from the alcohol ban.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngttxIzXRsE
its a report from i think a british news agency. it really is worth a look.
