Gorean Lifestyle?
- Thread starter Savage
- Start date
If you're thinking about following it around here it's a waste of time, not that many people into it. Like chevy, I read the series when they came out and while the first few where somewhat interesting, later books basically became manuals on female submission and punishment. In essence this was the goal of the series, a way of publishing books on BDSM. Had he just written about BDSM, most of the books would never have made it to market. I had the entire original series, got rid of them a couple years ago. Collectors paid $25.00 and up for paperbacks that originally cost $.75 to $1.25 new.
A lot of people that were into light BDSM saw this as a way of being more open about the practice. I've been at a couple of get togethers in the States that run over long weekends and they are a lot of fun. Cosplay + bondage, eat like barbarians an drink like sailors on shore leave.
A lot of people that were into light BDSM saw this as a way of being more open about the practice. I've been at a couple of get togethers in the States that run over long weekends and they are a lot of fun. Cosplay + bondage, eat like barbarians an drink like sailors on shore leave.
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Yep. Bondage novels, packaged as sword-and-sorcery fantasy works so that they were available for sale in normal bookstores. Female characters all come to realize that their true nature is to submit to their masters, e.g., an independent working woman from earth is kidnapped to Gor, and is able to find her true happiness.
Majority of the folks I've met frown on the Gorean lifestyle since many "well known" male dominants who espouse the whole Gorean concept come off as misogynist. The Peter Hayes case didn't help, as the whole Vancouver BDSM community has tried to distance themselves from the shit storm he created.
Hi Savage:
I had a long post written out but it didn't take. I'll do a short one for now and may do a fuller one later. First, Gor is often misrepresented in the media and the uneducated. Too often people do not look at the whole picture. For now, Gor is often mistaken to be nothing more than BDSM. It is not. Yes, it does contain elements of it, or more accurately D/s. But it is more than that. It's over riding theme is about the philosophical idea of "natural order". Its secondary themes are of honour, and morality. And it contains the philosophies of stoicism and pantheism among other things. It takes us back to the age of the hunter societies - with a twist to do relay the over riding theme of natural order in adventure novels akin to Edgar Rice's Tarzan novels. Natural order is primarily relayed through the idea of men being Masters and women being slaves. Men are inherently the dominant of the species and women are inherently the submissive - or weaker physically of the species. And too, this more so in the past, when Norman first started writing the novels in the 60's. In today's day and age of equality, feminism, and technology, males have lost their maleness to varying degrees and females have lost their femaleness to varying degrees. Norman over states this point obviously to make his point. But if you think about you can get what he's getting at. Too often in todays dating for example you are not quite sure about how to act because the roles are less clearly defined.
People who partake of the Gor ideas can fall under three groups in a nutshell:
1
Those that seek to bring more to their D/s relationships.
2.) Those that seek to gain the philosophical ideas expressed (that have nothing what so ever to do with what we know as BDSM).
3.) Those that seek to roleplay the ideas of Gor as expressed in the Gor books. There used to be a strong following online of Gor roleplayers, but I think its less prevalent today. Those that did or do this are heavily into the sword play element and slave serving.
1.) A few good sites to get started if really interested:
These two are actually the only two sanctioned by John Norman and the people involed know their Gor inside and out.
http://www.worldofgor.com/
http://gorchronicles.com
John Norman himself taught philosophy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Norman
2.) Read a few books. You can pick ip second Gor books at the Comic and Book Emporium on Broadway about a hallf a block west of Granville.
Because Gor espouses ideas of natural order, honour, live by honourable codes, morality, etc., the intent is to live a better life honouring yourself and others.
A few quotes.
Honour:
But, why? I asked myself. Should not, rather, one be more ashamed by deceit than the truth? Can there truly be a greater honor in hypocrisy than in honor? It does not seem so.
Guardsman of Gor, pg. 257
Stoic thought:
"But I think I would now chose to do that action which I would be willing that I should do again and again with each turning of the wheel. I would chose so to live that I might be willing that I should live that life a thousand times, even forever. I would chose so to live that I might stand boldly with my deed without regret throughout eternity."
Priest Kings of Gor, pg. 315-316.
"Do not ask the stones or the trees how to live; they cannot tell you; they do not have tongues; do not ask the wise man how to live, for, if he knows, he will know he cannot tell you; if you would learn how to live do not ask the question; its answer is not in he question but in the answer, which is not in words; do not ask how to live, but, instead, proceed to do so."
The full quote
The Goreans have very different notions of morality from those of Earth.
Yet who is to say who is correct?
I envy sometimes the simplicities of those of Earth, and those of Gor, who, creatures of their conditioning, are untroubled by such matters, but I would not be as either of them. If either should be correct it is for them no more than a lucky coincidence. They would have fallen into truth, but to take truth for granted is not to know it. Truth not won is not possessed. We are not entitled to truths for which we have not fought.
Do we not learn to live by doing, as we learn to speak by speaking, to paint by painting, to build by building?
Those who know best how to live, sometimes it seems to me, are those least likely to be articulate in such skills. It is not that they have not learned, but having learned, they find they cannot tell what they know, for only words can be told, and what is learned in living is more than words, other than words, beyond words. We can say, "This building is beautiful, " but we do not learn the beauty of the building from the words; the building is which teaches us the beauty; and how can one speak of the beauty of the building, as it is? Does one say that it has so many pillars, that it has a roof of a certain type, and such? Can one simply say, "The building is beautiful?" Yes, one can say that but what one learns when one sees the beauty of the building cannot be spoken; it is not words; it is the buildings beauty.
It goes on...
The morality of Earth, from the Gorean point of view, is a morality which would be viewed as more appropriate to slaves than free men. It would be seen in terms of the envy and resentment of inferiors to superiors. It lays great stress on equalities and being humble and being pleasant and avoiding friction and being ingratiating and small. It is a morality that is in the best interests of slaves, who would be only too eager to be regarded as equals to others. We are all the same. That is the hope of slaves; that is what it is in their interest to convince others of. The Gorean morality on the other hand is more of inequalities, based on the assumption that individuals are not the same, but quite different in many ways. It might be said, though this is oversimple, a morality of masters. Guilt is almost unknown in Gorean morality, though shame and anger are not. Many Earth moralities encourage resignation and accomodation; Gorean morality is bent more toward conquest and defiance; Many Earth moralities encourage tenderness, pity and gentleness, sweetness; Gorean morality encourages honour, courage, hardness and strength. The Gorean morality one might ask, "Why so hard?" To these Earth moralities, the Gorean ethos might ask, Why so soft"?I have sometimes thought that the Goreans might do well to learn something of tenderness, and perhaps, those of Earth might do well to learn something of hardness. But I do not know how to live. I have sought the answers, but I have not found them. The morality of slaves says, "You are equal to me; we are both the same; the morality of masters says, "We are not equal; we are not the same; become equal to me, and then we will be the same. The morality of slaves reduces all to bondage; the morality of masters encourages all to attain, if they can, the heights of freedom. I know of no prouder, more self reliant, more magnificent creature than the free Gorean, male or female; they are often touchy, and viciously tempered, but they are seldom petty and small; more over they do not hate and fear their bodies or their instincts; when they restrain themselves it is a victory over titanic forces; not the consequences of slow metabolism; but sometimes they do not restrain themselves; they do not assume that their instincts and blood are enemies and spies, sabateurs in the house of themselves; they know them and welcome them as part of their persons.; they are as little suspicious of them as a cat of its cruelty; or the lion of its hunger; their desire for vengeance, their will to speak out and defend themselves, their lust, they regard as intrinsically and gloriously a portion of themselves as their hearing or their thinking. Many Earth moralities make people little; the object of Gorean morality, for all its faults, is to make people free and great. These objectives are quite different it is clear to see. Accordingly, one would expect that the implementing moralities would, also be considerably different.
I sat in the darkness and thought on these things. There were no maps for me.
I, Tarl Cabot, or Bosk of Port Kar, was torn between two worlds.
I did not know how to live.
I was bitter.
But the Goreans have a saying, which came to me in the darkness, in the hall. "Do not ask the stones or the trees how to live; they cannot tell you; they do not have tongues; do not ask the wise man how to live, for, if he knows, he will know he cannot tell you; if you would learn how to live do not ask the question; its answer is not in he question but in the answer, which is not in words; do not ask how to live, but, instead, proceed to do so."
I did not fully understand this saying. How, for example, can one proceed to do what one does not know how to do? The answer, I suspect, is that the Gorean beleif is that one does, truly, in some way, know how to live, though one may not know that one knows. The knowledge is somehow regarded as being within one. Perhaps it is regarded as being somehow innate, or a function of instincts. I do not know. The saying may also be interpreted as encouraging one to act, to behave, to do, and then, in the acting, the doing, the behaving, to learn. These two interpretations, of course, are not incompatible. The child, one supposes, has the innate disposition, when a certain maturation level is attained, to struggle to its feet and walk, as it did to crawl, when an earlier level was attained, and yet it truly learns to crawl, and to walk, and then to run, only in the crawling, in the walking and the running.
The refrain ran through my head. "Do not ask how to live, but instead, proceed to do so".
Marauders of Gor, pages7-10.
Lastly, the world of Gor is actually based upon Earth societies and cultures of old. For example:
Ar = Roman Empire
Torvaldsland = Vikings.
Nomads = Mongols
etc.
There are real earth ideas expressed and there is no sorcery involved. Yes, it can be too over the top and too many sensationalize it and don't really get the true meaning of it.
I had a long post written out but it didn't take. I'll do a short one for now and may do a fuller one later. First, Gor is often misrepresented in the media and the uneducated. Too often people do not look at the whole picture. For now, Gor is often mistaken to be nothing more than BDSM. It is not. Yes, it does contain elements of it, or more accurately D/s. But it is more than that. It's over riding theme is about the philosophical idea of "natural order". Its secondary themes are of honour, and morality. And it contains the philosophies of stoicism and pantheism among other things. It takes us back to the age of the hunter societies - with a twist to do relay the over riding theme of natural order in adventure novels akin to Edgar Rice's Tarzan novels. Natural order is primarily relayed through the idea of men being Masters and women being slaves. Men are inherently the dominant of the species and women are inherently the submissive - or weaker physically of the species. And too, this more so in the past, when Norman first started writing the novels in the 60's. In today's day and age of equality, feminism, and technology, males have lost their maleness to varying degrees and females have lost their femaleness to varying degrees. Norman over states this point obviously to make his point. But if you think about you can get what he's getting at. Too often in todays dating for example you are not quite sure about how to act because the roles are less clearly defined.
People who partake of the Gor ideas can fall under three groups in a nutshell:
1
Those that seek to bring more to their D/s relationships.2.) Those that seek to gain the philosophical ideas expressed (that have nothing what so ever to do with what we know as BDSM).
3.) Those that seek to roleplay the ideas of Gor as expressed in the Gor books. There used to be a strong following online of Gor roleplayers, but I think its less prevalent today. Those that did or do this are heavily into the sword play element and slave serving.
1.) A few good sites to get started if really interested:
These two are actually the only two sanctioned by John Norman and the people involed know their Gor inside and out.
http://www.worldofgor.com/
http://gorchronicles.com
John Norman himself taught philosophy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Norman
2.) Read a few books. You can pick ip second Gor books at the Comic and Book Emporium on Broadway about a hallf a block west of Granville.
Because Gor espouses ideas of natural order, honour, live by honourable codes, morality, etc., the intent is to live a better life honouring yourself and others.
A few quotes.
Honour:
But, why? I asked myself. Should not, rather, one be more ashamed by deceit than the truth? Can there truly be a greater honor in hypocrisy than in honor? It does not seem so.
Guardsman of Gor, pg. 257
Stoic thought:
"But I think I would now chose to do that action which I would be willing that I should do again and again with each turning of the wheel. I would chose so to live that I might be willing that I should live that life a thousand times, even forever. I would chose so to live that I might stand boldly with my deed without regret throughout eternity."
Priest Kings of Gor, pg. 315-316.
"Do not ask the stones or the trees how to live; they cannot tell you; they do not have tongues; do not ask the wise man how to live, for, if he knows, he will know he cannot tell you; if you would learn how to live do not ask the question; its answer is not in he question but in the answer, which is not in words; do not ask how to live, but, instead, proceed to do so."
The full quote
The Goreans have very different notions of morality from those of Earth.
Yet who is to say who is correct?
I envy sometimes the simplicities of those of Earth, and those of Gor, who, creatures of their conditioning, are untroubled by such matters, but I would not be as either of them. If either should be correct it is for them no more than a lucky coincidence. They would have fallen into truth, but to take truth for granted is not to know it. Truth not won is not possessed. We are not entitled to truths for which we have not fought.
Do we not learn to live by doing, as we learn to speak by speaking, to paint by painting, to build by building?
Those who know best how to live, sometimes it seems to me, are those least likely to be articulate in such skills. It is not that they have not learned, but having learned, they find they cannot tell what they know, for only words can be told, and what is learned in living is more than words, other than words, beyond words. We can say, "This building is beautiful, " but we do not learn the beauty of the building from the words; the building is which teaches us the beauty; and how can one speak of the beauty of the building, as it is? Does one say that it has so many pillars, that it has a roof of a certain type, and such? Can one simply say, "The building is beautiful?" Yes, one can say that but what one learns when one sees the beauty of the building cannot be spoken; it is not words; it is the buildings beauty.
It goes on...
The morality of Earth, from the Gorean point of view, is a morality which would be viewed as more appropriate to slaves than free men. It would be seen in terms of the envy and resentment of inferiors to superiors. It lays great stress on equalities and being humble and being pleasant and avoiding friction and being ingratiating and small. It is a morality that is in the best interests of slaves, who would be only too eager to be regarded as equals to others. We are all the same. That is the hope of slaves; that is what it is in their interest to convince others of. The Gorean morality on the other hand is more of inequalities, based on the assumption that individuals are not the same, but quite different in many ways. It might be said, though this is oversimple, a morality of masters. Guilt is almost unknown in Gorean morality, though shame and anger are not. Many Earth moralities encourage resignation and accomodation; Gorean morality is bent more toward conquest and defiance; Many Earth moralities encourage tenderness, pity and gentleness, sweetness; Gorean morality encourages honour, courage, hardness and strength. The Gorean morality one might ask, "Why so hard?" To these Earth moralities, the Gorean ethos might ask, Why so soft"?I have sometimes thought that the Goreans might do well to learn something of tenderness, and perhaps, those of Earth might do well to learn something of hardness. But I do not know how to live. I have sought the answers, but I have not found them. The morality of slaves says, "You are equal to me; we are both the same; the morality of masters says, "We are not equal; we are not the same; become equal to me, and then we will be the same. The morality of slaves reduces all to bondage; the morality of masters encourages all to attain, if they can, the heights of freedom. I know of no prouder, more self reliant, more magnificent creature than the free Gorean, male or female; they are often touchy, and viciously tempered, but they are seldom petty and small; more over they do not hate and fear their bodies or their instincts; when they restrain themselves it is a victory over titanic forces; not the consequences of slow metabolism; but sometimes they do not restrain themselves; they do not assume that their instincts and blood are enemies and spies, sabateurs in the house of themselves; they know them and welcome them as part of their persons.; they are as little suspicious of them as a cat of its cruelty; or the lion of its hunger; their desire for vengeance, their will to speak out and defend themselves, their lust, they regard as intrinsically and gloriously a portion of themselves as their hearing or their thinking. Many Earth moralities make people little; the object of Gorean morality, for all its faults, is to make people free and great. These objectives are quite different it is clear to see. Accordingly, one would expect that the implementing moralities would, also be considerably different.
I sat in the darkness and thought on these things. There were no maps for me.
I, Tarl Cabot, or Bosk of Port Kar, was torn between two worlds.
I did not know how to live.
I was bitter.
But the Goreans have a saying, which came to me in the darkness, in the hall. "Do not ask the stones or the trees how to live; they cannot tell you; they do not have tongues; do not ask the wise man how to live, for, if he knows, he will know he cannot tell you; if you would learn how to live do not ask the question; its answer is not in he question but in the answer, which is not in words; do not ask how to live, but, instead, proceed to do so."
I did not fully understand this saying. How, for example, can one proceed to do what one does not know how to do? The answer, I suspect, is that the Gorean beleif is that one does, truly, in some way, know how to live, though one may not know that one knows. The knowledge is somehow regarded as being within one. Perhaps it is regarded as being somehow innate, or a function of instincts. I do not know. The saying may also be interpreted as encouraging one to act, to behave, to do, and then, in the acting, the doing, the behaving, to learn. These two interpretations, of course, are not incompatible. The child, one supposes, has the innate disposition, when a certain maturation level is attained, to struggle to its feet and walk, as it did to crawl, when an earlier level was attained, and yet it truly learns to crawl, and to walk, and then to run, only in the crawling, in the walking and the running.
The refrain ran through my head. "Do not ask how to live, but instead, proceed to do so".
Marauders of Gor, pages7-10.
Lastly, the world of Gor is actually based upon Earth societies and cultures of old. For example:
Ar = Roman Empire
Torvaldsland = Vikings.
Nomads = Mongols
etc.
There are real earth ideas expressed and there is no sorcery involved. Yes, it can be too over the top and too many sensationalize it and don't really get the true meaning of it.
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Gor vs BDSM
Hi Savage:
I thought I'd give you a bit more info that relates more directly to your question.
Like the others here I have to admit, I got tired of them, but do still have some books. I'm much more into the type of quotes I posted above - and I do have more quotes like that. The earlier books didn't really dwell on slavery and all that it encompasses compared to the later books. It got to the point where you feel like you're being knocked over the head with these long dissertations on slavery.
When people think about it, you can see how male/masculine/Master/Dominant and female/feminine/slave/submissive archetype(s) relate to what Jung called the collective unconscious. I lot of males fantasized about being Tarl types. And similarly, its fair to say that females fantasized about the romantic aspects of Gorean slavery.
Put another way, I think a lot of people here would at least have a fantasy - or reality based thought about escorts vs say wives. Wives say being how Norman portrays modern earth women and escorts as how Norman portrays slave girls - sexual beings. And part of being a slave is serving the master in all ways - sexually -like you envision an escort or say is stripper. It relates to your base instincts. But you have to make a distinction between the real world and its morality and laws that we live in and only bring in the Gor elements in your relationships say, that can be compatible.
Google Gor vs BDSM if you like.
But I'll leave you with a couple of sites.
1.) This is an excellent site by Luther and contains numerous topics.
http://www.gor-now.net/delphius2002/id3.htm
Below is a section on Gor vs BDSM by Luther:
http://www.gor-now.net/delphius2002/id150.htm
2.)http://tor-tu-gor.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=13&Itemid=34
Maybe too, since you are, as you say yourself, "on the fringe of BDSM", look more closely into BDSM, contemplate what it is that is truly for you and what you really seek to enhance your life and your own relationships.
Added:
I would also recommend taking a look at his "Imaginative Sex".
1.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imaginative_Sex
2.) http://www.gor-now.net/delphius2002/id136.htm
Hi Savage:
I thought I'd give you a bit more info that relates more directly to your question.
Like the others here I have to admit, I got tired of them, but do still have some books. I'm much more into the type of quotes I posted above - and I do have more quotes like that. The earlier books didn't really dwell on slavery and all that it encompasses compared to the later books. It got to the point where you feel like you're being knocked over the head with these long dissertations on slavery.
When people think about it, you can see how male/masculine/Master/Dominant and female/feminine/slave/submissive archetype(s) relate to what Jung called the collective unconscious. I lot of males fantasized about being Tarl types. And similarly, its fair to say that females fantasized about the romantic aspects of Gorean slavery.
Put another way, I think a lot of people here would at least have a fantasy - or reality based thought about escorts vs say wives. Wives say being how Norman portrays modern earth women and escorts as how Norman portrays slave girls - sexual beings. And part of being a slave is serving the master in all ways - sexually -like you envision an escort or say is stripper. It relates to your base instincts. But you have to make a distinction between the real world and its morality and laws that we live in and only bring in the Gor elements in your relationships say, that can be compatible.
Google Gor vs BDSM if you like.
But I'll leave you with a couple of sites.
1.) This is an excellent site by Luther and contains numerous topics.
http://www.gor-now.net/delphius2002/id3.htm
Below is a section on Gor vs BDSM by Luther:
http://www.gor-now.net/delphius2002/id150.htm
2.)http://tor-tu-gor.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=13&Itemid=34
Maybe too, since you are, as you say yourself, "on the fringe of BDSM", look more closely into BDSM, contemplate what it is that is truly for you and what you really seek to enhance your life and your own relationships.
Added:
I would also recommend taking a look at his "Imaginative Sex".
1.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imaginative_Sex
2.) http://www.gor-now.net/delphius2002/id136.htm
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I was going to leave it at that, but I came across this recent interview with John Norman aka Dr. Lange in the form of questions and answers. A few of you may find it interesting. It is quite in depth and somewhat biographical. But there is a small section of relevance to the question posed by Savage of which I'll post below:
John Norman, the philosophy professor who created the barbaric world of Gor
Have you spent any time among the Gorean communities on the internet, such as Second Life? What do you think of the popularity of real-life Gorean slavery among some people in the BDSM community?
No. I am not a computer person. I am, so to speak, still trying to figure out quill pens. I have heard of Second Life, but know very little about it. I have heard that large numbers of my books have been "pirated," so to speak, and distributed freely in that community. I am disappointed that individuals would do that, if they are doing that. Let us hope that that claim is mistaken. If individuals do care for an author, and his work, it seems to me they should, in respect, refrain from such a practice. Intellectual property is property, after all, as much as a baseball glove or a bicycle.
I know nothing about "real-life Gorean slavery among some people in the BDSM community." The "BDSM" reference worries me. I dissociate myself from BDSM, at least as I understand it. I may, of course, misunderstand it. I wonder if one would settle merely for "real-life Gorean slavery," because, as I understand it, BDSM is not Gorean. If something is not beautiful, it is not Gorean. In any event, I am assuming that what is involved here, in any case, is consensual. If a woman chooses to submit herself, voluntarily, to a master, it seems to me that is her business, and his business. She would then, of course, be a slave, and would be treated as a slave. One supposes remarkable fulfillments may occur in such an arrangement. It is, of course, important to treat the slave, however uncompromisingly strict you are with her, however much she might fear you, in a humane way, as one would any other animal. Some men, I gather, dislike women, and enjoy hurting them. That makes no sense to me. Women are wonderful, and precious. It is a delight to own one; why would one hurt her? What would be the point of that, mere sadistic pleasure? I think we might distinguish between, say, S/M sex, or sadomasochistic sex, and M/S sex, or Master/Slave Sex. In a sense they seem opposite. Love is important. It is not to be confused with cruelty. Gratuitous cruelty seems to me uncalled for, and ugly, morally and aesthetically. Too, it seems unworthy of a true master. The point is loving and serving, and owning and mastering, not hurting. To be sure, the slave must understand that if she is not pleasing, she is subject to discipline. She is not to be left in doubt that she is a slave. It is easy to avoid discipline; she need only be obedient, submissive, and found pleasing, wholly, and in all ways. Sometimes a slave may desire to be reassured of her bondage. There are many ways in which the master, if he wishes, may see to this. I have written an entire book, the Imaginative Sex book, in which my views on such matters should be reasonably clear.
http://io9.com/#!5783833/john-norman-the-philosopher-who-created-the-barbaric-world-of-gor17,823 views, Mar 22, 2011 4:15 PM
John Norman, the philosophy professor who created the barbaric world of Gor
Have you spent any time among the Gorean communities on the internet, such as Second Life? What do you think of the popularity of real-life Gorean slavery among some people in the BDSM community?
No. I am not a computer person. I am, so to speak, still trying to figure out quill pens. I have heard of Second Life, but know very little about it. I have heard that large numbers of my books have been "pirated," so to speak, and distributed freely in that community. I am disappointed that individuals would do that, if they are doing that. Let us hope that that claim is mistaken. If individuals do care for an author, and his work, it seems to me they should, in respect, refrain from such a practice. Intellectual property is property, after all, as much as a baseball glove or a bicycle.
I know nothing about "real-life Gorean slavery among some people in the BDSM community." The "BDSM" reference worries me. I dissociate myself from BDSM, at least as I understand it. I may, of course, misunderstand it. I wonder if one would settle merely for "real-life Gorean slavery," because, as I understand it, BDSM is not Gorean. If something is not beautiful, it is not Gorean. In any event, I am assuming that what is involved here, in any case, is consensual. If a woman chooses to submit herself, voluntarily, to a master, it seems to me that is her business, and his business. She would then, of course, be a slave, and would be treated as a slave. One supposes remarkable fulfillments may occur in such an arrangement. It is, of course, important to treat the slave, however uncompromisingly strict you are with her, however much she might fear you, in a humane way, as one would any other animal. Some men, I gather, dislike women, and enjoy hurting them. That makes no sense to me. Women are wonderful, and precious. It is a delight to own one; why would one hurt her? What would be the point of that, mere sadistic pleasure? I think we might distinguish between, say, S/M sex, or sadomasochistic sex, and M/S sex, or Master/Slave Sex. In a sense they seem opposite. Love is important. It is not to be confused with cruelty. Gratuitous cruelty seems to me uncalled for, and ugly, morally and aesthetically. Too, it seems unworthy of a true master. The point is loving and serving, and owning and mastering, not hurting. To be sure, the slave must understand that if she is not pleasing, she is subject to discipline. She is not to be left in doubt that she is a slave. It is easy to avoid discipline; she need only be obedient, submissive, and found pleasing, wholly, and in all ways. Sometimes a slave may desire to be reassured of her bondage. There are many ways in which the master, if he wishes, may see to this. I have written an entire book, the Imaginative Sex book, in which my views on such matters should be reasonably clear.
http://io9.com/#!5783833/john-norman-the-philosopher-who-created-the-barbaric-world-of-gor17,823 views, Mar 22, 2011 4:15 PM
