I think we might all be more effective here if we considered these aspects of effective

[freakydeaky1]

I expect to receive mounds of ridicule for posting this, but even if one person learns from it, it’ll be worth receiving all the hate I’m opening myself up to. If it’s what we all want, perhaps we’d build a healthier community here that is more inviting to less confident people in real need of help and guidance, rather than frighten them away for fear of being shamed, ridiculed or otherwise dismissed with literally ZERO empathy or compassion, especially when making themselves vulnerable with authentic sharing about their personal concerns.

A little mercy can go a long way. Life is tough out here for some of us, and this is a new world for many, so I encourage all of us to try to treat everyone as well as we might request of them when suggesting they see your favorite new provider.

🙏🏼🫶🏼🪷

Defending the argument

Defending your argument is just as important as presenting it. Here are some strategies for effectively defending your argument:

1. Use evidence and logical reasoning: Evidence and logical reasoning are key to making a strong argument. Use relevant facts, statistics, and examples to support your position, and use logical reasoning to connect your evidence to your main claim

By using evidence and logical reasoning, you can build a convincing argument that is grounded in facts and reason.

1. Anticipate objections: Anticipating objections can help you to prepare effective counter-arguments. Put yourself in the shoes of your opponent and try to think of potential objections or counter-arguments they may raise. Be prepared to address these objections with evidence and logical reasoning.
2. Avoid fallacies: Fallacies are errors in reasoning that can weaken your argument. Common fallacies include ad hominem attacks, straw man arguments, and false dichotomies. Be aware of these fallacies and avoid them in your argument.

Here are some examples:

• Ad hominem: Attacking the character or personal traits of your opponent instead of addressing their argument.
• Straw man: Misrepresenting your opponent’s argument in order to make it easier to attack.
• False dichotomy: Presenting only two options when there are actually more.

In any context, it’s important to avoid these fallacies in order to make a strong, persuasive argument. By staying focused on the facts and avoiding personal attacks or misrepresentations, you can demonstrate the value of your proposal in a clear and compelling way.

1. Acknowledge the opponent’s views: Acknowledging your opponent’s views can help to build credibility and create a sense of respect. Even if you disagree with their position, try to understand their perspective and acknowledge the points that they make..
2. Provide alternative evidence or counter-examples: Providing alternative evidence or counter-examples can help to strengthen your argument and refute counter-arguments. Use relevant facts, statistics, or examples to support your position and show why your argument is more persuasive.

By using these strategies, you can effectively defend your argument and persuade others to see things your way. Remember to stay calm and composed, and to avoid getting defensive or emotional. By remaining confident and logical, you can effectively defend your argument and convince others to accept your position.

Dealing with emotional reactions

Presenting and defending an argument can be an emotional process, for both the writer and the audience.

Here are some tips for managing emotional reactions:

1. Stay calm and respectful: If you encounter emotional reactions during your p, it’s important to stay calm and respectful. Avoid getting defensive or angry, and try to remain objective and rational in your responses.

An interesting example is if you are presenting an argument in a forum online, and a member of the audience replies to your statement with a personal attack or insult. In this situation, it can be tempting to respond with a similar attack or to become defensive, but this will only escalate the situation and detract from the argument being presented. Instead, you should calmly address the interruption and steer the conversation back to the topic at hand. For example, you could say something like, “I understand that this is a sensitive topic, but let’s focus on the facts and evidence at hand to have a productive discussion.” By staying calm and respectful, you can maintain credibility and effectively defend your position.

1. Use empathetic language: Using empathetic language can help to defuse emotional reactions and create a sense of understanding. Show that you understand the emotions of the audience or your opponent, and use language that demonstrates your empathy and compassion.

A good example is when you are discussing a controversial topic such as sex work. Instead of using language that might be perceived as attacking or dismissive, use empathetic language that acknowledges the emotional weight of the issue for both sides. For instance, saying “I understand that this is a deeply personal and emotional issue for many people” can help to create a more respectful and productive conversation, rather than immediately diving into arguments and counter-arguments.

1. Recognize and address underlying issues: Sometimes, emotional reactions can be a sign of underlying issues that are not directly related to your argument. If you sense that there are deeper emotions or issues at play, try to address these concerns in a respectful and empathetic way.

An interesting example is when engaged in a thread on a controversial topic, a member in the group becomes obviously upset and begins to stack your point. Instead of ignoring or dismissing their reaction, the writer takes a moment to acknowledge their emotion and asks if they would like to share their concerns. The group member then explains that they have personal experience with the issue at hand and feel that their perspective has been ignored. The writer reads mindfully and responds with empathy, acknowledging the validity of their experience and promising to consider it in their argument. By addressing the underlying issue and showing empathy, the speaker is able to defuse the emotional reaction and create a more constructive discussion.

1. Take a break if necessary: If emotions become too heated, it may be necessary to take a break and regroup. Allow time for both yourself and the other to calm down, and resume the discussion when emotions have subsided.

Overall, by managing emotional reactions in a calm and respectful manner, you can create a more productive and effective discussion. Remember that emotions are a natural part of the human experience, and that acknowledging and addressing them can lead to better communication and understanding.

Conclusion
At its core, effective argumentation is about more than just winning a debate or proving a point. It’s about building trust, fostering understanding, and working towards common goals.

By approaching argumentation with an open mind and a willingness to listen and learn, we can create more meaningful and productive discussions, and ultimately make better decisions.

And always remember that the key to effective argumentation is not just about winning, but about finding common ground and moving forward together.

 

[carvesg]

Good reminder ! I sure hope it sticks.

Online lack of accountability is problematic on any forum and even social media where people forget that family, friends and relatives read their postings

 

[freakydeaky1]

Good reminder ! I sure hope it sticks.

Online lack of accountability is problematic on any forum and even social media where people forget that family, friends and relatives read their postings

To be fair, I was inspired to look this up after going thru the lounge threads and found the incel article. Not so much about the flame ups I found between members here. Mostly everyone is fairly respectful even when disagreeing, but rarely do any people who disagree ever find a way to reach a common ground before they start dumping on each others opinion and the mods shut it down - which I think they are great at doing.

If anyone needs a good laugh go through the 38 pages of perbatory. I don’t think I’ve laughed that hard out loud in quite some time.

 

[OF_manager]

Good reminder ! I sure hope it sticks.

Online lack of accountability is problematic on any forum and even social media where people forget that family, friends and relatives read their postings

Theres also some people on here who don't like when others use mean words, being overly judgemental or act in a bad way, unless they themselves (or someone they agree with) are the ones doing it.

It's good to think about your own actions sometimes, so you don't end up being hypocritical.

 

[80watts]

I expect to receive mounds of ridicule for posting this, but even if one person learns from it, it’ll be worth receiving all the hate I’m opening myself up to. If it’s what we all want, perhaps we’d build a healthier community here that is more inviting to less confident people in real need of help and guidance, rather than frighten them away for fear of being shamed, ridiculed or otherwise dismissed with literally ZERO empathy or compassion, especially when making themselves vulnerable with authentic sharing about their personal concerns.

A little mercy can go a long way. Life is tough out here for some of us, and this is a new world for many, so I encourage all of us to try to treat everyone as well as we might request of them when suggesting they see your favorite new provider.

🙏🏼🫶🏼🪷

Defending the argument

Defending your argument is just as important as presenting it. Here are some strategies for effectively defending your argument:

1. Use evidence and logical reasoning: Evidence and logical reasoning are key to making a strong argument. Use relevant facts, statistics, and examples to support your position, and use logical reasoning to connect your evidence to your main claim

By using evidence and logical reasoning, you can build a convincing argument that is grounded in facts and reason.

1. Anticipate objections: Anticipating objections can help you to prepare effective counter-arguments. Put yourself in the shoes of your opponent and try to think of potential objections or counter-arguments they may raise. Be prepared to address these objections with evidence and logical reasoning.
2. Avoid fallacies: Fallacies are errors in reasoning that can weaken your argument. Common fallacies include ad hominem attacks, straw man arguments, and false dichotomies. Be aware of these fallacies and avoid them in your argument.

Here are some examples:

• Ad hominem: Attacking the character or personal traits of your opponent instead of addressing their argument.
• Straw man: Misrepresenting your opponent’s argument in order to make it easier to attack.
• False dichotomy: Presenting only two options when there are actually more.

In any context, it’s important to avoid these fallacies in order to make a strong, persuasive argument. By staying focused on the facts and avoiding personal attacks or misrepresentations, you can demonstrate the value of your proposal in a clear and compelling way.

1. Acknowledge the opponent’s views: Acknowledging your opponent’s views can help to build credibility and create a sense of respect. Even if you disagree with their position, try to understand their perspective and acknowledge the points that they make..
2. Provide alternative evidence or counter-examples: Providing alternative evidence or counter-examples can help to strengthen your argument and refute counter-arguments. Use relevant facts, statistics, or examples to support your position and show why your argument is more persuasive.

By using these strategies, you can effectively defend your argument and persuade others to see things your way. Remember to stay calm and composed, and to avoid getting defensive or emotional. By remaining confident and logical, you can effectively defend your argument and convince others to accept your position.

Dealing with emotional reactions

Presenting and defending an argument can be an emotional process, for both the writer and the audience.

Here are some tips for managing emotional reactions:

1. Stay calm and respectful: If you encounter emotional reactions during your p, it’s important to stay calm and respectful. Avoid getting defensive or angry, and try to remain objective and rational in your responses.

An interesting example is if you are presenting an argument in a forum online, and a member of the audience replies to your statement with a personal attack or insult. In this situation, it can be tempting to respond with a similar attack or to become defensive, but this will only escalate the situation and detract from the argument being presented. Instead, you should calmly address the interruption and steer the conversation back to the topic at hand. For example, you could say something like, “I understand that this is a sensitive topic, but let’s focus on the facts and evidence at hand to have a productive discussion.” By staying calm and respectful, you can maintain credibility and effectively defend your position.

1. Use empathetic language: Using empathetic language can help to defuse emotional reactions and create a sense of understanding. Show that you understand the emotions of the audience or your opponent, and use language that demonstrates your empathy and compassion.

A good example is when you are discussing a controversial topic such as sex work. Instead of using language that might be perceived as attacking or dismissive, use empathetic language that acknowledges the emotional weight of the issue for both sides. For instance, saying “I understand that this is a deeply personal and emotional issue for many people” can help to create a more respectful and productive conversation, rather than immediately diving into arguments and counter-arguments.

1. Recognize and address underlying issues: Sometimes, emotional reactions can be a sign of underlying issues that are not directly related to your argument. If you sense that there are deeper emotions or issues at play, try to address these concerns in a respectful and empathetic way.

An interesting example is when engaged in a thread on a controversial topic, a member in the group becomes obviously upset and begins to stack your point. Instead of ignoring or dismissing their reaction, the writer takes a moment to acknowledge their emotion and asks if they would like to share their concerns. The group member then explains that they have personal experience with the issue at hand and feel that their perspective has been ignored. The writer reads mindfully and responds with empathy, acknowledging the validity of their experience and promising to consider it in their argument. By addressing the underlying issue and showing empathy, the speaker is able to defuse the emotional reaction and create a more constructive discussion.

1. Take a break if necessary: If emotions become too heated, it may be necessary to take a break and regroup. Allow time for both yourself and the other to calm down, and resume the discussion when emotions have subsided.

Overall, by managing emotional reactions in a calm and respectful manner, you can create a more productive and effective discussion. Remember that emotions are a natural part of the human experience, and that acknowledging and addressing them can lead to better communication and understanding.

Conclusion
At its core, effective argumentation is about more than just winning a debate or proving a point. It’s about building trust, fostering understanding, and working towards common goals.

By approaching argumentation with an open mind and a willingness to listen and learn, we can create more meaningful and productive discussions, and ultimately make better decisions.

And always remember that the key to effective argumentation is not just about winning, but about finding common ground and moving forward together.

I got lost at Defending.
Redneck rules:
KISS (Keep it Simple Stupid)
The best defence is to go on the offence.
Rednecks have guns.

I think I get enough socialist spewing mumbo-jumbo woke left wing shit from the press and media these days. People have been disagreeing since the beginning of time. Telling people how they should disagree or argue is like pouring gasoline on a fire and adding a box of dynamite.

For additional references look up Murphy's Law.

 

[Larry's Torch]

I think I get enough socialist spewing mumbo-jumbo woke left wing shit from the press and media these days.
(snip)

Then why keep looking at it?

 

[Bridge]

I got lost at Defending.
Redneck rules:
KISS (Keep it Simple Stupid)
The best defence is to go on the offence.
Rednecks have guns.

I think I get enough socialist spewing mumbo-jumbo woke left wing shit from the press and media these days. People have been disagreeing since the beginning of time. Telling people how they should disagree or argue is like pouring gasoline on a fire and adding a box of dynamite.

For additional references look up Murphy's Law.

You may be missing the underlying plea for civility, tolerance, and respect

 

[westwoody]

Schools used to teach debating.
It not only taught how to advocate for something, it taught how to see flaws in other arguments.
“Truthiness” is a statement that sounds agreeable, or more importantly conforms to what the recipient wants to hear. But the statement is actually false on closer inspection.

 

[westwoody]

I got lost at Defending.
Redneck rules:
KISS (Keep it Simple Stupid)
The best defence is to go on the offence.
Rednecks have guns.

I think I get enough socialist spewing mumbo-jumbo woke left wing shit from the press and media these days. People have been disagreeing since the beginning of time. Telling people how they should disagree or argue is like pouring gasoline on a fire and adding a box of dynamite.

For additional references look up Murphy's Law.

Case in point.

 

[OF_manager]

Schools used to teach debating.

They still do.

 

[carvesg]

Based on the arguing that we often see in the heated threads here on Perb like the political ones and SW point of views a lot of people have forgotten the content of what they were thought in school and especially about the Graham's Hierarchy of disagreement pyramid; also known under different versions depending of the language we were taught .

Keep in mind that Perb is quite more civilized than Terb and Merb but we still reach the bottom of the pyramid often in those heated threads.

We were always taught the person who throws the first insult automatically loose the debate.

 

[white Ninja]

I expect to receive mounds of ridicule for posting this, but even if one person learns from it, it’ll be worth receiving all the hate I’m opening myself up to. If it’s what we all want, perhaps we’d build a healthier community here that is more inviting to less confident people in real need of help and guidance, rather than frighten them away for fear of being shamed, ridiculed or otherwise dismissed with literally ZERO empathy or compassion, especially when making themselves vulnerable with authentic sharing about their personal concerns.

A little mercy can go a long way. Life is tough out here for some of us, and this is a new world for many, so I encourage all of us to try to treat everyone as well as we might request of them when suggesting they see your favorite new provider.

🙏🏼🫶🏼🪷

Defending the argument

Defending your argument is just as important as presenting it. Here are some strategies for effectively defending your argument:

1. Use evidence and logical reasoning: Evidence and logical reasoning are key to making a strong argument. Use relevant facts, statistics, and examples to support your position, and use logical reasoning to connect your evidence to your main claim

By using evidence and logical reasoning, you can build a convincing argument that is grounded in facts and reason.

1. Anticipate objections: Anticipating objections can help you to prepare effective counter-arguments. Put yourself in the shoes of your opponent and try to think of potential objections or counter-arguments they may raise. Be prepared to address these objections with evidence and logical reasoning.
2. Avoid fallacies: Fallacies are errors in reasoning that can weaken your argument. Common fallacies include ad hominem attacks, straw man arguments, and false dichotomies. Be aware of these fallacies and avoid them in your argument.

Here are some examples:

• Ad hominem: Attacking the character or personal traits of your opponent instead of addressing their argument.
• Straw man: Misrepresenting your opponent’s argument in order to make it easier to attack.
• False dichotomy: Presenting only two options when there are actually more.

In any context, it’s important to avoid these fallacies in order to make a strong, persuasive argument. By staying focused on the facts and avoiding personal attacks or misrepresentations, you can demonstrate the value of your proposal in a clear and compelling way.

1. Acknowledge the opponent’s views: Acknowledging your opponent’s views can help to build credibility and create a sense of respect. Even if you disagree with their position, try to understand their perspective and acknowledge the points that they make..
2. Provide alternative evidence or counter-examples: Providing alternative evidence or counter-examples can help to strengthen your argument and refute counter-arguments. Use relevant facts, statistics, or examples to support your position and show why your argument is more persuasive.

By using these strategies, you can effectively defend your argument and persuade others to see things your way. Remember to stay calm and composed, and to avoid getting defensive or emotional. By remaining confident and logical, you can effectively defend your argument and convince others to accept your position.

Dealing with emotional reactions

Presenting and defending an argument can be an emotional process, for both the writer and the audience.

Here are some tips for managing emotional reactions:

1. Stay calm and respectful: If you encounter emotional reactions during your p, it’s important to stay calm and respectful. Avoid getting defensive or angry, and try to remain objective and rational in your responses.

An interesting example is if you are presenting an argument in a forum online, and a member of the audience replies to your statement with a personal attack or insult. In this situation, it can be tempting to respond with a similar attack or to become defensive, but this will only escalate the situation and detract from the argument being presented. Instead, you should calmly address the interruption and steer the conversation back to the topic at hand. For example, you could say something like, “I understand that this is a sensitive topic, but let’s focus on the facts and evidence at hand to have a productive discussion.” By staying calm and respectful, you can maintain credibility and effectively defend your position.

1. Use empathetic language: Using empathetic language can help to defuse emotional reactions and create a sense of understanding. Show that you understand the emotions of the audience or your opponent, and use language that demonstrates your empathy and compassion.

A good example is when you are discussing a controversial topic such as sex work. Instead of using language that might be perceived as attacking or dismissive, use empathetic language that acknowledges the emotional weight of the issue for both sides. For instance, saying “I understand that this is a deeply personal and emotional issue for many people” can help to create a more respectful and productive conversation, rather than immediately diving into arguments and counter-arguments.

1. Recognize and address underlying issues: Sometimes, emotional reactions can be a sign of underlying issues that are not directly related to your argument. If you sense that there are deeper emotions or issues at play, try to address these concerns in a respectful and empathetic way.

An interesting example is when engaged in a thread on a controversial topic, a member in the group becomes obviously upset and begins to stack your point. Instead of ignoring or dismissing their reaction, the writer takes a moment to acknowledge their emotion and asks if they would like to share their concerns. The group member then explains that they have personal experience with the issue at hand and feel that their perspective has been ignored. The writer reads mindfully and responds with empathy, acknowledging the validity of their experience and promising to consider it in their argument. By addressing the underlying issue and showing empathy, the speaker is able to defuse the emotional reaction and create a more constructive discussion.

1. Take a break if necessary: If emotions become too heated, it may be necessary to take a break and regroup. Allow time for both yourself and the other to calm down, and resume the discussion when emotions have subsided.

Overall, by managing emotional reactions in a calm and respectful manner, you can create a more productive and effective discussion. Remember that emotions are a natural part of the human experience, and that acknowledging and addressing them can lead to better communication and understanding.

Conclusion
At its core, effective argumentation is about more than just winning a debate or proving a point. It’s about building trust, fostering understanding, and working towards common goals.

By approaching argumentation with an open mind and a willingness to listen and learn, we can create more meaningful and productive discussions, and ultimately make better decisions.

And always remember that the key to effective argumentation is not just about winning, but about finding common ground and moving forward together.

Great post , I will be the first to admit , very hard to do in the moment when the other person for example isn’t adhering to any of this and on top of that is just making BS lies up out of thin air .
All good reminders
Cheers

 

[masterpoonhunter]

All of these are good points but when the trolls take over threads (see the US and Canada political threads and the number of others that pop up continually), calling their shit is needed by more than one poster. And being kind or responding/arguing with them is the fuel that keeps the trolls going.

Nonetheless, it is a forum on the internet and arguing with random people seems to be something various individuals relish, so let them be I say. And deploy the ignore button.

 

[Moan For Me]

Perb was more entertaining 10+ yrs ago. Now it’s catered to a more let’s just say “fragile” crowd. Fun to check in once in a while but overall boring. Now we get threads of : if an SP compliments me does that mean she likes me…. yes dude 100% she loves you.

 

[Drjohn]

All of these are good points but when the trolls take over threads (see the US and Canada political threads and the number of others that pop up continually), calling their shit is needed by more than one poster. And being kind or responding/arguing with them is the fuel that keeps the trolls going.

Nonetheless, it is a forum on the internet and arguing with random people seems to be something various individuals relish, so let them be I say. And deploy the ignore button.

Calling people that disagree with you "trolls" is just lazy.

Not a good look.

 

[carvesg]

Calling people that disagree with you "trolls" is just lazy.

Not a good look.

Keep in mind that he did not name anyone .

And past arguments in other threads do not have to dictate this one

 

[freakydeaky1]

It takes a lot of effort to continually lead by example, it’s hard, but I try not to take anything too personally. Hurt people hurt people right? It’s not really about me.

Poking fun at those courageous enough to be vulnerable and open up here, who are perhaps deeply lonely men in a lot of pain that isn’t of their own making and come here for support; who are seeking any kind of connection to help with loneliness, self-loathing, despair and isolation; who are perhaps at risk in myriad of ways, to themselves or the world, is pretty awful.

Why not approach things from that perspective - how can I help rather than how can I belittle someone’s pain or confusion so I can feel better about myself?

I highly recommend the r/SexWorkers + r/AskAnEscort sub for a more mental health + compassionate support side of this hobby / profession and the things that come up for people. It’s a much wider net but I’ve personally found some threads there much more helpful and civil - not to downgrade the helpfulness of this community either - its just a bit different.

The mantalks podcast with Conner Beaton might be good for some of us well, if we are ready to truly wake up and get free of our own BS conditioning and the ‘be a man’ box....

 

[masterpoonhunter]

Calling people that disagree with you "trolls" is just lazy.

Not a good look.

I rest my case.

 

[bruce.pepper]

The mantalks podcast with Conner Beaton might be good for some of us well, if we are ready to truly wake up and get free of our own BS conditioning and the ‘be a man’ box....

That guys got some pretty serious accusations against him....

 

[freakydeaky1]

dang, really? i wish i didn't know that. are they accusations or facts? i couldn't find anything.
does that mean his attachment repair work is invalid? i personally found some things extremely illuminating and insightful about my personal situation.

i hope they are just accusations, but then again, no one is infallible. i suppose i'd rather learn something from someone who has made mistakes but is also trying to help others.