Is Elon Musk a Nazi?

[carvesg]

You have not read Marx. At all. If you had, you would know that Marxist communism is stateless. There is no government to control anything or to force anyone to do anything. Which is why it's right next to anarchy. Marx describes the whithering away of the state, where governmental control ceases to be necessary, and ultimately, government doesn't do much of anything at all. Everything you're talking about sounds like it just comes from some silly Fox News article just repeating dumb Republican misinformation by people who have no idea of what they're talking about.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Withering_away_of_the_state

You can call your circle whatever you want, but it's not the left-right political spectrum, period. There are all sorts of two axes graphs combining multiple factors, but the political spectrum describing left and right is just exactly that, a single axis line through space, lacking any vertical component.

Yes, the original founders of the Nazi party were socialists, but Hitler wasn't. He purged and killed them all, and completely changed the ideology of the party. By this point, it was no longer socialist at all. If you were talking about the party in 1919, you might have a point. But certainly not at all by the time of world war two. This has already been explained. Hitler's Nazi party was squarely right wing.

I think Musk's Nazi salute says more about Donald Trump, than anyone. He's had numerous instances of Nazism at his rallies, and every time people make dumb excuses for it. Even including his own not so veiled quotes directly from Hitler's speeches.

And libertarianism is just a rebranding of liberalism. Which is why it's also called neo-liberalism. And that's why it shares the same root word with liberalism... Liberty. The original libertarians were anarchists, socialists and communists. The first person to call themselves a libertarian was literally a communist.

"In the mid-19th century, libertarianism originated as a form of anti-authoritarian and anti-statepolitics usually seen as being on the left (like socialists and anarchists especially social anarchists, but more generally libertarian communists/Marxists and libertarian socialists). Along with seeking to abolish or reduce the power of the State, these libertarians sought to abolish capitalism and private ownership of the means of production, or else to restrict their purview or effects to usufructproperty norms, in favor of commonor cooperative ownership and management, viewing private property in the means of production as a barrier to freedom and liberty."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism

"Anarchist communist philosopher Joseph Déjacque was the first person to describe himself as a libertarian in an 1857 letter... According to anarchist historian Max Nettlau, the first use of the term libertarian communism was in November 1880, when a French anarchist congress employed it to identify its doctrines more clearly."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism

Well said ! So many don't know the history of the Nazi party or the night of the long knives ... Rohm ...the one still influential leader in the party pushing for wealth redistribution was eliminated among others in July of 34 .

 

[carvesg]

This coming from the person who tried to tell me I am faking being French? You would do well to stop trying to point your stoopit fat finger at me and focus on what I write.



Yes, Marx was a retard and an idiot. He advocated for state control.of land, money issuance, credit, education, health care, farm land, and the list goes on....
And somehow complete government control of everything is going to result in a stateless society?
Socialists and communists are strong on ideology and theory. But basic logic and common sense, not so much....



Marx called for government control of virtually every aspect of life. And somehow, a powerful taxing and overbearing government is going to result in a withering of government? That is just absurd. No wonder no communist country has ever turned into anything resembling anarchy.



Okay, your perpetual ridiculous attacks at me are getting really annoying. Your crystal ball is cracked, my friend. You are very annoying and I likely won't respond to you anymore.

I though you would have stopped at accusing me of being a fake French. But it looks ad hominen is what you do best.

Perpetual attack ?!? I replied to you on your first comment ever on perb after you called arguments for Musk to apologize or explain himself ridiculous followed by other attempts to explain his behavior .... One response doesn't make something perpetual unless you felt an attack from me when you were on perb previously under another handle ; which is a possibility .

 

[Pumped]

One thing that might help some of you with your arguments is to recognize that "Nazis" are basically just one form of "Fascism".

Is Musk a fascist? Probably.
Is Trump a fascist? Absolutely.

The fact that Nazi has become synonymous with Fascism makes reasonable arguments difficult. Fidel Castro was a fascist in a putatively Communist country. Putin is a fascist in another putatively Communist country. We've had many fascist dictators in South American countries that considered themselves Socialist. And now we have a fascist President in a putatively democratic country (though its actually a republic).

Most oligarchs could be considered fascists in terms of their tendencies towards isolationism, protectionism, racism and putting their own selves above anyone else. Many of the founding fathers of American industry were supporters of fascism and they feared communism above almost anything else. They were also supporters of eugenics and Hitler when he came to power, as he was seen as a defense against the rise of communism in Russia and Europe in general.

TLDR: All Nazis are fascists, but not all fascists are Nazis.

 

[kelcaine]

You can' be certain it was intentional and then at the same time state you have no idea what the motive is. That's a contradiction.

People can do intentional acts without us knowing what their motives are. That isn’t a contradiction. We may not know what he was thinking and his reasons for doing it, especially as I would say most of us can’t read others minds, but what he did was absolutely intentional. It wasn’t a mistake and it wasn’t his autism. I’m pretty sure whatever his reasons for doing what he did, he knew some people would defend him, while others criticized him.

 

[masterpoonhunter]

Funny how this new poster here sure seems like one of the recycled trolls .....

 

[sexpanther69]

https://x.com/visegrad24/status/1882553556093571563

Is Macron a Nazi also?

Oh yes a wave and a salute, the exact same 🤡🤡🤡

 

[carvesg]

This coming from the person who tried to tell me I am faking being French? You would do well to stop trying to point your stoopit fat finger at me and focus on what I write.

VanCityNewb never said you might be faking being french . I Did . You pasted two comments during one of your replies with one of his quote and mine and since you keep using him and that poke as a trigger in your rants. It falls squarely on me.

T'a qu'a switcher ça en français ainsi que ton clavier sur bilingue . On est pas sur Google translate sur perb

 

[VanCityNewb]

The idea that Marxism tends towards abolition of the state is absurd. Marx or anyone else might gave claimed that Marxism would eventually evolve into statelessness. But that is an absurd theory. Just read the 10 planks of communism by Karl Marx. All of them advocate for a strong and powerful state.

The state managing the land, the monetary issuance and interest rates via a central bank, aggressive and progressive taxation, state sponsored education, and health care, all are part of the 10 planks.

Marx sold you a bridge by pretending that an all powerful and taxing state is somehow going to result in an absence of the state. And you bought that bridge.


Jesus! Read just the 10 planks of communism in the manifesto. All of the planks are calling for an all powerful controlling and taxing state.



Read the 10 planks. If there is no state, who is going to apply a "progressive and aggressive taxation"?

Here are the 10 planks. You tell me how that is somehow going to result in a stateless society:

1. Abolition of private property in land and application of all
rents of land to public purpose.

2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.

3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.

4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.

5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the state, by means
of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive
monopoly.

6. Centralization of the means of communication and
transportation in the hands of the state.

7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned
by the state; the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and
the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a
common plan.

8. Equal obligation of all to work. Establishment of Industrial
armies, especially for agriculture.

9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries;
gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country
by a more equable distribution of the population over the
country.

10. Free education for all children in government schools.
Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form.
Combination of education with industrial production, etc. etc.

This is not copied from any Fox news outlet. This is directly taken out of the communist manifesto.

Again, you should actually read what you're talking about, first. What you're talking about are in the very initial, first stages of transitioning into socialism. There is still a state at this point, and it is changed, and used to the benefit of the working class, instead of the rich. This is not communism, or even the end goal of communism. Again, you're just going off of silly misrepresentations of something that you've never been bothered to read, but have been told it's extremely bad, because reasons. If you would've even read the few brief paragraphs above this list, you would've realized this.

 

[carvesg]

We are getting away from Musk's gestures and statements.

Maybe a thread about political science and history would be required

 

[bombs]

People can do intentional acts without us knowing what their motives are. That isn’t a contradiction. We may not know what he was thinking and his reasons for doing it, especially as I would say most of us can’t read others minds, but what he did was absolutely intentional. It wasn’t a mistake and it wasn’t his autism. I’m pretty sure whatever his reasons for doing what he did, he knew some people would defend him, while others criticized him.

So given that you believe this was premeditated, what possible motive would there be, given there has really been no (or very little) evidence up to this point of his political view points that would justify such assumptions? What possible reason would one have be so bold as to intentionally reveal his deep dark aspirations to the world? It makes absolutely zero sense especially given the delicate nature of his professional position in the world.

Ockham's razor, I believe, holds true given he expressed his gratitude, made the gesture, then said his heart goes out to everyone that helped to make this (the election) happen. Despite the pre and post reinforcement, those that see rather than think wish to create fantasy to reinforce their own biases. I have no love for Mr. Musk, so this is not a defence of him but rather a defence of sensible observation. Agree to disagree then.

 

[LLLurkJ2]

So given that you believe this was premeditated, what possible motive would there be, given there has really been no (or very little) evidence up to this point of his political view points that would justify such assumptions? What possible reason would one have be so bold as to intentionally reveal his deep dark aspirations to the world? It makes absolutely zero sense especially given the delicate nature of his professional position in the world.

Ockham's razor, I believe, holds true given he expressed his gratitude, made the gesture, then said his heart goes out to everyone that helped to make this (the election) happen. Despite the pre and post reinforcement, those that see rather than think wish to create fantasy to reinforce their own biases. I have no love for Mr. Musk, so this is not a defence of him but rather a defence of sensible observation. Agree to disagree then.

The simple solution is for Musk to disavow Nazis, but hes too afraid to loose the support of the Nazis in the conservative coalition. And if hes at the table with 9 other Nazis and doesnt have a problem with it then....hes as good as a Nazi, even if hes really merely 'a fascist' .

 

[ChromeGasCap]

There is no benefit to disavowing or explaining, for Elon.
It is in his best interest to keep the argument going.
Not even convinced this is a planned strategy on his part.
As a matter of fact, I do not suspect he is capable of strategy on this level.

EDIT: But it works!

 

[sexpanther69]

How can you say that his gesture was "absolutely intensional" while also claiming you can't read minds?

Wouldn't you need to read his mind to absolutely know for a fact that it was intensional?

I think you have a hatred of Musk, and likely also an hatred of Trump, and you desperately want them to be Nazis.

I think it's ridiculous. The absurd idea of calling anyone you disagree with as Nazi or racist is getting old.

The AfD, which Musk had previously voiced his support for, has been labelled a suspected extremist organization by Germany's national security services

"There is too much focus on past guilt, and we need to move beyond that," Musk said, adding that he considered the anti-immigration, anti-cultural integration party, "the best hope for Germany."

It's good to be proud of German culture, German values, and not to lose that in some sort of multiculturalism that dilutes everything," said Musk,

Lol, yah sounds like a guys whose not

" He gave the remarks just days after police in Germany said they were investigating the projection of large-scale images of Musk making a gesture reminiscent of the Nazi salute onto a Tesla factory outside Berlin. Musk made the gesture twice at an inauguration event for President Trump at the beginning of last week.

A U.K. campaign group and a German satirical group have taken responsibility for the projections.

Any display of Nazi symbols is against federal law in Germany"

So if it's not a nazi salute why are the German police investigating a digital image of the salute that was plastered on his tesla factory

No point in arguing with ppl that can't even call out a racist salute .. Like talkin to children

 

[masterpoonhunter]

The main topic here is that Elon Musk is most certainly as fascist as the convicted rapist felon and likely is a Nazi.
Despite what the various here try to state to defend and deflect the topic.
The sidebar 'discussions' do not offer any defence for him.

 

[VanCityNewb]

Please explain how an all powerful and taxing state that controls everything is going to somehow result in a stateless society.

Either Marx was delusional, or he sold you a bridge.

Given that no socialist or communist state has ever evolved in a stateless anything, you might have problems explaining it with real world examples.

Care to share those few brief paragraphs with me?

There was literally an entire book written that answers this exact question. The same one I've been telling you to read. 🤦‍♂️ 🤣

 

[LLLurkJ2]

I think the vast majority of those who like Musk think it's absurd to say it was a Nazi salute. I think those who don't care or are impartial to Musk will not conclude it was a Nazi salute.
I think the only people who see a Nazi salute are driven by their hatred of Musk and Trump.

They already hate Musk. Their Nazi accusations only make them look absurd.

So I think Musk should have just ignored them. Let them bury themselves in their own bullshit.

BTW, I'm no fan of Musk. I'm impartial to him, and I don't care about him one bit.

Stop acting like the word police. We can call anybody anything we want snowflake.

Prof G said "I'll show the right half the consideration they've shown the left. And half of zero is zero"

 

[kelcaine]

So given that you believe this was premeditated, what possible motive would there be, given there has really been no (or very little) evidence up to this point of his political view points that would justify such assumptions? What possible reason would one have be so bold as to intentionally reveal his deep dark aspirations to the world? It makes absolutely zero sense especially given the delicate nature of his professional position in the world.

Ockham's razor, I believe, holds true given he expressed his gratitude, made the gesture, then said his heart goes out to everyone that helped to make this (the election) happen. Despite the pre and post reinforcement, those that see rather than think wish to create fantasy to reinforce their own biases. I have no love for Mr. Musk, so this is not a defence of him but rather a defence of sensible observation. Agree to disagree then.

I do not necessarily think Musk is a Nazi or has deep dark aspirations for the world, as you have stated here. I do think he did this to possibly see what he could get away with as the richest man in the world now connected to Trump and the White House and what is happening in the USA right now. I think it’s quite possible he did this to get a reaction out of people and knowing this would cause more division, where some people are defending him, while others are criticizing him. His excuse of it being “giving his heart out to people” and reinstating this makes many people criticizing him to many MAGA and extreme right agree with him, seeing those people criticizing him as wrong or even threats.

Also since this has happened there as been white supremacist groups applauding Musk, and who have come out Marching in streets in the USA, and one woman mimicked Musks salute in a Tik tok video who is a Republican saying she did it to “stir the pot” but had so much criticism she stepped down from her job position. The very act of the richest and one of the most powerful men in the world doing a Nazi salute in front of billions watching and getting away with it, emboldens actual Nazis and white supremacists, and maybe this was him beginning an attempt at normalizing this salute again?

Also Trump has not spoken on this or condemned Musk for this, so this shows to me this is concerning and shows that it was quite possibly planned out by Trump as well. Trump and Musk both do things to continue to divide people, and I think honestly that is one of their biggest goals. When people are divided and fighting amongst themselves it’s easier to control them and even take them over. This is one of the steps in the Dictators handbook, for anyone seeking tyranny of any measure.

Again I never said and don’t honestly know if Trump or Musk are Nazis but they are not about bringing people together and do things to shock, make people talk about them and divide people. This I do know.

 

[kelcaine]

How can you say that his gesture was "absolutely intensional" while also claiming you can't read minds?

Wouldn't you need to read his mind to absolutely know for a fact that it was intensional?

I think you have a hatred of Musk, and likely also an hatred of Trump, and you desperately want them to be Nazis.

I think it's ridiculous. The absurd idea of calling anyone you disagree with as Nazi or racist is getting old.

You don’t need to read minds to know that someone does something intentionally. I was a teacher for many years and you need to get pretty good with reading people and knowing if things were done intentionally or by accident. Also if this was indeed true what you’re saying courts would not be able to prove motive, intent and if something was premeditated unless lawyers could read minds.

I also never said that Musk was a Nazi. I honestly don’t know if he is or not. No I don’t like Trump or Musk, aside from politics I think they are horrible human beings that have no empathy for others and only care about themselves and their wealth growing.

 

[luvsdaty]

 

[Badman888]

Oh yes a wave and a salute, the exact same 🤡🤡🤡

"If it's my guy then it's a friendly wave, if it's not my guy then it's a Nazi salute"