Harmony, 40% isn't majority! But do you know how many people are qualified voters? How many are actually care to come out to vote?
Simply, they lose faith to the system!
Simply, they lose faith to the system!
In Just a Few Hours Harpers Fascist Hold of Canada will be Over
- Thread starter Fudd
- Start date
Pretty good when we have 5 party's to choose from. This isn't USA when we have only 2 choices. Even then its usually a 52/48 vote.
If you work some lame shitty job...very little point in voting since your situation (taxes and opportunity) is likely to stay the same...I thought most Canadians were smarter than this. I do know tons of people that didn't vote though. If I know tons, I'm sure other people know people that didn't vote.
Fantasitc result.
Now the government can actually get some things done in this country such as trashing the useless gun registry, getting tough on crime and criminals including the Youth Justice Act the Liberals handed us, continuing to strengthen the economy with tax cuts so people and corporations have more money to spend, etc.
The Liberals got what they deserved. They tried to parachute in this "intellectual" from Harvard who nobody really knew and with no real political credentials. Then they tried to line him up against Jack Layton as the real choice against Harper. People didn't fall for it. With Layton, agree or disagree, you knew what you are getting. With Ignatieff no one knew because he constantly spoke out of both sides of his mouth.
I am very glad to see the Bloc go down. I never liked the fact that a party hell bent on separation had official party status in the Parliment of Canada.
As for the NDP, I'm glad to see Jack Layton get his shot as the official opposition. I might disagree with his politics but I respect he stands up for his ideals and does what he says. That said he's gone from the best job in politics (leader of a distant 3rd party so he could say what ever he liked with no risk of ever having to actually do it) to the worst job (having to try and oppose a majority government with 75% rookie MP's). I wonder how he'll do?
Now for the budget.
Now the government can actually get some things done in this country such as trashing the useless gun registry, getting tough on crime and criminals including the Youth Justice Act the Liberals handed us, continuing to strengthen the economy with tax cuts so people and corporations have more money to spend, etc.
The Liberals got what they deserved. They tried to parachute in this "intellectual" from Harvard who nobody really knew and with no real political credentials. Then they tried to line him up against Jack Layton as the real choice against Harper. People didn't fall for it. With Layton, agree or disagree, you knew what you are getting. With Ignatieff no one knew because he constantly spoke out of both sides of his mouth.
I am very glad to see the Bloc go down. I never liked the fact that a party hell bent on separation had official party status in the Parliment of Canada.
As for the NDP, I'm glad to see Jack Layton get his shot as the official opposition. I might disagree with his politics but I respect he stands up for his ideals and does what he says. That said he's gone from the best job in politics (leader of a distant 3rd party so he could say what ever he liked with no risk of ever having to actually do it) to the worst job (having to try and oppose a majority government with 75% rookie MP's). I wonder how he'll do?
Now for the budget.
Fairest? Not really, only if your party won a plurality or has geographical luck. First past the post is generally considered the worst out of the different methods of electing government officials.
So many interesting story lines in this election.
I am pleased to see that the Conservatives have finally formed a majority. While I personally don't like the concept of phony majorities based on 40% of the popular vote, our system does not function properly with minority governments. So now the Conservatives have a free hand to govern and we will have an opportunity in 4-5 years to hold them accountable based on their record, which is the way our system works best.
The wipe-out of the Liberals to that degree is surprising but not completely unexpected. Their problem as I see it is that they don't really stand for anything in particular and Ignatieff was a terrible choice for leader.
While I would never support the Greens, I am happy to see that Elizabeth May got in.
Also very pleased to see the decimation of the Bloc. But on the other hand I am alarmed that such a large proportion of my fellow countrymen are so ignorant of economics that they support the socialist NDP. Or is it more a case of being uncomfortable with the perceived social conservatism of the Conservatives and thus a protest vote rather than an endorsement of socialism? I would love to hear from NDP voters to get their reasons for voting the way they did, and why they chose NDP over Liberals.
I am pleased to see that the Conservatives have finally formed a majority. While I personally don't like the concept of phony majorities based on 40% of the popular vote, our system does not function properly with minority governments. So now the Conservatives have a free hand to govern and we will have an opportunity in 4-5 years to hold them accountable based on their record, which is the way our system works best.
The wipe-out of the Liberals to that degree is surprising but not completely unexpected. Their problem as I see it is that they don't really stand for anything in particular and Ignatieff was a terrible choice for leader.
While I would never support the Greens, I am happy to see that Elizabeth May got in.
Also very pleased to see the decimation of the Bloc. But on the other hand I am alarmed that such a large proportion of my fellow countrymen are so ignorant of economics that they support the socialist NDP. Or is it more a case of being uncomfortable with the perceived social conservatism of the Conservatives and thus a protest vote rather than an endorsement of socialism? I would love to hear from NDP voters to get their reasons for voting the way they did, and why they chose NDP over Liberals.
Re proportional representation: I have lived under both "proportional representation" and "first past the post". In the former situation, one is not represented by any particular party member and there is often no one to whom one can appeal when one is confronted by a genuine problem. Furthermore, the elected representatives tend to be more loyal to their party than to individual citizens. And, because there is so much supposed representation, even from minor parties with a low percentage of the total vote, the assembly of government is constantly compromising while being exploited by parties based on a single principle. As a result, it's almost impossible to get anything major done. Government is constantly at loggerheads. As to the "first past the post" system, with all its flaws, at least each of us has a representative to whom we might appeal should we be confronted by a problem or should we need to make an impact.
I am pleased with the outcome of this election. First of all, I am a conservative and now Stephen Harper has an opportunity to put his principles into play without having to constantly look "behind his back". I look forward to seeing what he can, and will, do.
I am especially pleased that the untoward voice of the Bloc Quebecois has been decimated. The idea that so much prominence has been awarded to a party whose main reason for existence was the separation of the province of Quebec from the rest of us seemed untenable. The outright bribery of having to keep them satisfied always seemed unjust vis a vis the rest of the country.
Like "whoisjohngalt", I, too, am pleased that Elizabeth May will be represented in Parliament. Perhaps she will bring a new kind of creative energy to the mix. Of course, her social and international policies are very much opposed to the conservatives but I wouldn't mind that her perspective have an opportunity to be formally vetted.
I am especially pleased that the untoward voice of the Bloc Quebecois has been decimated. The idea that so much prominence has been awarded to a party whose main reason for existence was the separation of the province of Quebec from the rest of us seemed untenable. The outright bribery of having to keep them satisfied always seemed unjust vis a vis the rest of the country.
Like "whoisjohngalt", I, too, am pleased that Elizabeth May will be represented in Parliament. Perhaps she will bring a new kind of creative energy to the mix. Of course, her social and international policies are very much opposed to the conservatives but I wouldn't mind that her perspective have an opportunity to be formally vetted.
My vote was definitely a protest vote against the social conservatism of the CPC -- and I don't believe it is only "perceived." Any party that attracts the fundamentalists -- and has them in their caucus -- creationists in cabinet! --- is so far removed from my beliefs that I could never support them. My social beliefs are completely libertarian -- we should be able to ingest whatever substances we want; women should have control over their bodies; I should be able to have assistance to end my life if I am helpless to do it myself -- and the CPC is the farthest possible from my convictions. I don't care about freedom of religion -- I want freedom from religion.
For me, that trumps the perceived "socialism" of the NDP (and they don't conform with my beliefs either), and I have serious doubts about the economic management record of the CPC that seems to be accepted by so many. Combined with Harper's contempt of any dissenting opinion and his handling of democracy, it is a no-brainer for me.
Interesting response. I too am libertarian when it comes to social issues, yet I came to the exact opposite conclusion. I fear the socialism of the NDP (and it is not only perceived) much more than the fringe kooks in the Conservative party who will never have the opportunity to set the agenda under Steven Harper, who if you look at his personal history is more of a fiscal conservative than a socon. If Stockwell Day was stil leader I might feel differently though.
How'd that work out for ya?Just about another hour and the polls close. Harpers fascist reign will be over. And it not soon enough. Take a look at the damage he's done to Canada in just a few short years.
He turned a peace keeping mission in Afganistian into a bloody occupations and a military disaster for Canada. The biggest mistake he made was not listening common sense and letting his megalomaniac ego take over. He started a war with of all people the Taliban. Remember, this is the bunch that beat the crap out of the Russian Army, kicked the British Army out and survived the onslaught of the US Air Force, the most powerful and advance nation in the world.
Jack Layton (soon to be Prime Minister Layton
Of course he uses the excuse that his war is a war on terror and he is "protecting" Canadian. But remember, up until we start the war, the Taliban were never a threat to any Canadian. An even if they were a threat to Canada, what Harper from a military stand point was completely stupid. We are sending troops to into the Taliban's own teritory where they know the lay of the land and have the military advantage. If the Taliban really were a threat, we are better of having our troops at home defending our own teritory where we have the advantage.
Harper also screwed up the economy royally. Take a look the the shear number of unemployed people. And instead of taxing the rich and corporations to help with the poor and unemployed, the idiot give them a tax break. He even cut the GST which created a massive deficit. He even has the nerve to call his policy a success. How the fuck does this idiot define success, by the number of people he made homeless.
WHO has the majority? It's out system, you know how it works
Bet you didn't complain when Cretien won with 38% did you?
IF you are mad at your friends for not voting and calling them stupid, fine, sorryI have the right to be mad at my friends who have the same belief system as me, but are either too apathetic or lazy too vote. grr. If everyone voted, Harper would probably not have got in again.
Harper represents everything, I don't. Its depressing. I'm just a free spirit flower child. I'm a product of hippie parents. I am more upset with my friends that didn't vote
Yep
It isn't
However, if you are calling those that voted CPC stupid for making their own choice based on their own beliefs and values then we will disagree
Why don't you talk about how the Liberals supported such a corrupt CPC for all those years?
Political ads? All of them are full of BS, want me to shred your Liberal and NDP ads for you? About the only 100% true ad was the NDP ad on attendence, EXCELLENT
Why are those that vote CPC the only ones that fall for hogwash? Tell me which party cut health care funding and robbed UIC benefits to balance the budget? They all play with the truth, not one of them gives real data
Want to argue crime statistics, not a problem. Stats are fun I too can twist numbers all day, but instead of "rates" lets talk "hard" numbers. But answer this question. If a criminal if convicted and serves their entire sentance behind bars, have they the opportunity to re-offend?
As for the fighter, which party signed the agreement to actually fund the development without a cent in return? There currently is nothing better for facing technically adept foes like the Russians and Chinese who ae looking at out Northern waters to exploit. Trouble is, long lead time and such a piddly number
Personally, we would be better of with Gripen or Super Hornets and UAV's so amazingly, we agree, OY!
Depends on the system. If you're using Mixed-member proportional (New Zealand, Germany) or Single Transferable Vote (Ireland), then you still retain local constituencies.
With regards to minor parties with low percentages, in the former system, fringe elements can be excluded by setting a higher minimum threshold to elect representatives (Germany uses 5%, I think); in the latter, the preferential ballot used in STV means that fringe parties, unable to get support outside of their core, tend to be excluded as well.
With respect to party loyalty, it again depends on the system. One of the criticisms of STV is that it breaks the party hold too much, so that local issues trump party loyalty. As such, party loyalty is a problem with first past the post as well.
Oh fuck off. There are 80 countries that use proportional representation and every time the topic comes up, there's guaranteed to be some dipshit that chirps up with the same Italy/Israel comment. Interesting that you don't mention Sweden and Denmark, who both use the same system as Israel or Germany and New Zealand, who use the same system as Italy did.
How about this? Do you prefer that we be like Afghanistan and Uganda?
Sorry tp burst your bubble but it will actually be four years of Harper not one. You should atleast know how government works in Canada before you complain about it.
BTW if Canada is so bad please feel free to move to Cuba, Venezuela, China, North Korea or any other ass backwards all left all the time country. I know people are risking life and limb to get in to all of those countries.
