Asian Fever

HST - how are you planning to vote?

mikej

Member
Dec 22, 2004
48
11
8
it will hurt us in dealing with alta, ont. que and the marintines if we vote out the hst. it will hurt our exports. it will hurt the film industry. it will hurt us tax payers in paying back 1.5 billion and the cost to set it up again. it will hurt the poor in losing the hst grant. it will benefit the rich because they buy more goods that would be subject to hst and not pst. it will hurt the senoirs cause they don't buy things with labour and the extra 7%. and it will hurt business who pay for your jobs so you have income that you can afford to poon. i could go on but i doubt you people that vote no think about things like that. you would rather cut off your nose to spite your face.

mike
 

wilde

Sinnear Member
Jun 4, 2003
3,036
44
48
I agree with you in part, however, I disagree with your last point. Basic necessities like food should carry little to no tax. We all have to consume these as a need to live. The question should put to the public, what things should and shouldn't be exempt. If you put too many taxes on things people won't be able to spend, therefore they can't consume and the government gets no tax dollars at all and business fail or have to reduce themselves in order to operate. The rich need to be taxed the most because at the end of the day, their quality of life will not be affected to any real extent. Think about it: If you taxed some person making $250,000 a year an extra $5000, it won't affect them all that much. They will still be able to buy a car and pay their bills and buy their groceries. If you tax someone making $50,000 and extra $1000, they will definitely fell more of a pinch, especially if they are supporting a family.

The rich, represent a very small part of the consumer market in terms of numbers. Economies are always at their strongest when the middle class is secure because they represent the majority of consumers. Make it easy for them to consume and businesses and governments will see the dollars rolling in. taxing everything is not the way to do that.
Thanks for agreeing with most of my points. Under the current GST/HST legislation, basic necessities such as food, shelter (residential rent), prescribed medication, medical services and insurance (along with other things) are exempt from GST/HST. With consumption taxes like the GST/HST, the more you spend the more you pay. People who can least afford to pay taxes can avoid consumption taxes by spending less whereas they won't be able to do the same with income based taxes. That was my point.:)
 

wilde

Sinnear Member
Jun 4, 2003
3,036
44
48
The referendum question will be:

Are you in favour of extinquishing the HST and reinstating the PST in conjunction with the GST?

Some people have indicated they will vote no because they are against the HST, well voting no will get you the exact opposite result!

It's a resounding NO for me, I hope you will vote with your brain not your heart.
 

kodiak_bear3

Active member
Jun 23, 2005
174
37
28
The issue is a political trick

The top 5% by income account for 37% of total consumer spending. The top 20% account for 60% of total consumer spending. Since HST is not applied to rent and food, who do you think is going to pay most of the tax increase?

If the NDP had been in power they would have introduced the HST. The Liberal had made electoral promises and later they have changed their mind. We have to admit though that Liberals had to tackle the most catastrophic financial meltdown in history, with a hard economic recession that cut down government revenues. Can we really blame the Liberals for breaking their electoral promise?

Now... here is the political trick: the NDP have pushed the government to call for a referendum and hope for a result against the HST. If they succeed, the Liberal government will face a dilemma:
a) keep the HST with modifications
b) go back to a GST+PST system

If (a) they keep the HST with modifications at the following political elections the NDP will have an easy issue to try to unseat the Liberals;

If (b) they go back to GST+PST, they will face the biggest budget deficit of our history, having to repay $1.6B to the federal government and missing the extra income from the HST. They will have to raise other taxes and cut services badly. Again plenty of room for the NDP to unseat the Liberals.

A convinced NDP supporter doesn't need to care if the HST is right or wrong, he will vote the referendum with a political agenda.
Anybody else should be very careful how to cast his/her ballot... it could trigger unwanted reactions.

By the way, the report written by the independent panel can be read here
 

Cock Throppled

Well-known member
Oct 1, 2003
4,926
832
113
Upstairs
The feds will never, ever ask for the bribe to be repaid.

Crusty just blew a $1.7 billion hole in the budget with the "fix", plus she has made spending announcements the last few weeks totalling about $500 million. Where's all the money coming from? Easy - the "fix" will never be implemented.

The Liberals themselves said it was a bad tax before the last election, now it's the saviour of the province.
They lie thru their asses so much how can anyone believe them?
 

aznboi9

Don't mind me...
May 3, 2005
1,380
3
38
Here Be Monsters
The feds will never, ever ask for the bribe to be repaid.
The Conservatives just going to walk away from 1.6 billion after getting nothing for it? I find that hard to believe.

Crusty just blew a $1.7 billion hole in the budget with the "fix", plus she has made spending announcements the last few weeks totalling about $500 million. Where's all the money coming from? Easy - the "fix" will never be implemented.
So they're not going to reduce the tax to 10% as they promised after making it the centre piece of their sell? Again, I find that hard to believe.

The Liberals themselves said it was a bad tax before the last election, now it's the saviour of the province.
They lie thru their asses so much how can anyone believe them?
From what I recall in an interview with Carol Taylor, the issue wasn't that they believed that it was a bad tax. The issue was a fear of a loss of provincial independence by having their taxes now being collected and controlled by the federal government instead of themselves.
 

chicas

New member
Apr 30, 2010
52
0
0
Mb. (not wpg)
GST, HST I don't give a FCK. It all amounts to who you trust. I have no problem with taxes, but I have no trust in the federal conservatives. It appears to me like they wish to hurt people that I like and respect, and only because it is profitable for them on the short term. I have most everything that I want but I don't want a goverment that restricts freedoms.
Christ how much do we need before we want to share? IMHO there is way more satisfaction in shareing than there is in restriction in others freedoms. Feel free to correct me.
 

Cock Throppled

Well-known member
Oct 1, 2003
4,926
832
113
Upstairs
I bet if HST (Humping Sucking Tax) was applied directly to SP services a lot of you would change your minds.

It still might affect pooning since all personal expenses will go up for SP's, so they might have to raise rates.
 

whoisjohngalt

Member
Aug 4, 2009
147
1
18
Vancouver area
Still waiting for ONE reasonable argument on why the PST is better than the HST...

Since none are forthcoming, I will address what I consider to be one of the biggest ones. It is argued that the PST is better because it doesn't apply to as many items, services and restaurant meals being the most notable. While on the surface this may seem appealing to the consumer, we have to consider the larger picture. If we are going to impose a tax, I believe that fairness requires that the tax be as universal as possible, with very few exemptions and special rules. Why should restaurant meals be exempt from sales tax? Everyone should have to pay their share. We do exempt basic groceries but restaurant meals are a luxury, not a necessity of life. Same goes for services, there is no valid reason that they should be exempt from the sales tax. Income is income, consumption is consumption and all should be taxed in the same manner otherwise we end up with a system where powerful lobby groups are able to achieve tax exemptions (always in the name of the public good mind you) and the rest of us have to pay that much more tax to compensate.
 

wilde

Sinnear Member
Jun 4, 2003
3,036
44
48
I bet if HST (Humping Sucking Tax) was applied directly to SP services a lot of you would change your minds.

It still might affect pooning since all personal expenses will go up for SP's, so they might have to raise rates.
Technically, SPs provide a service which is a taxable supply under the GST/HST legislation. They are required to register once their taxable supply reaches $30K in a year. Most don't.

What if they repeal the HST went back to the PST and slapped it on pooning (Pooning Surtax)?
 

whoisjohngalt

Member
Aug 4, 2009
147
1
18
Vancouver area
Wow. I can't believe that the populace is almost evenly divided on this issue. It seems like the government could say that they want to take 70% of our income... and eventually we would all be ok with it :(

If the government stopped spending money on ridiculous things then there there would be no "need" for such cash grabs.

Off topic - but the olympics cost such a huge amount of money. We are all still paying for it. Really.... is Vancouver ANY better for it? I think not.

lol That's my little rant. I think I woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning....
I don't know you personally but I think it is safe to assume that a significant number of SPs are not reporting all of their self employment income so I don't think they are in a position to be complaining about taxes. If you are one of the few who does then please disregard my comment.

As for the HST being a cash grab - it is not in the sense that it will result in huge government surpluses. It is an attempt to collect taxes in a more efficient manner that does less harm to the economy. If the HST ends up resulting in more taxes being collected (which is the long term expectation), then tax rates in other areas can be reduced, once we have the budget back in balance that is.
 

FunSugarDaddy

New member
Aug 15, 2008
1,110
5
0
I haven't read the comments but being in the financial/accounting services I recall my telling many clients that if the government had introducted the HST at 10% rather than 12% and hadn't blindsided people with it there'd never had been a problem.

I still think the same. Now they're suggesting they'll gradually move towards 10% but it's at a lot slower pace than I would like, so I'm a bit on the fence with how'd I vote. I like the concept of the HST, as it's less work from a business owner/bookkeeping point of view, one less report to sent in, one less audit to worry about and certainly it should allow for the overall costs of administration to be lower.

On the flip side, I do think trying to raise revenues, rather than control spending, especialy on pensions etc. is a mugs game. Ideally, I would like to see all governments move towards compensating their employees the same as the private sector, as I don't believe getting a government job should equate to winning a lottery.
 
Nov 10, 2004
38
0
6
Victoria
I think people voting against the HST are voting with their emotions. People who support the HST are basing it on logic.

The Liberal's really F'ed this up from day one and that, IMO, is the biggest issue. You cant trust them. I'm disappointed that Christy Clarke did not make more changes to get the HST through. Having said that, I support the HST and I will never vote NDP.
 

testudo

New member
Mar 6, 2005
26
0
1
I will vote against HST at this time . Don't forget the carbon tax which was brought by the Liberal. Liberal is not working for us and listening to us ..They need to take this as a lesson.
 

Cock Throppled

Well-known member
Oct 1, 2003
4,926
832
113
Upstairs
Don't forget we are voting for a 12% HST.

The reductions to 11% and 10% are promises - nothing more and don't kick in for 1 & 2 years, if ever.

So remember - you are voting to keep the HST at 12% for now and the rest you have to trust the Liberals.

Also - look at every other province with an HST - they are all about 13%. Guess how long those reductions to 10% would last if they ever were implemented? Once it's in, it's in for good and can only go up.
 

wilde

Sinnear Member
Jun 4, 2003
3,036
44
48
Don't forget we are voting for a 12% HST.

The reductions to 11% and 10% are promises - nothing more and don't kick in for 1 & 2 years, if ever.

So remember - you are voting to keep the HST at 12% for now and the rest you have to trust the Liberals.

Also - look at every other province with an HST - they are all about 13%. Guess how long those reductions to 10% would last if they ever were implemented? Once it's in, it's in for good and can only go up.
Need I remind you that the GST dropped from 7 to 5% as promised. Granted this is the provincial Liberals but to not keep this promise to reduce the HST to 10% in 2 years would be the ultimate political suicide.

Statistics have also shown that a reduction in rate does not necessarily translate to a reduction in revenue, more often than not, the revenue actually increases.
 

Cock Throppled

Well-known member
Oct 1, 2003
4,926
832
113
Upstairs
How far do we get pushed before we say we're mad as hell and not going to take it any more?

Ask yourself when we were ever asked to determine our tax system or any decision for that matter? This is historic - the only time in Canada, probably the only time in our lifetime we can make a government do what we want rather than what they tell us.

The video promoting the HST cherry picked points and ignored the fact we don't manufacture that many finished goods for domestic market.

Look at Europe - their VAT's have been part of their economic destruction. They all started at 8-9% and now some of them are over 20%. It's easy for a politician to say the rate will go up 1% every few years and before you know it we're in 20% range.

The VAT's have spurred huge underground economies and to make up for lost revenue governments have had to keep jacking up the VAT rates.

And remember, the PROMISE to reduce the HST to 10% in three years is a Liberal PROMISE - about as reliable as a fart in a windstorm.

The same people that promised:

- not to introduce the tax before the last election - A Lie.

- The tax would be revenue neutral - A Lie.

- Consumer prices would drop when business savings were passed on - A Lie.

- Jobs would be created - A Lie. We've lost jobs.

- The economy would be stimulated - A Lie. We're lagging behind provinces without the HST

- We will have to pay back $1.6 billion to the feds - A Lie. We haven't even been given the full amount yet and we haven't begun to bargain. In any event - they have collected in the first year enough to pay back what's owed.

- Telling us (with our own money) the HST will be cheaper at 10% - A Lie. 10% (if it ever happens) of everything costs a whole lot more than12% of a few things. And an HST, once in place has nowhere to go but up.
 

wilde

Sinnear Member
Jun 4, 2003
3,036
44
48
How far do we get pushed before we say we're mad as hell and not going to take it any more?

Ask yourself when we were ever asked to determine our tax system or any decision for that matter? This is historic - the only time in Canada, probably the only time in our lifetime we can make a government do what we want rather than what they tell us.

The video promoting the HST cherry picked points and ignored the fact we don't manufacture that many finished goods for domestic market.

Look at Europe - their VAT's have been part of their economic destruction. They all started at 8-9% and now some of them are over 20%. It's easy for a politician to say the rate will go up 1% every few years and before you know it we're in 20% range.

The VAT's have spurred huge underground economies and to make up for lost revenue governments have had to keep jacking up the VAT rates.

And remember, the PROMISE to reduce the HST to 10% in three years is a Liberal PROMISE - about as reliable as a fart in a windstorm.

The same people that promised:

- not to introduce the tax before the last election - A Lie.

- The tax would be revenue neutral - A Lie.

- Consumer prices would drop when business savings were passed on - A Lie.

- Jobs would be created - A Lie. We've lost jobs.

- The economy would be stimulated - A Lie. We're lagging behind provinces without the HST

- We will have to pay back $1.6 billion to the feds - A Lie. We haven't even been given the full amount yet and we haven't begun to bargain. In any event - they have collected in the first year enough to pay back what's owed.

- Telling us (with our own money) the HST will be cheaper at 10% - A Lie. 10% (if it ever happens) of everything costs a whole lot more than12% of a few things. And an HST, once in place has nowhere to go but up.
There you have it folks, the gospel according to some guy by the name of Cock Throppled. Unfortunately, his gospel is full of his opinions rather than facts. And you know what they say about opinions...

I don't want to influence how anyone vote but I hope people will based their decision for the right reasons. If you want to punish the Liberals, save it for the election. Vote yes if you truly believe the old GST and PST regime is better than the HST. Vote no if you truly belive the HST is better than the old GST and PST regime. Educate yourself before you make your decision. Check out the Independent Panel Report here:http://www.hstinbc.ca/making_your_choice/independent_panel/ If you are too busy to read 20 odd pages, here is the summary:

REPORT SUMMARY

The choice you face on the HST and PST/GST is a big one. It comes down to balancing the savings you and your family will get by going back to the PST against the longer-term economic benefits that staying with the HST will bring British Columbians in the years ahead.

The immediate impact of the HST on your family pocketbook is clear.

Unless you are among the 15 per cent of families with an income under $10,000 a year, you’re paying more sales tax under the HST than you would under the PST/GST: On average about $350 per family.

And that doesn’t include the HST you will pay on occasional, big-ticket items like buying a newly built house or putting on a new roof, which are no longer exempt from the PST.

If you vote to go back to the PST/GST, all those added sales tax costs would disappear. You will have more money in your pocket.

That decision, however, has longer term consequences.

Going back to the PST/GST means turning away from the gradual future economic benefits expected with the HST. Those include a simpler sales tax system now used by more than 140 other countries and a more competitive economy, where goods and services are cheaper to produce, boosting our exports, attracting investment and creating better-paying jobs.

Our panel acknowledges it’s hard to put concrete numbers to these future benefits. However, our independent analysis predicts staying with the HST will mean a B.C. economy in 2020 that will:
• Be $2.5 billion larger than it would be under the PST. That’s about $480 per person or $830 per family.
• Produce $1.2 billion more in the export of goods and services.
• Create an additional 24,400 better-paying jobs.

In the context of a $200-billion economy, these are important—albeit modest — benefits. But they will make B.C. more competitive in the global marketplace.

Your decision also has serious ramifications for the provincial budget.

The HST taxes the growing part of our economy — services — and will provide extra revenue to fund hospitals, schools, roads and other important public services you rely on. In contrast, moving back to the PST/GST will likely mean refunding the federal government $1.6 billion in transition money and, in the first year alone, put a $531-million hole in the provincial budget. It’s not a simple choice before you. Our independent panel has given you the best overview we could to weigh the arguments. Now it’s your decision.
 

Cock Throppled

Well-known member
Oct 1, 2003
4,926
832
113
Upstairs
What facts are wrong?

You actually TRUST the Liberal government?

I run small businesses and yes, the HST makes bookkeeping easier. It does not save me money, but it does cost me customers.
 
Vancouver Escorts