interesting question of ethics

[schizo_man]

saw this on a web site, I'd like to read people's responses.

If you knew a woman who was pregnant, who had 8 kids
already, three who were deaf, two who were blind, one mentally
retarded, and she had syphilis; would you recommend that she have
an abortion?

 

[Smother]

Not my place too say....but ..



NO!!

 

[LonelyGhost]

saw this on a web site, I'd like to read people's responses.

If you knew a woman who was pregnant, who had 8 kids
already, three who were deaf, two who were blind, one mentally
retarded, and she had syphilis; would you recommend that she have
an abortion?

I don't see any difference between this kind of discrimination and asking if 'you know a black woman who was pregnant and had 8 kids would you recommend she have an abortion!'

Its unfortunate that you find people with disabilities offensive and unworthy of life, because they are first and foremost human.

Maybe you will do the right thing and remove this post.

 

[OldieButGoodie]

Its unfortunate that you find people with disabilities offensive and unworthy of life, because they are first and foremost human.

Maybe you will do the right thing and remove this post.

Get off your high horse, Lonely Ghost.
Where in schizo's post does he say he finds anyone offensive or unworthy??

He's posing the question, that's all.

 

[LonelyGhost]

Get off your high horse, Lonely Ghost.
Where in schizo's post does he say he finds anyone offensive or unworthy??

He's posing the question, that's all.

a question he would NOT pose if she was Black or Chinese or Aboriginal ...

 

[schizo_man]

I don't see any difference between this kind of discrimination and asking if 'you know a black woman who was pregnant and had 8 kids would you recommend she have an abortion!'

Its unfortunate that you find people with disabilities offensive and unworthy of life, because they are first and foremost human.

Maybe you will do the right thing and remove this post.

wow I didn't see that response coming, I'll have to admit. Nowhere did I state that. For your information I myself am physically disabled, so please read the post entirely and take your opinions and shove'em where they belong

Get off your high horse, Lonely Ghost.
Where in schizo's post does he say he finds anyone offensive or unworthy??

He's posing the question, that's all.

exactly.

 

[schizo_man]

actually it's beethovan spoil sport

 

[LonelyGhost]

take your opinions and shove'em where they belong

very mature.

Take a moment to educate yourself on the Eugenics movement in the US and in Europe that led the Nazis to perfect their 'euthenazia' methods on people with physical and mental disabilities ... and to perfect their propoganda of 'lesser races' based on Eugenics to apply to Jews, Poles, Ukranians, etc.

Posing this question is offensive in what it implies ... and I doubt that you would post it if it referred to any 'race' ...

if it was simply a woman with syphillus and should she get an abortion, it raises the question of when do individual rights end and societal rights begin? Many physicians wrestle with the 'ethics' of terminating fetuses when there are problems: perhaps you would care to read about the debate surrounding the test for Down's Syndrome and terminating when the symptom is present.

Or the Chinese terminating only female fetuses?

Perhaps we should be asking you if you feel you have the right to have kids since you have a physical disability?

 

[OldieButGoodie]

a question he would NOT pose if she was Black or Chinese or Aboriginal ...

As per the topic, it's an interesting question of ethics.
I'll not speak for schizo as to his reason for posting it, but one thing you can learn from reading people's answers is where they stand ethically on a few possible issues.

I see where Smother and Szabina's ethics are.
As for you, I see where you have a reading comprehension problem.

Besides, if you read the question as it is posed, who's to say any affliction the children have was not inherited from the father (or fathers?)

 

[schizo_man]

very mature.

Take a moment to educate yourself on the Eugenics movement in the US and in Europe that led the Nazis to perfect their 'euthenazia' methods on people with physical and mental disabilities ... and to perfect their propoganda of 'lesser races' based on Eugenics to apply to Jews, Poles, Ukranians, etc.

Posing this question is offensive in what it implies ... and I doubt that you would post it if it referred to any 'race' ...

if it was simply a woman with syphillus and should she get an abortion, it raises the question of when do individual rights end and societal rights begin? Many physicians wrestle with the 'ethics' of terminating fetuses when there are problems: perhaps you would care to read about the debate surrounding the test for Down's Syndrome and terminating when the symptom is present.

Or the Chinese terminating only female fetuses?

Perhaps we should be asking you if you feel you have the right to have kids since you have a physical disability?

Holy, testy a bit? Ladies help this guy out, he's got some built up tension here.
I am 100% familiar with the ethical discussions re. the rights of individuals with disabilities #1. because I have one, #2 I have chosen to work in a field that empowers people with disabilities to live their lives as they choose, and as such I continually educate myself, so get off your fucking high horse. I have in no way indicated that was the way I feel and if you would take a moment and realize that my purpose was to show that abortion may not be the right path to take, just because the child may have difficulties in life. If that lady had chosen to abort her child, the world would have missed out on hearing beethovan's music.

Btw, what have YOU done to help individuals with disabilities improve their lives? What have you done when you've heard people laughing at that fellow walking with cerebral palsy? What have you done to make that person with Down's Syndrome feel that they are appreciated and worthwhile? If you are a business owner, have you hired any people with developmental disabilities and PAID them the same as you would another employee? Or do you see them as people, yet just a little below you?

 

[LonelyGhost]

my purpose was to show that abortion may not be the right path to take, just because the child may have difficulties in life. If that lady had chosen to abort her child, the world would have missed out on hearing beethovan's music.

this 'question' is not about 'ethics' its about imposing restrictions on a woman's right to decide the fate of her own body ... if we made similar impositions on men's bodies it would be outright war!

Btw, what have YOU done to help individuals with disabilities improve their lives? Or do you see them as people, yet just a little below you?

So if you help people you also have the right to decide what they can and cannot do with their lives? That's very patriarchal of you.

And you still haven't answered a simple question: would you have posted the same ethical question if the woman was black?

 

[old pooner]

Btw, what have YOU done to help individuals with disabilities improve their lives? What have you done when you've heard people laughing at that fellow walking with cerebral palsy? What have you done to make that person with Down's Syndrome feel that they are appreciated and worthwhile? If you are a business owner, have you hired any people with developmental disabilities and PAID them the same as you would another employee? Or do you see them as people, yet just a little below you?

I work with a man who has a neurological impairment. When he talks, he sounds like he is drunk. But when you stop to listen to what he is saying, he is one of the brightest people I know. I honestly feel that I have always tried to look at people with disabilities, as being people with a lot more challenges to face than I do. ("I cried because I had no shoes, until I met a man who had no feet.")

 

[schizo_man]

this 'question' is not about 'ethics' its about imposing restrictions on a woman's right to decide the fate of her own body ... if we made similar impositions on men's bodies it would be outright war!

So what part of that makes this a non ethical question?

So if you help people you also have the right to decide what they can and cannot do with their lives? That's very patriarchal of you.

Hmm nice to see that you avoided my questions directed at you. And no, I don't make the decisions for them, I listen when they have made an informed choice and then advocate on their behalf, if required. I help them gather the needed information in order to make the decision, yes.
SOME people require some help.

And you still haven't answered a simple question: would you have posted the same ethical question if the woman was black?

ummm ya, because this isn't a race issue. also, by identifying this as a ethical question you negated your first comment.

ps. Im not going to discuss this furthur with you, as it's pointless to do so. All I intended was for there to be some discussion, not attacks. Peace out.

 

[old pooner]

Its unfortunate that you find people with disabilities offensive and unworthy of life, because they are first and foremost human.
...........
this 'question' is not about 'ethics' its about imposing restrictions on a woman's right to decide the fate of her own body ... if we made similar impositions on men's bodies it would be outright war!

So I take it from these responses that you do not see a fetus as a human being, with no right to life.

 

[LonelyGhost]

So I take it from these responses that you do not see a fetus as a human being, with no right to life.

No matter what I say, it will be the wrong answer for you, however:

Since I am NOT the person who has to take responsibility for this 'potential' human being for the rest of his or her life, my 'opinion' on the matter doesn't matter.

Yet, if I was the father of this 'potential' human being AND I wanted to take responsibility, then I would prefer that opportunity, but I'm not the one who has to carry the child to term, to have the risks associated with pregnancy, to bring a child into this world who may not be wanted by his or her mother ...

So I still believe in and unequivocally support a woman's right to decide no matter what I might feel about the decision.

 

[LonelyGhost]

All I intended was for there to be some discussion, not attacks. Peace out.

I did open a discussion, you were the one who decided to tell me to 'shove it!'

 

[ScottyTwoHotty]

saw this on a web site, I'd like to read people's responses.

If you knew a woman who was pregnant, who had 8 kids
already, three who were deaf, two who were blind, one mentally
retarded, and she had syphilis; would you recommend that she have
an abortion?

NO!
If so, I wouldn't be here today. Mom wasn't that bad. Sure she was a little twitchy and talked with a lisp, but she was a good woman. Yes there were times she dropped me as a baby (maybe tossed me around), but she was full of love.
Becuz ma was so special, I growed up ta be a gud guy wif lotsa brainz.

 

[missing link]

I read somwhere that certain governments are planning to require parents to be licensed for the right to procreate. This is to control population...and weed out all the bad genes that keep being passed on. You will have to undergo a physical..as well family health history and income will be taken into account.

I like the idea personally.

 

[SweetDoc]

I read somwhere that certain governments are planning to require parents to be licensed for the right to procreate. This is to control population...and weed out all the bad genes that keep being passed on. You will have to undergo a physical..as well family health history and income will be taken into account.

I like the idea personally.

I don't like the idea at all. Who knows, the next greatest advocate for peace or enlightenment might come from 2 parents who didn't meet those standards. The kid might also be the next Hitler but I'm willing to take the risk. I'm not offended by people who think the way you do, as I see some of it's benefits. But in the end it is still a system of control and would cause major violent backlash in the future.

And btw, about the main topic. I would seriously want that lady to get her tubes tied. I think that the 8 kids + the 1 she will have is more than enough for her to handle, especially if they are special needs. I really question the quality of life these kids will have considering there are so many and most need extra attention. Knowing that, I wonder if she herself is suitable to be raising these kids considering it doesn't seem to matter to her that she probably can't properly take care of that many special needs kids 24/7.

And about the racial crap that LG is talking about. It's not really part of the issue. I would be asking the same question whether she was black, white, red, yellow, whatever, because the issue isn't race at all. Please don't turn this thread into something it's not. I don't know what your issue is, but I'd rather not deal with it in this thread.

Respectfully,
SD

 

[aznboi9]

If you knew a woman who was pregnant, who had 8 kids
already, three who were deaf, two who were blind, one mentally
retarded, and she had syphilis; would you recommend that she have
an abortion?

Even though I'm generally against abortion (not for religious reasons although they always seem to take the forefront of the debate) I was actually leaning towards yes. But then I read this:

actually it's beethovan spoil sport

Which steered me right back to the no side. Touche, schizo. Interestingly, a lot of the responses so far seem to be on the pro-life side of things, which surprised me. Good post.