Is Harper Destroying Democracy?
- Thread starter Probyn
- Start date
North Korean's get to vote as well. Does that mean that Canada and North Korea are equal as democracies? You get to vote in China, Vietnam and any number of other countries where freedom and democracy are frequently perceived as being less than Canada.
Voting is only one component of a functioning democracy. Is Harper destroying democracy? He has certainly been destroying an open, transparent, democratic government that is accountable to the electorate. He has destroyed many of the democratic institutions in Canada and shown contempt for the legal system.
Voting is only one component of a functioning democracy. Is Harper destroying democracy? He has certainly been destroying an open, transparent, democratic government that is accountable to the electorate. He has destroyed many of the democratic institutions in Canada and shown contempt for the legal system.
On October 19th we will see. If the Harper government does not get a majority, another party will have the chance to form a government. If Harper fails to hand over the government, then and only then can he be accused of destroying democracy.
Either the Liberals or the NDP will elect more MPs than the Conservatives. It will probably be short a few MPs, but both the Liberals and the NDP will be willing to form some sort of coalition. The Conservatives have no one that will join with them to form a government.
We are hardly North Korea or China. We have more than one political party and we don't have armed gunmen providing "security" while people vote. In North Korea there is only one name on the ballot. If a person is particularly suicidal, they may go to a special area and cross off the official candidate while an election official watches. In China the Election Committee for each district determines who shall be permitted to be on the ballot.
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Take a look at the video and ask yourself if the level of power and control that Harper has taken into the Prime Minister's Office (and out of wider public scrutiny), has been beneficial to the democratic system.
Yes, the first-past-the-post electoral system is flawed and out-dated. Close to twice the number of democracies around the world use some form of proportional representation compared to first-past-the-post systems.
But, Harper has also very strategically shaped many of Canada's political institutions to suit his own agenda. Parliament is now highly dysfunctional and does not operate in the way it is supposed to.
sdw, read what I wrote. Voting in an election is only one part of what a democracy is, and doesn't in itself define a democracy. That was the point I was making.
Agree 100% with you on this. Our vote is only a small portion of the democratic process. The current government is so far removed from being open and honest, it's just unreal.
Yes he's taking liberties that rub me the wrong way. No argument. My point is that since he's not even elected by the majority so why would one assume he's going to do what the majority would want? There is a minority that approves of what he does, even in knowledge of his actions. I'm not part of that minority but I feel the problem is he doesn't feel any obligation to represent the majority of this country and he's gaming the system to ensure he never has to. And this is only possible because of first-past-the-post.
In criminal terms he's got the motive but FPTP gives him the means, and you need both to commit a crime. But more to the point there's a system in this county that can give 100% of the power to a party only 39% of us supported. For that to happen our democracy was already flawed. I can't say I'm shocked that someone came along and finally used it to their advantage and our detriment. It needs to be fixed ASAP because even if Harper was history you think no one else will try the same thing? And as long as he remains in power he will tweak things to solidify this "exploit" in our democracy (e.g. By Elections Canada gagging, advisor gagging, media control, etc.).
You forget that we have rule of law and a free press.
If any leader would be foolish enough to head toward a dictatorial form of government, his or her own party would toss them out.
If any leader would be foolish enough to head toward a dictatorial form of government, his or her own party would toss them out.
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Evangeline Grace
Actually not all Canadians get to vote because Harper took that right away if you have lived outside of Canada for more than 5 years; some democracy.
There are multiple polls that have found that almost 70% of voters are prepared to vote for the Liberals or NDP, they have indicated that they will vote for the one that they think will defeat the Harper Conservatives.
Nanos tracks second ballot choice in their 3 day rolling poll. If your first ballot choice is Liberal or NDP, you aren't thinking of voting Conservative. http://www.nanosresearch.com/library/polls/20150929 Ballot TrackingE.pdf
51% of first choice Liberal voters have the NDP as their second choice
52% of first choice NDP voters have the Liberals as their second choice
What people learned in 2011 is that if you don't get out and vote, you will get a majority Conservative government. The Conservative Party has about 31% of the Canadian voters locked up, they vote and they vote Conservative. So if some people are "too busy" on October 19th, Harper may achieve a minority government that will be defeated in the House when the Throne Speech is read. If many people are "too busy" on October 19th, Harper may achieve a majority government and be able to say "fuck you" to the opposition as he has been doing since 2011.
In 2011 Harper only had the about 31% of Canadian voters that the Conservative Party can rely on. However, too many people were "too busy" and Harper got 39% of the people that could be bothered to vote. Harper won 22 ridings with less than 1000 votes over the second finishing Liberal or NDP candidate.
If you know someone in the 18 to 34 year old age group, why not give them a ride to the poll after dinner? They may not thank you on October 19 as they miss their rerun of Gilligan's Island, but they'll thank you for the next four years.
A functioning democracy requires a certain degree of openness and transparency. Harper is a fan of neither.
You guys think Harper has a monopoly on many of the things you describe.
The Selinger NDP government here in MB is waaaaaaaaaay worse.
They even do things that the most staunch NDP'er cannot support.
Just saying for all you people who are drinking Mulcair's kool-aid.
Cheers
The Selinger NDP government here in MB is waaaaaaaaaay worse.
They even do things that the most staunch NDP'er cannot support.
Just saying for all you people who are drinking Mulcair's kool-aid.
Cheers
Most Canadians living outside of Canada for extended periods are not paying taxes in Canada or very limited. Since they are not making use of the in-country infrastructure this makes sense. Not sure they should be given the same voting rights however. If they own property in Canada and are paying their share of taxes, then that is different.
Possibly something you missed in your comment.
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Evangeline Grace
Nope, I didn't miss anything. It's just my personal opinion that if you are a Canadian Citizen you should have a right to vote in your own country.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/im-canadian-and-i-have-a-right-to-vote/article25731634/
if someone still has property in their name in the country, then they would have a riding they could vote in. they would have to register for an out of country vote
if they put the property in their kids name as most elderly people do (inheritance issue or family estate planning) then that would be different
with no property, not living in Canada poses the problem of which local jurisdiction would they vote in
practical problem, with practical solution..... no vote
no sure it infringes on your rights as a canadian, most people have an address which then gives them a local MLA
would not advocate overhauling the whole electoral process just to accommodate those Canadians who live in another country and don't pay taxes here....
there is more to being a canadian than just having a passport
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Evangeline Grace
Donald Sutherland does own a home here and I am sure he is not the only one in this predicament, famous or not.
Paying or not paying taxes has nothing too do with the right to vote...If that was true then nobody below the poverty line would have a vote.
Having said that...If you pay hundreds of thousands in taxes, would you get more than one vote?...One Citizen, means one vote.
If you hold a Canadian Citizenship...You should be able to vote.
You are Canadian, you have rights all over the world from a recognized Nation of fairness, you hold a passport of your country of origin...Voting the Government into power that represents you, and upholds the laws governing those rights of citizenship, is the key of what it means to govern.
They...The Government represents you, and upholds your rights within our nation ,and abroad.
This is also one of the reasons we have Embassies ,in almost every country in the world.
Having said that...If you pay hundreds of thousands in taxes, would you get more than one vote?...One Citizen, means one vote.
If you hold a Canadian Citizenship...You should be able to vote.
You are Canadian, you have rights all over the world from a recognized Nation of fairness, you hold a passport of your country of origin...Voting the Government into power that represents you, and upholds the laws governing those rights of citizenship, is the key of what it means to govern.
They...The Government represents you, and upholds your rights within our nation ,and abroad.
This is also one of the reasons we have Embassies ,in almost every country in the world.
Also...the way he refuses to take questions from citizens during this campaign is arrogant.
He only is taking questions from screened attendees at rallies. He is the Prime Minister of ALL Canadians and needs to be answerable to all Canadians.
And nobody knows what kind of crap goes on in the PMO or what kind of Orders-In-Council get passsed.
