Harper and His Band of Power Hungry Zealots

[Lesbian Hunter]

Tuesday, December 02, 2008
The Harperites Are Misrepresenting Our System of Government

In a bid to save their government from defeat and prevent its replacement by a Liberal-NDP coalition with the support of the Bloc, Stephen Harper and his operatives are trying to sell the public a false view of how our system of government works.

It begins with the bogus proposition that Stephen Harper and the Conservatives “won” the recent election and have a mandate to govern.

In fact, in the recent election, the Conservatives won a minority of seats in the House of Commons, 143 out of 308.

Our system of government, known as “responsible government”, holds that for a ministry to hold office it must enjoy the confidence of the House of Commons, i.e. the support of the majority of the members of the House.

In Canada, we do not directly elect our prime minister. The prime minister is an elected member of the House of Commons (in theory, he or she could be a Senator, but this has happened only twice, the last time under Mackenzie Bowell from 1894 to 1896.) The Governor General asks the leader of the political party that commands the support of the majority in the House to form a government. In the case of a minority parliament, the critical issue is which party or combination of parties can command the support of the majority in the House.

Yesterday, when the leaders of the Liberals, NDP and the Bloc, whose parties hold the majority of seats in the House announced their intention to defeat the Harper government and replace it with a Liberal-NDP coalition government with the support of the Bloc, they were playing out their roles within the system of responsible government. And since this move comes early in the new parliament and holds out the promise of stable government for at least the next eighteen months, it is almost certain that the Governor General will call on the coalition to form a government once the Conservatives have been defeated. (The Governor General does have some discretion here, under the rubric of royal prerogative, but considering how recent the election was, it is highly unlikely that she would accede to a request by Stephen Harper to dissolve parliament to call another election.)

The Conservatives are appearing on news shows, talk shows and are organizing rallies putting out the word that what is happening in Ottawa is an attempted “coup”. At the centre of this inane claim is the proposition that Canadians just re-elected Stephen Harper as prime minister and that he has a mandate to govern.

It is true that the Americans directly elect their president and therein lies much of the confusion that is being stirred up by furious Conservatives over their punch bowls. The American Constitution (in my view grounded on a poor understanding of Montesquieu and the British Constitution following the Glorious Revolution of 1688) rests on the notion of “separation of powers”. The Executive Branch, the Legislative Branch (Congress) and the Judicial Branch each occupy their own hermetically sealed space and are protected from undue interference with each other much the way Vestal Virgins were protected in Ancient Rome. To their credit, the Americans have managed to make this ungainly system work with only one Civil War marring its record to date.

The Canadian prime minister is not a quasi-king in the manner of the American president. He or she rises or falls depending on the votes of the majority in the House of Commons. That is what is going on here. What is coming to an end is the rule of a prime minister who thought he was a king. What is coming is a government that actually represents the views of the majority of the members of the House, and for that matter the majority of voters in the recent election.

James Laxer is a Professor of Political Science at York University in Toronto.

 

[littlejimbigher]

The Liberals and NDP total 113 seats. The Bloc is not to be part of the government but only will not vote against a confidense motion.
The Conservatives have 143 seats. That's 30 more than the the other 2 combined.
This is a COUP!
If they want to bring down the government and have another election then I would be unhappy but could live with the results. Doesn't matter which parties were elected because thats the Canadian democratic way.
Not some COUP.

And especially when so many Canadians totally rejected Dion.

 

[HB40]

Yesterday, when the leaders of the Liberals, NDP and the Bloc, whose parties hold the majority of seats in the House announced their intention to defeat the Harper government and replace it with a Liberal-NDP coalition government with the support of the Bloc, they were playing out their roles within the system of responsible government. And since this move comes early in the new parliament and holds out the promise of stable government for at least the next eighteen months, it is almost certain that the Governor General will call on the coalition to form a government once the Conservatives have been defeated. (The Governor General does have some discretion here, under the rubric of royal prerogative, but considering how recent the election was, it is highly unlikely that she would accede to a request by Stephen Harper to dissolve parliament to call another election.)

What a joke! I cannot see a coalition of three parties with different agendas creating a stable government. The Conservatives may be a minority government but they have more seats than the each of the other parties hold separately. What will happen when there is another election? Does the coalition stay together or is it back to NDP, Liberal and Bloc. Either way, the next election should bring the greatest Conservative Majority government this country has ever seen.

 

[ageek1]

I always found politics is never a good discussion as it brings up too much emotion, but let's make a few points clear. I'm not a political expert by any means, however, even though the move by the opposition party is well within the rules governing our political system, this is not a democratic process what the coalition is doing. If the coalition is successful, it will be led by a leader who received the fewest votes his party ever had and who had also agreed to step aside from his party leadership position in a few months! The other member is a left wing socialist who thinks the only way to govern is to rasie taxes on corporations and spend spend spend. The spending is not stimulus injections in to the economy but wasteful and mismanagement of our tax dollars (I won't even go into the critical auditor reports when the liberals were in power, or mention Gomery, if that's how you spell it). We have seen time and time again how NPD policies cripple economies, not improve them. As for the Bloc, why would we want to give any power to a party that has no interest in doing what is best for Canada. They are only concerned with Quebecors, no one else! Besides, how can they even be considered a national party when they don't have candidates outside Quebec??
I'll probably be trashed for the comments, but like I said, politics will always bring out strong opposing views.

 

[FunSugarDaddy]

Another vote

They should have another election, simple solution. Canadian's have a right to vote on whether or not they want the type of arrangement Dion and company are proposing.

I suspect we don't but let us decide. This certainly wasn't an option on the voting balots, during the most recent election.

Yes each time we vote it costs approximately $300M but that's a far cry from the 30B amount being proposed to prop up the economy. In fact it's about 100 times more $$.

 

[kidstone]

No this is the Canadian political system. This is how things work. And sometimes the election of functionaries in the government is indirect by the people rather than direct. The prime minister is always indirectly elected by the people. Stephan Dion won his riding, he did not stand in a country wide election for prime minister any more than Stephen Harper did. They are functionaries of their respective parties.

The Conservatives did not win the majority of the ridings, nor did they win the popular vote. The other parties collectively have more seats.

And those are the rules of the game. If Harper doesn't want to play by the rules of Canadian government, he should go to the States. And anyone else who doesn't like it can do the same.

I love my country and our political system. It isn't perfect (none are) but in its imperfections it is a vital instrument for real change in the polis.

 

[fun-time-guy]

The problem as I see it is that Canadians are not used to minority politics which is why the Conservatives will have a measure of success unleashing their spin.

The fact is that the proposed coalition is exactly how minority governments MUST work - the problem is that Dion and Layton figured that out before Harper. Had the Conservatives approached this Parliament with a measure of humility after receiving their minority mandate none of this would have happened.

Canadians should expect the House of Commons to function well - that was clearly not going to work under the Conservatives with the approach that they took. The coalition has proposed a working agreement to consolidate majority support so that Parliament can function effectively. Time will tell whether they are successful but there is not valid argument against their ability to try.

Harper will no doubt request to prorogue Parliament in a last ditch attempt to avoid his self-inflicted fate, an action which I find much more objectionable than any other issue in this mess. I look forward to the flurry of rhetoric and misinformation that the Conservatives will unleash in the coming days and weeks beginning tonight when the current Prime Minister makes his national address.

FTG

 

[hunsperger]

The Liberals and NDP total 113 seats. The Bloc is not to be part of the government but only will not vote against a confidense motion.
The Conservatives have 143 seats. That's 30 more than the the other 2 combined.
This is a COUP!

exactly...

Layton and Dion are nothing but power hungry asswipes...

hopefully it blows up in their face...

BTW, who the hell is James Laxer, and WTF is political science...

 

[Avery]

Tuesday, December 02, 2008
The Harperites Are Misrepresenting Our System of Government

In a bid to save their government from defeat and prevent its replacement by a Liberal-NDP coalition with the support of the Bloc, Stephen Harper and his operatives are trying to sell the public a false view of how our system of government works.

It begins with the bogus proposition that Stephen Harper and the Conservatives “won” the recent election and have a mandate to govern.

In fact, in the recent election, the Conservatives won a minority of seats in the House of Commons, 143 out of 308.

Our system of government, known as “responsible government”, holds that for a ministry to hold office it must enjoy the confidence of the House of Commons, i.e. the support of the majority of the members of the House.

In Canada, we do not directly elect our prime minister. The prime minister is an elected member of the House of Commons (in theory, he or she could be a Senator, but this has happened only twice, the last time under Mackenzie Bowell from 1894 to 1896.) The Governor General asks the leader of the political party that commands the support of the majority in the House to form a government. In the case of a minority parliament, the critical issue is which party or combination of parties can command the support of the majority in the House.

Yesterday, when the leaders of the Liberals, NDP and the Bloc, whose parties hold the majority of seats in the House announced their intention to defeat the Harper government and replace it with a Liberal-NDP coalition government with the support of the Bloc, they were playing out their roles within the system of responsible government. And since this move comes early in the new parliament and holds out the promise of stable government for at least the next eighteen months, it is almost certain that the Governor General will call on the coalition to form a government once the Conservatives have been defeated. (The Governor General does have some discretion here, under the rubric of royal prerogative, but considering how recent the election was, it is highly unlikely that she would accede to a request by Stephen Harper to dissolve parliament to call another election.)

The Conservatives are appearing on news shows, talk shows and are organizing rallies putting out the word that what is happening in Ottawa is an attempted “coup”. At the centre of this inane claim is the proposition that Canadians just re-elected Stephen Harper as prime minister and that he has a mandate to govern.

It is true that the Americans directly elect their president and therein lies much of the confusion that is being stirred up by furious Conservatives over their punch bowls. The American Constitution (in my view grounded on a poor understanding of Montesquieu and the British Constitution following the Glorious Revolution of 1688) rests on the notion of “separation of powers”. The Executive Branch, the Legislative Branch (Congress) and the Judicial Branch each occupy their own hermetically sealed space and are protected from undue interference with each other much the way Vestal Virgins were protected in Ancient Rome. To their credit, the Americans have managed to make this ungainly system work with only one Civil War marring its record to date.

The Canadian prime minister is not a quasi-king in the manner of the American president. He or she rises or falls depending on the votes of the majority in the House of Commons. That is what is going on here. What is coming to an end is the rule of a prime minister who thought he was a king. What is coming is a government that actually represents the views of the majority of the members of the House, and for that matter the majority of voters in the recent election.

James Laxer is a Professor of Political Science at York University in Toronto.

James Laxer? The guy who was a member of the NDP Waffle wing 30 or 40 years ago? He was so far left, even the mainstream NDPers didn't want him. Compared to him, Karl Marx was a right-winger.

Surely you could have found a more credible source than James Laxer to back up your views!

 

[hunsperger]

I always found politics is never a good discussion as it brings up too much emotion, but let's make a few points clear. I'm not a political expert by any means, however, even though the move by the opposition party is well within the rules governing our political system, this is not a democratic process what the coalition is doing. If the coalition is successful, it will be led by a leader who received the fewest votes his party ever had and who had also agreed to step aside from his party leadership position in a few months! The other member is a left wing socialist who thinks the only way to govern is to rasie taxes on corporations and spend spend spend. The spending is not stimulus injections in to the economy but wasteful and mismanagement of our tax dollars (I won't even go into the critical auditor reports when the liberals were in power, or mention Gomery, if that's how you spell it). We have seen time and time again how NPD policies cripple economies, not improve them. As for the Bloc, why would we want to give any power to a party that has no interest in doing what is best for Canada. They are only concerned with Quebecors, no one else! Besides, how can they even be considered a national party when they don't have candidates outside Quebec??
I'll probably be trashed for the comments, but like I said, politics will always bring out strong opposing views.

actually, you make more sense than James Laxer and all the other psuedo-intellectuals...

 

[hunsperger]

James Laxer? The guy who was a member of the NDP Waffle wing 30 or 40 years ago? He was so far left, even the mainstream NDPers didn't want him. Compared to him, Karl Marx was a right-winger.

Surely you could have found a more credible source than James Laxer to back up your views!

what a surprise...

actually I should afford the man more respect because he is a scientist (rolleyes)...

 

[HeMadeMeDoIt]

The Liberals and NDP jumping in bed together doesn't surprise me, considering that Dion was taking his last kick at the office of PM. He not only failed but almost decimated the Liberals in the process. Whats most disgusting and despicable about the whole Bullshit is the willingness of two mainstream parties to collude with a sovereignest party (BQ) that aims at splitting our country apart. Personally I see both Layton and Dion's actions as treasonous.

Treason: In law, treason is the crime that covers some of the more serious acts of disloyalty to one's sovereign or nation or those that undermine the continued existance of country as a whole and sovereign nation.

Lesbian Hunter: You should really re-consider who should be viewed as the "power hungry zealots" in light of your POS NDP and Liberals' willingness to betray their country just to steal power from the on party most Canadians voted for. I am sure that given what those two parties are planning they'd get handed their assholes on a platter in another election. I would venture to guess it would probably wipe out both parties (good riddance)

 

[hunsperger]

Whats most disgusting and despicable about the whole Bullshit is the willingness of two mainstream parties to collude with a sovereignest party (BQ) that aims at splitting our country apart. Personally I see both Layton and Dion's actions as treasonous.

yes, yes...

anybody who votes for these two power hungry jackasses in the future is pathetic...

 

[FunSugarDaddy]

What arrogance?
Cutting taxpayer financed subsidies to politcal parties? Cutting subsidised food and beverages on Parliment Hill? Putting a TEMPORARY freeze on strikes by our overpaid civil service until the ecomony recovers?
You mean having the BALLS to finally say enough to all the feeding at the public trough the Liberals and the NDP are used to.
All this bitching and whining about democracy is nothing more than the Liberals and the NDP wanting their taxpayer funded handouts. As a small businessman I wish I could rely on the public purse to balance my books at the end of the year.
I guarantee you that if the "Economic Update" that has stimulated this entire ruckus, had included cuts affecting the Canadian public, aside from a few sound bites, the Liberals and NDP wouldn't give a flying F**K!
If the Liberal or NDP finances are in a shambles maybe their members could make a donation instead of whining for more of my money.

It was arrogant in the fact he didn't have a majority government and thus he wasn't in a position to push these type of changes through parliament. I personally like these changes, but the timing was wrong. Had he won a majority he could have done this, but the fact is he didn't.

I don't like what the opposition is doing, and I did vote for the conservatives, which for me is rather unusual, but Harper definately brought this whole thing on himself, and he should have been smart enough to know this could potentially be the consequence of what he was attempting to do, which was to pass legislation he knew was not only unsupportable by the opposition, it was an out and out attack on their viability.

How the hell else did he expect them to react?

Did he honestly think they would vote for their own demise??

It's really one of the biggest miscalculations in recent memory, and is right up there with Joe Clark's miscalculation back when Trudeau and company were around.

So even though I hope the opposition is unsuccessful in their attempt to take over the government, it was a needless and confrontational act by Harper that precipitated the whole thing.

 

[ageek1]

I agree that Harper did bring this on himself, but the other leaders also should not that the conservatives received the most votes from all the parties, that is democracy and that is what the canadian people voted. I hope there is another election and the conservatives win a majority, although maybe without Harper.

BTW...the Canadian economy grew last quarter!

 

[ShyMike]

God now I know why I don't vote, It wouldn't of matter anyway. I think if the Bloc whats to rule a country then take Quebec and rule it. I can only see this getting worst for the dollar and the economy if the gov't is unstable. Wow its like a bunch of little kids try to be the king of the castle. Oh don't worry about the people that got you into gov't they want this, yea I don't thing so. Maybe we should be more like the states and have elections every four years. Fuck Im so tired of this shit.

 

[BDAClub]

My 2 cents on Coalition Governments

This is all I have to add to the discussion:



"Having decided that the Detroit Redwings technically won the 2008 Stanley Cup, the Pittsburgh Penguins, Philadelphia Flyers and Dallas Stars have formed a coalition demanding a three way ownership of the league title.

Rational for their decision revolves around their total combined scoring in the 2008 Semi-Finals, their total share of season ticket holders versus the Detroit Redwings and their horror at discovering the Detroit Redwings are using a more cost effective and efficient but non-union made Silver polish to keep the Stanley Cup gleaming.

The three teams are being assisted in their bid to overturn the traditional results by members of the Quebec Hockey League who have no real interest in the success of the NHL in general but sense an opportunity to demand Zamboni's and other critical equipment be manufactured in Quebec. Player representatives, Team Owners and Nike are expected to submit their proposals to Don Cherry in the next few days.

Fans and ticket holders are neither being asked or allowed a voice in the final decision."


Now what does the above have to do with what's going on in Ottawa??


Nothing but it makes about as much sense as what those 3 asshats are trying to pull.....Harper is going to get this delayed until the end of January and by then all the children won't be friends anymore and that will be the end of it

 

[ageek1]

This is all I have to add to the discussion:



"Having decided that the Detroit Redwings technically won the 2008 Stanley Cup, the Pittsburgh Penguins, Philadelphia Flyers and Dallas Stars have formed a coalition demanding a three way ownership of the league title.

Rational for their decision revolves around their total combined scoring in the 2008 Semi-Finals, their total share of season ticket holders versus the Detroit Redwings and their horror at discovering the Detroit Redwings are using a more cost effective and efficient but non-union made Silver polish to keep the Stanley Cup gleaming.

The three teams are being assisted in their bid to overturn the traditional results by members of the Quebec Hockey League who have no real interest in the success of the NHL in general but sense an opportunity to demand Zamboni's and other critical equipment be manufactured in Quebec. Player representatives, Team Owners and Nike are expected to submit their proposals to Don Cherry in the next few days.

Fans and ticket holders are neither being asked or allowed a voice in the final decision."


Now what does the above have to do with what's going on in Ottawa??


Nothing but it makes about as much sense as what those 3 asshats are trying to pull.....Harper is going to get this delayed until the end of January and by then all the children won't be friends anymore and that will be the end of it

Had to laugh out loud, well done! I don't think it could have been put any better way!

 

[TheGuy]

Every single one of them are playing political games instead of dealing with real and very serious issues - we should bring the Queen back to run things - Old Liz would kick some ass in Ottawa!

 

[CJ Tylers]

"We respectfully point out that the opposition parties, who together constitute a majority in the House, have been in close consultation. We believe that, should a request for dissolution arise this should give you cause, as constitutional practice has determined, to consult the opposition leaders and consider all of your options before exercising your constitutional authority,"

Now, before you blast me for posting up whining, coalition rhetoric...just know that this is from a letter written to the Governor General in 2004, by then Opposition Leader Stephen Harper... in cahoots with the bloc to bring down the Martin government.

A little article by a conservative newspaper...

Now, I don't recall anyone demonizing him for doing it then, so there shouldn't be any issues now.