is this the end for crooked cops?

[marsvolta]

Atlanta Police officer who killed Rayshard Brooks charged with felony murder

is this the end of a profession that attracts individuals that get off on unchecked violence on the public dime?

back in the day when i was going to school i worked in security. i saw so many cops brutalize people. just kick the shit out of defenseless individuals for stuff as simple as swearing at them. doing security work one came across cops doing drugs and fucking street service providers and a host of other illegal activities all the time and we were trained to look the other way. plenty of noobs in the security industry called these events in and got tracked down and put in hospital.

just last year i was almost killed by a cop due to his illegal dangerous driving. they pulled me over to make sure i understood that it was all my fault.

i'm sure things have changed in many parts of bc over the years but my experience was that the forces were 50% good people doing good work and 50% violent freaks. and the bad guys set the rules. with crime rates going down for 40 years and police budgets ballooning i hope that the whole process of calling out a militarized force trained to hold their ground and restrain with lethal force for non criminal events is over. that lack of transparency on the public dime is over. plenty of other western societies have given the old model up.

 

[ExpCharlee]

hopefully it's the beginning of the end of it all.
this article sums it up ACAB pretty well https://medium.com/@OfcrACab/confessions-of-a-former-bastard-cop-bb14d17bc759
I've also been privy to police doing horrible things: beating a First Nations woman in a wheelchair to death, holding an activist friend of mine face down in a puddle with their knee, raping friends of mine....they need to go. All of them.

 

[80watts]

There are 2 sides to every story. Yes there are some really evil cops out there. But look at the environment they work in. Most people cops deal with in public, are the people committing crimes, or domestic disputes. They see the seedier side of life. When it comes to use of force, things can escalate out of hand very fast. Most cops are thinking I want to come off my shift alive. How many law abiding citizens think that when they go into work.
Cops are not above the law, cops that break the laws should be held accountable. And that is the problem, for so long the higher ups have been covering up for the culprits(bad cops), all while trying to keep the good reputation of the department etc etc....
A cop gets pulled over for speeding, he shows his badge, the officer on duty lets him off.... that is where it starts.

 

[JimDandy]

I only want to comment to op that the term "crooked cop" has in the past denoted law enforecment officer(s) that took bribes, ripped off drug dealers so they could sell the drugs themselves, or in some way performed illegal acts that fincancially rewarded them. In your post you seem to be refferring to law enforcement officers that are performing uncessary acts of violence. These acts per say would not fincially reward them and so would not make them "crooked cops". Both types of acts of are despicable of course.

It could be argued that a crooked cop would be more likely to flout laws that are meant to protect the health of the general public as well.

JD

 

[wetnose]

I certainly hope that the writing is on the wall for crooked cops. They enforce the law and they should be held to a higher standard.

I just recently learned of the disgusting term "Starlight Tours". Any Canadian should be repulsed that it even exists at all.

However, I'm not in favor of defunding the police. They perform a very valuable function in society. I'd favor more stringent selection and training, plus ongoing monitoring to ensure the bad apples are not getting away with literal murder.

 

[marsvolta]

There are 2 sides to every story. Yes there are some really evil cops out there. But look at the environment they work in. Most people cops deal with in public, are the people committing crimes, or domestic disputes. They see the seedier side of life. When it comes to use of force, things can escalate out of hand very fast. Most cops are thinking I want to come off my shift alive. How many law abiding citizens think that when they go into work.
Cops are not above the law, cops that break the laws should be held accountable. And that is the problem, for so long the higher ups have been covering up for the culprits(bad cops), all while trying to keep the good reputation of the department etc etc....
A cop gets pulled over for speeding, he shows his badge, the officer on duty lets him off.... that is where it starts.

i get what you're saying and i agree there are a lot of great people doing great work in policing. but its important to emphasize that we really need to reject the "just a few bad apples" excuse. the whole model needs to change. yes, we need a force ready to exhibit lethal force in order to maintain law and order... but that force needs to be called out a tiny percentage of the time. current police methods are to blame for violence escalation. "do what i say and do it now or you'll be restrained by force" is not de-escalation. armed individuals showing up anywhere is not de-escalation. civil matters should be handled by groups who are unarmed and trained at talking through problems. the English system is a good example. the Japanese system is a good example. in those systems cops don't carry guns. they arrest people all the time and those people go voluntarily. its a pretty enlightening thing to see it happen. and the profession doesn't attract thugs.

its completely imaginable that some unarmed front line worker showed up to talk to Rayshard Brooks, determined that he had been drinking, gave him a ticket and sent him walking home. but policing in the US and Canada is a grand ponzi scheme. police budgets get bigger the more prey they bring downtown. so, everyone is going downtown. statistically, if you are in the presence of the police in the US and Canada then you are in danger! something is very wrong with that.

 

[Shanghai]

You can pick out any of a dozen folks that regularly encounter cops on the downtown eastside of Vancouver and instantly you will get a "behind-the-scenes" picture of the sort of people that infect police forces. The way cops treat people that have no standing in society and get away with it for decades is instructive. Cops knock these people around, steal their meager cash, toss or keep drugs, grope and finger hookers and get free BJs, they avoid paperwork of such cases, they harass people just for their amusement.

The key thing is there is a cop code, like a gang code, so that good cops witnessing crap won't report on their brothers. The public that pays their salary are irrelevant to them. Their union protects them from being fired. Judges give them the benefit of the doubt even when they lie on the stand.

In short, the public response is completely justified. It is pent up anger after being needlessly cooped up for months, income sacked, and cops pissing off people even more just taking their kids to the park without a mask and call social services to take their kids.

Just shut them down, defund them. The world isn't going to stop turning. Take away their guns and cars.
If a bank robber points a gun at them, use a shield instead of a gun. Put trackers on the bad buys so the public knows where they are with an app like Waze or Google Maps.

Simple.

 

[westwoody]

There is no way police in USA or Canada could do their job without guns. Everyone in the states has guns and a lot of people in Canada do too.
British police are slowly become armed. There are a lot of heavily armed police at airports and transit hubs, I saw a trio all kitted out with MP5s.
Good to see the cop in Atlanta roll over on the shooter. All this shit happens because cops turn a blind eye to each other’s malfeasance.

 

[Lets Review]

The RCMP is the largest gang in Canada.

 

[UhOh]

No this is not the end for crooked cops. Not saying all of them are but the profession is a calling card for assholes.

 

[marsvolta]

There's no doubt that a number of recent incidents have highlighted the need for increased training, as well as some sort of a reckoning for those who operate outside the limits of acceptable conduct.

But, to have people spouting off that cops are all insane, bloodthirsty, corrupt, or to have that ACAB horseshit tossed around is outright offensive to those who've dedicated themselves to protecting others.

While the recent incidents have shown some departments have serious issues to examine, the pendulum has swung well past the point of having any sort of useful conversation and reasonable moves towards reform - instead we're seeing absolute hyperbole and an outright three ring circus mentality with the trial by media of every incident involving the police.

Take for example the police involved shooting in rural Nova Scotia. A meth addict shows up at a rural property of someone they do not know, and starts beating on the door. The residents call the police; which is entirely justified. When the RCMP arrives, the man becomes belligerent and advances on the officers with a knife - an officer attempted to use a taser to diffuse the situation, which failed (as it usually does, when meth or other hard drugs are involved). An officer then had to discharge their duty weapon, and the individual later died. No one would fault an officer for going up the ladder of use of force options in a controlled manner; and certainly no officer ever goes to work with the intention of killing someone. But, the story has a twist; that meth addict is First Nations, and thus the police involved shooting was not a suicide by cop, but rather an unprovoked and racist "murder"... Unbelievable.

no, actually, there are methods of keeping everyone safe. the police in Nova Scotia could have retreated to their vehicles and locked the doors! if you're laughing then its because our society has been so brainwashed with cops and robbers movies.

here in Victoria about four years ago a small asian family man who suffered from schizophrenia was off his meds and the family called the police because he was behaving eratically. when police arrived the man charged at an officer with a crowbar yelling "you kill me know"! the officer "stood his ground" and put four holes in him. dead. the victoria pd got a lot of flack for that.

this last summer someone out of their mind confronted the police with a gun. they hid behind their cars and talked to him. he actually shot at them at some point. they kept hiding and kept talking. several hours always changes peoples moods. he eventually surrendered. they learned how to keep everyone in the community safe. even "meth addicts".

here is a crazy man wielding a machete in the UK. and unarmed police officers restraining him. that guy wouldn't have lasted 10 seconds in the US or Canada.

UK Cops Disarm Man Wielding a Machete

 

[80watts]

Actually look at how many police officers it took to take down the guy, I count at least 20 police officers. That is a big difference than 3 or 4. They had to call in shields, which take time to get there. Even then there is no guarantee that an police officer would not get hurt. So if every policeman made 60,000.00 that means 1.2 Million police dollars had to be used on that guy. Now in Canada except in large cities, the police just don't have a presence to be able to bring 20 officers somewhere quickly....

The number 1 point of "use of force" is police presence, if they just go back to the car and lock the door, they have already lost the confidence of the public, and the situation. Chaos would reign and there would be no public order, people would be scared; it would be anarchy, the strongest rule. I would not like to see a world like that.
In all these videos I'm seeing on TV and so is the person being arrested, struggling to get away, which is "resisting arrest". Chances are the person is on some type of drug, which makes it extremely dangerous for police officers to arrest them.

Tasers seem like a good weapon, but they have limitations for a non-lethal method. 2 tasers strikes might kill a person. The police in England did not have tasers.
When it comes to drug use and or mental problems that just makes every situation a cop goes into more dangerous.

Now come the hard part for people to understand, alot of people are talking about police deescalation of the situation. Drugs or mental problems are very hard to deescalate.
Also persons get emotional, angry, scared, mad, etc at the police when they show up; that is pretty hard to deescalate or talk them down.
So drugs, mental problems and emotional persons need time and space to calm down (the police don't have the time for that). If there has been a crime done, the police are going to make an arrest. Its their job....

As for cops treating people on the street badly. I'm sorry to say that these cops are dealing with druggies, mental patients, and people who are the outcasts of society. What most people in society think of these people is that they are wasting their lives. The police are there to enforce the law. Public disorder, loitering etc. How do you want to deal with these people on the lower side of society, of course you don't go visit them, most people stay away from them, and ask the police to deal with it. Oh my what a wonderful concept; get the police to do your dirty work.....

There was another thread with a video of a comedian talking about the opiod problem. The drug Naloxone is used to revive overdoses due to heroin or fetanyl. Ask a paramedic about how they feel about reviving some lowlife after the 7th time. Do they really feel good about saving that life? Most likely they are indifferent to the situation as to maintain their own sanity. (apparently paramedics and police at the scenes of horrific accidents usually end up with PDST)

So the old saying "Walk in another shoes for awhile"....

Think 11 pm on the weekend and the party is going/just start to get good and the music is blaring.... who shows up to tell you to turn the music down.... A Police Officer, why because you would just tell your neighbour to fuck off.....

 

[Shakerod]

Atlanta Police officer who killed Rayshard Brooks charged with felony murder

is this the end of a profession that attracts individuals that get off on unchecked violence on the public dime?

back in the day when i was going to school i worked in security. i saw so many cops brutalize people. just kick the shit out of defenseless individuals for stuff as simple as swearing at them. doing security work one came across cops doing drugs and fucking street service providers and a host of other illegal activities all the time and we were trained to look the other way. plenty of noobs in the security industry called these events in and got tracked down and put in hospital.

just last year i was almost killed by a cop due to his illegal dangerous driving. they pulled me over to make sure i understood that it was all my fault.

i'm sure things have changed in many parts of bc over the years but my experience was that the forces were 50% good people doing good work and 50% violent freaks. and the bad guys set the rules. with crime rates going down for 40 years and police budgets ballooning i hope that the whole process of calling out a militarized force trained to hold their ground and restrain with lethal force for non criminal events is over. that lack of transparency on the public dime is over. plenty of other western societies have given the old model up.

I am sure that everyone has a story to tell about dealing with a bad cop in their life. But I also know that resisting arrest is the dumbest thing a person could do.The only answer to this is for everyone to stop acting like children with their petty differences and sit down and talk like adults about how they can get the bad cops out. Defunding, or getting rid of them is not the answer. Unless of course you want to create chaos where everyone is taking the law into their own hands.

 

[Fullhouse]

Actually look at how many police officers it took to take down the guy, I count at least 20 police officers. That is a big difference than 3 or 4. They had to call in shields, which take time to get there. Even then there is no guarantee that an police officer would not get hurt. So if every policeman made 60,000.00 that means 1.2 Million police dollars had to be used on that guy.

Hey, 80watts, nice post, but I think your mathematical calculation is off by just a little ------------

I suspect that you had a tough time with math at school, particular in grade 5 - all 3 years of it..

You say that 20 police officers were involved in the take down of a guy. They earn approx. 60,000 each per year. So you say that they used
1.2 million police dollars on that guy.

Wait now, did they hold that guy down for a whole year - or maybe just an hour?

At 60,000, these officers make approx.. $29.00 per hour. So they used 20 police at $29.00 each, that equals $580.00., approx. $1,199.940
short of the 1.2 million.

There, I feel much better now that I got this off my chest..

 

[marsvolta]

alternative crisis response models are already working in places like Eugene, Denver, Oakland and Portland and they work. the important component is that police don't get sent out. and no, the situation there has not devolved into lawless chaos.

There’s already an alternative to calling the police

Calling the cops on someone with mental illness can go terribly wrong. Here’s a better idea.

but as some posts here have indicated... if people think that those suffering mental disorders or drug abuse "had their chance" and are worthless scum anyways then certainly they're ok with the police showing up and murdering them.

and resisting arrest is getting far too common in the US because getting arrested is increasingly damaging to ones life there. it means the loss of a job, loss of education, all kinds of things. just because the cops are a ponzi scheme. that cops compete on statistics of how many scalps they have. US law makers are recognizing the problem and recently started to address the issue with the First Step Act that Trump signed into law in December. something is wrong when 1/100 (corrected) of your population is behind bars! its a police state.

 

[overdone]

Hey, 80watts, nice post, but I think your mathematical calculation is off by just a little ------------

I suspect that you had a tough time with math at school, particular in grade 5 - all 3 years of it..

You say that 20 police officers were involved in the take down of a guy. They earn approx. 60,000 each per year. So you say that they used
1.2 million police dollars on that guy.

Wait now, did they hold that guy down for a whole year - or maybe just an hour?

At 60,000, these officers make approx.. $29.00 per hour. So they used 20 police at $29.00 each, that equals $580.00., approx. $1,199.940
short of the 1.2 million.

lol, talking about bad math, hahaha

most cops in Canada start around 60G's, and get a raise every yr till they max out for their position

in Edm, it only takes 4-5 yrs to get to around 90G's

that's not taking into account their gold plated pensions either, when they can retire with one at 20yrs or 25

RCMP, pretty sure they start in at least the mid to high 50's too

so I guess those were all rookies, lol

there is a reason why the police are the largest item on a city's budget

 

[Fullhouse]

. something is wrong when 1/10 of your population is behind bars! its a police state.

Wow, it must be 'numbers day' for me, and I'm not talking about a 'cute number' I'm going to spend some if my hard earned cash on.

You mention that 1 out of 10 of the US population is behind bars, 10%. --- Wow - that would be approx. 33 million prisoners.
In fact, there are approx. 2,350.000 total prisoners in the US, or about 0.71 % of the population. -- but they do have the highest %.

Russia has 0.36%, China has 0.12% and Canada has 0.11%

I know a lot about jails. I have been in lots of them, visiting some of my previous most favorite SPs.

 

[marsvolta]

Wow, it must be 'numbers day' for me, and I'm not talking about a 'nice number' I'm going to spend some if my hard earned cash on.

You mention that 1 out of 10 of the US population is behind bars, 10%. --- Wow - that would be approx. 33 million prisoners.
In fact, there are approx. 2,350.000 total prisoners in the US, or about 0.71 % of the population. -- but they do have the highest %.

Russia has 0.36%, China has 0.12% and Canada has 0.11%

I know a lot about jails. I have been in lots of them, visiting some of my previous most favorite SPs.

thank you for pointing out my mistake. it should be 1/100 instead of 1/10.

United States incarceration rate

the charts on Wikipedia are so telling. if incarceration rates were to define a societies lawlessness then the US apparently entered an age of chaos starting around 1980.

stuff like this is also extremely alarming.

As Many Americans Have Criminal Records as College Diplomas

"70 million americans have 'rap sheets' or 'criminal records'"
"by age 23, nearly one in three Americans will have been arrested"

police state.

 

[Miss Hunter]

In Canada we have the Charter of Rights and Freedoms to protect us

https://www.solon.org/Constitutions/Canada/English/ca_1982.html
Pay special attention to the Legal Rights section 7-14, Equality Rights Section 15, and Enforcement Rights Section 24.

I agree that there definitely is a serious problem with abuse of police powers. They are supposed to abide by the Charter. They're only supposed to be using one degree of force higher than what they are dealing with... Which often doesn't happen

I've spent plenty of time watching videos of police brutality in my classes. And I've had my own unsavoury experiences with them.

They need to be held accountable for their actions. Currently police investigate police when there is a complaint. This has to change to a third party. And I feel more people should take action when police infringe on their Charter Rights. How many Canadians are actually familiar with the Charter? Even I wasn't until recently.. But I also understand taking a stand takes quite an significant amount of time and resources to do so. For example.. One guy fought the Toronto Police board for almost a decade over Charter Rights Violations during the Toronto G20 summit. He finally won recently. But all he got in the end was $500.

And they need much better training. It's absurd and alarming how little education some of them get before they are given weapons and sent onto the street..

 

[Miss Hunter]

Once upon a time I associated with the type of people we need the police to protect us from. And during this time I became quite familiar with the fact there are some very dirty cops out there.

But I won't support abolishing them completely. I think that idea is absolute madness. Anyone who thinks getting rid of police entirely is either a criminal themselves or completely out of touch with reality and to the dark side of human behaviour.