L
What is sex?
Of course, FS is sex, but -- remember what President Clinton said -- a blowjob is not sex. Nor, therefore, would a handjob be considered sex.
Of course, FS is sex, but -- remember what President Clinton said -- a blowjob is not sex. Nor, therefore, would a handjob be considered sex.
A lot of the AMP has a "special “ light switch….it turns on a light on and off in each room with one switch. This is the warning light that the cops are at the door (if they have an outside camera), or at the front desk.
Over a year ago, a lot of AMPs in Richmond got raided, and it was in the paper…..some of the girls wore their clothes inside out, and an article about finding 2 guys in one shower during the raid…..nothing illegal about this…but man I would have nightmares if this happened to me.
There is nothing illegal if you are nude and getting a body rub…..it’s against the business license (for most cities) for the girl to pose nude.
In Burnaby, each rooms must have a window….if you notice the girls just cover the window with a towel.
To sum it up, yes it is illegal for FS at an AMP....but only illegal if you get caught
Over a year ago, a lot of AMPs in Richmond got raided, and it was in the paper…..some of the girls wore their clothes inside out, and an article about finding 2 guys in one shower during the raid…..nothing illegal about this…but man I would have nightmares if this happened to me.
There is nothing illegal if you are nude and getting a body rub…..it’s against the business license (for most cities) for the girl to pose nude.
In Burnaby, each rooms must have a window….if you notice the girls just cover the window with a towel.
To sum it up, yes it is illegal for FS at an AMP....but only illegal if you get caught
T
Torman
personally i think the coppers should use their time with more important things like helping an old lady get her freaking cat out of a tree....second its not illegal to have sex with an escort....its only illegal to solicit ....in other words u cant offer money for sex or have sex then compensate her with money...those sound the same but have technical differences...so 'technically' if a copper walks in a mp and sees u pumping some sp that wouldnt be grounds to have u charged and convicted because u could just say it was yr old buddy or ex-gf that wanted u to come see her for a bit....the worst that can happen (and this is if u have a good lawyer) is that they keep u in the holding cell for the weekend....but it also depends on how much of an ass the crown is when dealing with that senario...
Geesh, most of the answers given aren`t totally correct.
Here I go again teaching Canadians their law
You have one Uniform Canadian Criminal Code. What is legal or not in BC is the same as in all of Canada.
Outcall sexwork is 100% legal in all of Canada.
Solicitation in a public place such as on the streets or in the lobby of a hotel is not legal. But if a street is in a deserted area where one would have an the expectation of privacy a Court has ruled does not violate the "in public place" solicitation ban. Solicitation over the phone, on https://perb.cc, in newspapers/mags is 100% legal. It is not a public PLACE (physical place).
Incall is not legal due to 1850`s bawdy house law. However, its rarely enforced in most cities unless neighbor complaints or other crime such as drugs or under age related.
A massage parlor situation is unclear. The Edmonton Police website says solicitation is ok if the door is closed. It implies now a bawdy house issue but doesn`t directly address it. Technically a hand job could be a bawdy house violation but almost unheard of enforcement unless more than a "happy ending" occurs. Go beyond that in a MP and you risk it being a bawdy house. You can be a "found in" by just being in a bawdy house even if your not having sex and even if you don`t even know there is illegal sex going on at the MP.
Strip clubs (you don`t have many in BC like in Ontario) have a Canadian Supreme Court decision which says full contact nude including breast touching is NOT a bawdy house violation AS LONG AS "no penetration or masturbation."
Someone mentioned nude reverse in Mississauga. Now we are into licensing bylaw issues.
A city can pass its own licensing bylaws (not "laws" in the legal sense, no one goes to jail but can fine and revoke the license of a place if ongoing tickets).
Bylaws can not unreasonably restrict what is legal. For example Brampton passed a very restrictive no nudity bylaws for MP. It was quashed by the Ontario Superior Court as overly restrictive. Other cities have restrictive massage (adult body run) bylaws but don`t usually enforce since they realize they might lose a court challenge as Brampton did.
Mississauga (not Toronto) has a very progressive elderly mayor. Nude reverse has long been allowed specifically in the bylaw. Its posted as an option usually at the front desk. Typically $110-130/hr full cost, no separate door fee or tipping.
It has been a long time since I did my "research trip" reports in BC so I have no idea what your situation is here regarding bylaws and enforcement.
You folk often have no idea how lucky you have it vs here in the U.S. where EVERYTHING is illegal. Busts go on without any complaints to please the religious right radicals. I know a provider who was arrested but case was dismissed who had to buy her home back from law enforcement under our RICO forfeiture law or be evicted. Yes, even though the prostitution case against her was dismissed. And LE frequently posts ads as escorts to bust customers who come. Your laws in Canada are similar to most of Europe and the world outside the U.S. Your bawdy house law should be modified to at least allow individual or small groups of providers to work out of their homes just like any other allowed home business etc. But overall you have it very good vs us down here in the U.S. Which is why I have been coming to Canada for so many years.
Here I go again teaching Canadians their law
You have one Uniform Canadian Criminal Code. What is legal or not in BC is the same as in all of Canada.
Outcall sexwork is 100% legal in all of Canada.
Solicitation in a public place such as on the streets or in the lobby of a hotel is not legal. But if a street is in a deserted area where one would have an the expectation of privacy a Court has ruled does not violate the "in public place" solicitation ban. Solicitation over the phone, on https://perb.cc, in newspapers/mags is 100% legal. It is not a public PLACE (physical place).
Incall is not legal due to 1850`s bawdy house law. However, its rarely enforced in most cities unless neighbor complaints or other crime such as drugs or under age related.
A massage parlor situation is unclear. The Edmonton Police website says solicitation is ok if the door is closed. It implies now a bawdy house issue but doesn`t directly address it. Technically a hand job could be a bawdy house violation but almost unheard of enforcement unless more than a "happy ending" occurs. Go beyond that in a MP and you risk it being a bawdy house. You can be a "found in" by just being in a bawdy house even if your not having sex and even if you don`t even know there is illegal sex going on at the MP.
Strip clubs (you don`t have many in BC like in Ontario) have a Canadian Supreme Court decision which says full contact nude including breast touching is NOT a bawdy house violation AS LONG AS "no penetration or masturbation."
Someone mentioned nude reverse in Mississauga. Now we are into licensing bylaw issues.
A city can pass its own licensing bylaws (not "laws" in the legal sense, no one goes to jail but can fine and revoke the license of a place if ongoing tickets).
Bylaws can not unreasonably restrict what is legal. For example Brampton passed a very restrictive no nudity bylaws for MP. It was quashed by the Ontario Superior Court as overly restrictive. Other cities have restrictive massage (adult body run) bylaws but don`t usually enforce since they realize they might lose a court challenge as Brampton did.
Mississauga (not Toronto) has a very progressive elderly mayor. Nude reverse has long been allowed specifically in the bylaw. Its posted as an option usually at the front desk. Typically $110-130/hr full cost, no separate door fee or tipping.
It has been a long time since I did my "research trip" reports in BC so I have no idea what your situation is here regarding bylaws and enforcement.
You folk often have no idea how lucky you have it vs here in the U.S. where EVERYTHING is illegal. Busts go on without any complaints to please the religious right radicals. I know a provider who was arrested but case was dismissed who had to buy her home back from law enforcement under our RICO forfeiture law or be evicted. Yes, even though the prostitution case against her was dismissed. And LE frequently posts ads as escorts to bust customers who come. Your laws in Canada are similar to most of Europe and the world outside the U.S. Your bawdy house law should be modified to at least allow individual or small groups of providers to work out of their homes just like any other allowed home business etc. But overall you have it very good vs us down here in the U.S. Which is why I have been coming to Canada for so many years.
Makes me think of this one time...
This one fella in an AMP was in the middle of FS. The RCMP vice squad abruptly opens the door (the management thought the boys were regular clients coming up the stairs, and didn't sound the alarm), and being a long-time regular, he continued his business not even missing a beat, much to the dismay of his provider, who was trying to figure out whether to jump and cut bait, as it were. When LE asked him for ID, he directed them to his trousers over on the chair. They just left...
This one fella in an AMP was in the middle of FS. The RCMP vice squad abruptly opens the door (the management thought the boys were regular clients coming up the stairs, and didn't sound the alarm), and being a long-time regular, he continued his business not even missing a beat, much to the dismay of his provider, who was trying to figure out whether to jump and cut bait, as it were. When LE asked him for ID, he directed them to his trousers over on the chair. They just left...
I thought they couldn't.....
go into the rooms of the MP with out a warrant? whats going on behind closed doors isnt illegal, unless they can prove it. So wouldnt that be invasion of privacy?
Dont we have any entrapment laws left?
go into the rooms of the MP with out a warrant? whats going on behind closed doors isnt illegal, unless they can prove it. So wouldnt that be invasion of privacy?
Dont we have any entrapment laws left?
As was mentioned before from the Edmonton Police website, what goes on behind the privacy of a closed door is not illegal. What an MP nor its SPs cannot do is publicly solicit anything more than the massage itself. The cops will only bust an MP for drugs or for "living off the avails" if the MP is collecting more than just the room fees. They'll also come in to check for the SP licenses, but they won't arrest anyone for that.WannaPlay said:
Here's the link...maybe this link should be stickied or added to the Newbie Guide:
http://www.police.edmonton.ab.ca/Pages/Prostitution/PublicInfo/PublicInfoMain.htm
http://www.police.edmonton.ab.ca/Pages/Prostitution/PublicInfo/PublicInfoMain.htm
wrong genius
2. I agree Bawdy house prosecutions are rare, but there was one in Edmonton about 6 years ago, but only because the sps complained to the cops. The reason they are so rare is the Police and Crown would have to rely on "evidence of the general reputation of the house in the community" to show or reasonably show the accused would have known it was a bawdy house.
Your MERE PRESEENCE there would be enough if the sps chose to testify to avoid prosecution themselves. Otherwise, the "reputation" would have to be established that a reasonable person would have known that ABC "massage parlour" had extras available. So physical presence plus sufficient "reputation" evidence would lead to conviction. Even if you did nothing.
Your only other defence to being in the bawdy house is that you could establish a "lawful excuse" for being there. ie. You`re working on the building repairs, delivering mail, doing something legit when the police come in.
Just felt the need to correct you since you wanted to "try to teach" us dummies something. if you want to be a smart-ass, you better be perfect.
1. Dude, the Crim code clearly states "public place" includes any place open to public view. Therefore, a deserted street will BE A PUBLIC PLACE AND YOUR ASS WILL be convicted for the communicating for the purposes charge. No reasonable expectation of privacy argument will apply in a place open to public view.Dave in Phoenix said:
2. I agree Bawdy house prosecutions are rare, but there was one in Edmonton about 6 years ago, but only because the sps complained to the cops. The reason they are so rare is the Police and Crown would have to rely on "evidence of the general reputation of the house in the community" to show or reasonably show the accused would have known it was a bawdy house.
Your MERE PRESEENCE there would be enough if the sps chose to testify to avoid prosecution themselves. Otherwise, the "reputation" would have to be established that a reasonable person would have known that ABC "massage parlour" had extras available. So physical presence plus sufficient "reputation" evidence would lead to conviction. Even if you did nothing.
Your only other defence to being in the bawdy house is that you could establish a "lawful excuse" for being there. ie. You`re working on the building repairs, delivering mail, doing something legit when the police come in.
Just felt the need to correct you since you wanted to "try to teach" us dummies something. if you want to be a smart-ass, you better be perfect.
lala, the best answer to your question is
technically it is "illegal" to have fs in a mp. HOWEVER, for the police and Crown to prove you were in a "bawdy" house, they need to have the sps testify against you or have solid "general reputation" evidence from the community that a reasonable person would have known the MP had "extras like fs" available.
in short, pretty hard case for the police. they will only consider generally shutting a MP down if the sps are getting exploited by the owner.
technically it is "illegal" to have fs in a mp. HOWEVER, for the police and Crown to prove you were in a "bawdy" house, they need to have the sps testify against you or have solid "general reputation" evidence from the community that a reasonable person would have known the MP had "extras like fs" available.
in short, pretty hard case for the police. they will only consider generally shutting a MP down if the sps are getting exploited by the owner.
I think...in Canadian law...even kissing may be considered sexual,Oldfart said:
as well as fondling a woman's breasts, etc {Of course sex with
a minor is always illegal, so one has to be careful when picking
up "girls" at a club or SW's. A girl should be at least 18 just to
be able to enter such a place, unless they had fake ID}.
So i had assumed that it would be illegal to place an ad in the
Georgia Straight, for example, looking for a woman who will kiss
for $5/hour. But to advertize the same for massage would be
within the law. That may be why you don't see specific "sexual"
services offered in exchange for money in newspaper ads.
Though some stand on the line in speaking of "sensual" massage
or "release" in contrast to others that specify non sexual service.
And on the internet some SP's seem to cross the line, even
though it seems that the WWW is a public place where such a
solicitation would be illegal.
By the way, there was a case in Vancouver, in Kitsilano, where
a public act of oral sex was performed on stage, albeit under a
sheet. Customers had to sign an agreement before entering,
and the police threatened to attend but didn't.
the way i understand it, AMP is operating under bussiness license as a place for massage. that's why they charge u room rate n massage rate. so they r not acting as pimp which is illegal. now, it is not illegal if an SP gave FS to client n client give her tips in that close room it is not consider public space. but SP can't offer it. clients have to ask for the extra. cause if LE post as client n he ask for extra service, it'll be considered entrapment if he arrest SP.
don't know if i'm right.
in that close room it is not consider public space. but SP can't offer it. clients have to ask for the extra. cause if LE post as client n he ask for extra service, it'll be considered entrapment if he arrest SP. don't know if i'm right.
Sex with a minor is morally incorrect, but depending on the age of the minor (and in some cases the age of both parties) not illegal.
Good old Part V of the Criminal Code of Canada
Right. I was assuming that the other party was an adult,Commander Chode said:
but thank you for clarifying that, as not all readers here
may be 17 or aware of the exceptions in the law that
forbids sex with a minor.
Maybe I haven't been reading Part V correctly but a 21 year old can have sex with a 17 year old (as long as it is not anal). If there is a section of the Criminal Code that says differently, please point it out.lenny said:
Legal ?
Dave in Phoenix, thanks for the info.
IceG, ease up on the guy. He was clearly just trying to help and I'm sure meant no offense re his 'teach us' comment.
There appears to be some unclarity regarding exactly what is and what isn't illegal. In any event, that's good for us cuz generally LE don't like to waste time on something that the courts aren't clear on.
Sometimes I think they "prefer" MPs because it gets the action off the street and to someplace where it doesn't bother the neighbors, business owners, etc.
Dave in Phoenix, thanks for the info.
IceG, ease up on the guy. He was clearly just trying to help and I'm sure meant no offense re his 'teach us' comment.
There appears to be some unclarity regarding exactly what is and what isn't illegal. In any event, that's good for us cuz generally LE don't like to waste time on something that the courts aren't clear on.
Sometimes I think they "prefer" MPs because it gets the action off the street and to someplace where it doesn't bother the neighbors, business owners, etc.
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