I sometimes wish I was a practising Christian

[SirJimmy]

Because then I could go to sleep at night believing that God would condemn evil like Nandini Jha to BURN IN HELL FOR ETERNITY. Unfortunately, I am an atheist, so I am burdened with the knowledge that there is no heaven or hell -- just a man made legal system. And that Canadian legal system has sentenced her to serve a measly 10 years in a cushy women's-only jail for repeatedly brutalizing her own toddler daughter until she finally died. After that, tax payers will pay her airfare back to India where she will, no doubt, continue to victimize lower caste women with impunity.

We have a large Indian community in the Lower Mainland. And I know some of you are PERB members. I have a number of Indian friends, so don't call me racist, but your community really needs to join us in the 21st century when it comes to loving our daughters as much as we love our sons. I have no doubt that if the child was not a girl, she would be alive today. Why have parties/religious events when a son is born, but not when a daughter is born? My friends, you really need to change.


http://www.torontosun.com/2015/07/31/tearful-judge-sentences-killer-mom-to-10-years

...

From the bench, Justice Deena Baltman sentenced Nandini Jha to a stiff 10 years for beating her young daughter to death in 2011. And as she read her 20 pages of reasons for rendering her decision, going over the tot’s horrific injuries, the judge paused often and long as the tears welled in her eyes and her voice threatened to quiver.

....

“The aggravating facts here are numerous. First, Niyati was a young and helpless child. Not even four years old, she was powerless to defend herself or get someone to help her,” Baltman said, her voice trembling. “The one effort she made to get help — through the insightful and caring neighbours upstairs — was to no avail. She was utterly vulnerable.

“Second, Niyati was killed by her own mother. This crime was a betrayal of the most sacred bond of trust and care that should exist between a parent and child.”

.... and repeatedly beat the second with such force that her small broken body was riddled with old and new skull fractures, a broken rib, a fractured vertebrae, recent and healing bruises on her arms and thighs. Her final brain injury was like that seen in children who’ve been in high-speed car accidents.

With barely concealed disgust, the judge dismissed Jha’s feeble excuses. No bookcase fell on her child. This was no accident.

Her head was swollen to the size of a football, brain matter oozed from her ear. The unconscious Niyati was rushed to Sick Kids Sept. 20, 2011. “She was declared brain dead the next day,” Baltman said, “two days shy of her fourth birthday.”

We all struggled with our tears then, but even more when she recalled how the upstairs neighbours described overhearing Niyati plead with her mother. “I will be a good girl, I will listen to you,” she begged, “but you won’t hit me right?”

....

​

 

[Lo-ki]

Very sad story...

 

[hornygandalf]

This makes me sick. Some people just shouldn't be parents. Yes, the sentence is too short.

 

[clu]

The thing that riles me even more about this story is that she claimed a bookcase fell on the child. So not only an abuser but a coward and a hypocrite because I doubt she would have been merciful if the child had committed such a boldface lie to escape punishment.

 

[dazedandconfused]

This makes me sick. Some people just shouldn't be parents. Yes, the sentence is too short.

What do you think is the appropriate sentence?

 

[vancity_cowboy]

This makes me sick. Some people just shouldn't be parents. Yes, the sentence is too short.

What do you think is the appropriate sentence?

even shorter...

about 10 feet of rope :frusty:

 

[rick hunter]

This is very sad but what did caste or gender of the victim have anything to do with what she did? According to the link, she was angry about living in Canada and seemed to have taken her anger out on her daughter. Are you saying that child abuse doesn't occur in other group? Also Child Services didn't do it's job properly either, there was a complaint filed by the upstairs neighbours and someone signed off on a cursory visit.

 

[frisky business]

This is very sad but what did caste or gender of the victim have anything to do with what she did? According to the link, she was angry about living in Canada and seemed to have taken her anger out on her daughter. Are you saying that child abuse doesn't occur in other group? Also Child Services didn't do it's job properly either, there was a complaint filed by the upstairs neighbours and someone signed off on a cursory visit.

I agree. Something in this horrible story doesn't add up. I think it would take an insane amount of conditioning for a mother to override her maternal instinct to protect her young. Nevermind beat her own daughter to death.

I hope someone is looking into the bigger picture.

 

[SirJimmy]

What do you think is the appropriate sentence?

More years than a man would get if he repeatedly beat his wife with no intention to kill, but she eventually dies from her injuries. Two or three year old children are truly defenseless.

If a man was convicted of such as a crime, you can pretty much guarantee that his cellmates would make his life in jail a living hell once they learned the nature of his crime.

The problem here is that she will be in a woman's jail. Women are incapable of vengeance (except against boyfriends and husbands). I doubt she will suffer a single beating, or even a slap to the face, while in jail.

And to think, we men face 5 years in jail (a harsh men's jail) if we choose to pay an adult woman $250 to have sex with us. Yup, she is only 2 times worse than we are in the eyes of Canadian law. I read somewhere that Canada does not have a "justice" system, but a "legal" system. I agree.

 

[hornygandalf]

What do you think is the appropriate sentence?

That is a difficult one to answer, as my initial response was a knee-jerk reaction, but I think it is a much more complex situation than the story indicates.
For a mother to do that suggests a mental health issue. And there doesn't seem to be any remorse. Bizarre. And then you look at the family response... something cultural here I suspect where they have closed ranks, but really! There is more than the mother at fault here, although that doesn't diminish her responsibility at all.
Ten years suggests something shorter with parole. I'd say ten years if there was no parole, but she was institutionalised in a mental health institution and had intensive intervention on that side (and I don't mean drugs). But, maybe she is simply a psychopath and should be locked up in a normal prison. At the end of the day, I'm not in a place to make that judgement.

 

[leoghaire]

what bothers me most is that we are going to pay for her to be in prison for years and then send her back. Why don't we start with the deportation

 

[dazedandconfused]

That is a difficult one to answer, as my initial response was a knee-jerk reaction, but I think it is a much more complex situation than the story indicates.
For a mother to do that suggests a mental health issue. And there doesn't seem to be any remorse. Bizarre. And then you look at the family response... something cultural here I suspect where they have closed ranks, but really! There is more than the mother at fault here, although that doesn't diminish her responsibility at all.
Ten years suggests something shorter with parole. I'd say ten years if there was no parole, but she was institutionalised in a mental health institution and had intensive intervention on that side (and I don't mean drugs). But, maybe she is simply a psychopath and should be locked up in a normal prison. At the end of the day, I'm not in a place to make that judgement.

Actually, psychopathy is a mental illness, which by your definition would warrant institutionalization and intensive intervention (but no drugs)

But 10 years, you have to be joking.

 

[76duster]

The problem here is that she will be in a woman's jail. Women are incapable of vengeance (except against boyfriends and husbands). I doubt she will suffer a single beating, or even a slap to the face, while in jail.

.

Let's cut this white knight stuff out, ok? Really, women are incapable of vengeance??? What do you think motivated this woman to kill her child? Was it not vengeance for her unhappiness? Do you really think, that motherhood being this holy grail that it is for women, that when this child killer goes to jail, the other women won't beat the living shit out of her for killing a child? Because they're incapable of vengeance?? Good grief.

 

[76duster]

For a mother to do that suggests a mental health issue. And there doesn't seem to be any remorse. Bizarre. And then you look at the family response... something cultural here I suspect where they have closed ranks, but really! There is more than the mother at fault here, although that doesn't diminish her responsibility at all.
Ten years suggests something shorter with parole. I'd say ten years if there was no parole, but she was institutionalised in a mental health institution and had intensive intervention on that side (and I don't mean drugs). But, maybe she is simply a psychopath and should be locked up in a normal prison. At the end of the day, I'm not in a place to make that judgement.

You say she has a mental health issue because a mother can't possibly be in her right mind to kill a child? She's not mental. She has a conscience which she fully chose to ignore because she was being selfish. That's what very selfish people do - contravene their own moral sense. She doesn't need intervention. Even psychopaths have consciences though it may appear they don't. They clearly know the difference between right and wrong, it's just that they don't care. And yes, we can judge this individual - what she did was heinous, it was murder of a child, and she deserves far worse than what we gave her - and we gave her such a lenient sentence probably because:

1) she's a woman and we have this stupid idea to treat women nicely instead of as equals, and ...

2) we have this stupid idea that a woman wouldn't kill her child unless she was crazy, therefore not fully her fault that she has a mental issue, so we take away her agency and don't really blame her - in fact, she knows the difference between right and wrong but chose to ignore that.

 

[sybian]

I think perhaps the approach to this topic veiwing it through religion, or even culture, may give the subject a point of view that has nothing to do with it.
It is within all of us to protect the defenceless, and innocent.......It is an instinct deeply rooted within our DNA,in order for our species to survive.
In the natural world, in a herd or pack, that if the female of the species was to commit Infanticide, that member of that society would be killed, or at least forced out of the protection of the numbered clan.
What this woman did was not natural, and we have a problem with the terms and length of time ,she has been sentenced, to remove her from our Society.
We as human beings, struggle with the two sides of ourselves in how to deal with an individual like this....We want to rid ourselves and our more primitive side, of the clear danger she is to our children...Our Human, or civilized side, struggles with what we should do with her.
Yet both sides of us agree on one common thing...There must be consequences for her actions, as she took the life of a innocent defenceless child.

 

[hornygandalf]

Well said Sybian. Summed up nicely.

 

[take8easy]

I think it is sickening, the incident, that is.

Mothers that I have known, in OUR INDIAN culture would give up anything to protect their children. (Motherly instincts are given to females by nature, I strongly believe.) So please......

Keep race out of it. Because if you do, someone out there is going to start quoting the cases where "Non-Indians" were found to be guilty of child abuse. ( I am an Indian by race, so may be I am biased, I would like to think I am not but.. you are free to interpret).

We are quick to jump to conclusions. Do not let one incident form you an opinion. If you start doing that, you are going to end up hating every race, gender, ethnicity, nationality and so on.

I don't want to get into an argument so let us leave the race, religion and culture out of it and I will gladly join you in discussion about parents who need mental help.

Cheers.

 

[hornygandalf]

I think it is sickening, the incident, that is.
....
I don't want to get into an argument so let us leave the race, religion and culture out of it and I will gladly join you in discussion about parents who need mental help.

Cheers.

I think most of those posting in this thread will agree with you. This incident has nothing to do with race, religion or culture... this is about one sick individual.

 

[sevenofnine]

In a sense I think every sort of crime can be put down to some sort of mental or emotional problems.
I never really understood violence to be perfectly honest for me violence especially murder, its automatic there is a mental problem emotional problem.

I also don't believe in punishment or revenge, but I think I have the right to go about my life and we don't punish people but we protect people from those that would do them harm.
My father was in jail twice and like most criminals I don't think he was sorry, he was sorry he got caught but that's it. He was just wired that way he really couldn't comprehend what he did and that it was so wrong, thus to me he was sort of mentally ill.

An interesting discussion on nature nurture, sorry I can't remember the doctor's name but he said there is a thing called consciousness we really don't understand it but it gives us a choice, we make choices to end up where we are in life.

He said while its true most people who are abusive were abused themselves, but no one really says the second part of this, and that most abused people never go on to abuse anyone they live perfectly normal and healthy lives. But no one really talks about that,

As the Christian part, as a Catholic revenge is mine said the lord. and we are told to believe that all you have to do is ask for forgiveness and all is forgiven, so Hitler could be in heaven Stalin Jeffery Dalmer Robert pickton when the time comes etc etc.
Christians are a very forgiving and merciful lot actually in theory any way not practice.

Kind of makes me not want to go to heaven actually if Hitler is there etc,